A real disappointing conversation with PAYPAL...

[Archive]

Posted By: Lance

I recently purchased a T200 Cincy card that was admittedly auctioned in a typical "scam" setting. I honestly could not tell if it was a reprint or not from the listing. I felt secure knowing if i paid with paypal I would only be on the hook for return shipping and conformation.

WRONG! I just got off the phone with the Paypal claims department. I explained that I had tried to contact the seller about returning the card and after he didn't respond to several emails, made the Paypal claim. From what I see on the dispute board, he has not responded to Paypal, either.

In the claim, I stated the card appeared to be a reprint based on the complete absense of the glossy coating and a pen/pencil mark that was broken like a printer had made the line. Under a certain angle, you can actually see the breaks in the print. I figured a simple "not as described" would force the guy to reimburse me.

Wrong again! The Claims "Specialist" informed me that I had to provide writen proof that the card was not authentic and indeed a reprint. I said that I could do that, but it would take approximately 25-30 days with SGC round trip. I was then told that I had until 5/1/08 to provide this information. I told the rep that it would be impossible to do so. She put me on hold to see if they could allow me more time. This is where the true disappoinment starts...

First, she said she had good news..."They will grant you 3 additional days!" I again said it can not be done, with a little more sarcasm. She then proceeded to ask why not. I said there were only 3 companies in the world that would be considered "professional grading" companies and only 2 of whom I would trust. PSA & SGC. I then stated that unless I wanted to pay a rediculous amount for the rejection, the card would in the mail by the time my extension expired. She then asked, "Isn't there a local card shop that can write you a letter?"

WTF??? I asked her if she had a Monet, would you let Walmart authenticate for you? This is what you are asking me to do, i told her. "Well it seems that is your only choice or we will have to side with the seller. We can't just accept your word that it is fake."

I lost it. I went on to ask what the differance would be from my local shop stating the card was a reprint, only to have the scam artist get a buddy claim that it was real? She again had the answer..." Well, we will be sure to follow up with the referance you provide. Be sure to include the shops telephone number." Are you kidding me???????? If I give them an actual working phone number and some answers when they call, they become professional graders????

I had enough. I hung up more disappointed and discouraged than I have ever felt. It seems the scammers have found their loop-hole. It will take more time to get the real proof than Paypal is willing to allow the complaint to be open. Thank God that this was only a $59.00 loss. If nothing else, I hope I can help someone else avoid this very situation. The Ebay sellers id is: wayloucoll...in case you don't want to open the thread address.

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230239688894&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=013</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230239688894&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=013</a&gt;

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Just from the wear on the corners that reprint looks to be one of the printed ones (print dots, card stock, creases and corner wear like a normal card).

The authentic T200s are real photographs (no print dots, brittle glossy photo paper that tends to curl slightly and will craze and crack easily)

[Archive]

Posted By: peter ullman

while i see your frustration...why don't you just get a reputable person...maybe even someone from this board...to write you...better yet...fax you a letter stating it's bogus and why. If this is all that's preventing you from your $$$...WTF?

[Archive]

Posted By: Lance

I will get an accessible fax number this evening for my wife's work, if anyone or ten would be willing to put there opinion on the line.

"WTF" Sorry about the implied vulgarity....

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

Dan MCKee had a similair situation last week - see here.

[Archive]

Posted By: howard

Peter is on the money here. Paypal may well have a silly policy but if you aren't willing to do something as simple as they suggested then you have nothing to complain about.

[Archive]

Posted By: Red

All you need is a letter from any dealer stating that the card is a reprint. That's what Paypal wants to see and if you provide that they'll continue to help you try to get your money back. You don't need to pay a company to have it graded and rejected.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Newcomb

the more they scare me. I stopped using them to sell most ebay cards a while back because of all the horror stories. I know not taking them hurts my sales but it's not worth the worries.

The people who kill me are the ones (you know who you are) who b*tch about paypal and then say they won't bid on auctions that don't take it-- I know paypal is a convenience to buyers, but to me that attitude is ridiculous, just encouraging paypal to abuse sellers (and buyers, in this case) as they clearly do.

Lance, I hope you get some resolution, but it sounds like this has already given you more than $59 in aggravation.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lance

I should have stated that the whole gripe is with the fact that I was willing to pay for a professional grading company to examine the card, if they would allow the time. Time on the dispute board is free to Paypal. Paypal feels "Mickey Mouse's House of Cards" can provide the same professional opinion. What will stop the scam artists from providing the same authentication? What protection do we actually have with Paypal as buyers? I have been on the other end where a resident of Canada claimed "no receipt" and the case was closed in minutes. It seems the buying end on Ebay may become a complete mine-field in the very near future.

[Archive]

Posted By: Red

If Paypal didn't require a letter from a dealer or authenticator then any buyer could return anything they wanted to for any reason using the authenticity excuse. If a seller says no returns in his auction you are entitled to a refund if he sends you a fake card. If he calls a real card VG and you think it's only GD-VG+ you can't return it, and you can't just make up that it's fake in order to be allowed to return it. Paypal wants a letter from somebody in the business stating it's fake. The person issuing the document is responsible for the accuracy of their opinion. If it turns out the item isn't fake, and the person issuing the opinion is incorrect, then that person is legally responsible for what they stated in the letter.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lance

Again, my disappointment is not with the purchase, the $59, or even the seller at this point. It is clearly with Paypal and the fact that they refused to give me the time to have SGC verify what I know is true. Thus they will enable this scam to continue. I am not an expert level grader but I can assure you I do not have the worst set of eyes in the hobby. If all they want is an opinion from somebody in the business of selling vintage baseball cards, why wouldn't mine be worthy with a 100% seller feedback rating in 1000+ sales? I will gladly pass on to Paypal any letter, from any member of this board, that is willing to put it on letterhead acknowledging their status in the business. It can from your personal auctions, store, or Ebay member name for all it's worth. I will pass it on and see how it plays out. Even if I lose, some of you can voice your opinion to the Paypal rep that will surely call. The fax number is:

(251)621-8111 attn:Catherine Galloway or emails can be received at cvgalloway@yahoo.com

I will thank all who are willing to do this in advance.

Lance

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I am available to help in anyway but I need to see the card in person please. You can send it to me and we can go from there or, why not just return it to the seller with signature confirmation? Once he signs for it, paypal should refund you as even paypal won't allow him to keep the item and the money. That is what I did with Marketkingman a$$hole. They were investigating and said I need an expert to say it was fake and I told them that I was as good as it gets and that it was already returned and scumlife signed for it. Paypal said oh, he has it back? then I guess we can't ask you to show someone else. Well DAH! There is no where in the paypal communication to tell them you have returned the card once the claim is escalated. They have improved immensley but still need some work. Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: cmoking

Stuff like this is one reason I try to use my credit card when paying via Paypal. I know I can always go through my credit card because I can't trust Paypal in protecting me. It is funny though, to pay via your bank account at Paypal, it is quick and painless...but to use your credit card, they really want to make sure you want to use it. It takes I think three extra clicks to use a cc at Paypal compared to letting them dig into your bank account...is that enough for a class-action suit?

[Archive]

Posted By: plifter

I'll just add my sympathy and wish you well on getting this resolved. I hate scam artists. They are ruining the hobby that we all love.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lance

Mark Anderson, Director of Grading Services W/Beckett, GehrigFan on Net54, for the letter of verification. It will surely help.

Also, thank you Dan Mckee for the insight and the letter.

You both emailed in what could only be minutes after reading my post and offered help.Please, let me know if i can ever return the favor.

Lance

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

any luck?