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  #1  
Old 03-25-2023, 02:04 PM
Maxjacks Maxjacks is offline
Max Jackson
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Default Fun T206 Print Anomaly Downey Batting Tolstoi Blue Numbers on Front

Hello,

I wanted to share a special card I got in the mail today with everyone. Downey Batting Tolstoi with what appears to be numbers in blue ink on the front. The blue numbers are definitely from the printing process, and at least one other Downey Tolstoi is out there with these exact markings. I would love to hear some theories of what everyone thinks the marking are for and if anyone else has found other Tolstoi subjects with similar markings.
Had to make some edits for accuracy after new information


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Last edited by Maxjacks; 03-25-2023 at 05:26 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-25-2023, 02:05 PM
Maxjacks Maxjacks is offline
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MY theory is that these numbers are some sort of sheet designation similar to the large factory numbers that can be found on some Sweet Caporal cards
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Always looking for oddball Larry Doyle items.

Collecting New York Nationals in most Pre War sets. Especially t206 Non-Piedmont and non-sweet caporal backs.
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  #3  
Old 03-25-2023, 05:45 PM
Maxjacks Maxjacks is offline
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I wanted to do an update with a side by side of the two know copies
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Monster slain, 520/520!

Always looking for oddball Larry Doyle items.

Collecting New York Nationals in most Pre War sets. Especially t206 Non-Piedmont and non-sweet caporal backs.
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  #4  
Old 03-25-2023, 06:30 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Really cool cards. Interesting that the back print is so visible on the front from a wet sheet on both copies.

Since the posts about the large numbers on the Sweet Capitals, I have been looking for these kinds of markings on other ATC cards and turned up 0 in the world outside baseball - interesting if this is only a T206 thing as we usually see commonalities, with each series really more of 1 particular run or group of runs of what constitutes a single massive marketing project.

I would presume it is some sort of sheet designation, but my presumptions are oft wrong. I have checked my small number of Tolstoi T206s and turn up no blue markings or a small hint of one.
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  #5  
Old 03-25-2023, 08:24 PM
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Pat R Pat R is offline
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Hey Max. I have the other Downey, Luke had your example and realized that the numbers were some kind of factory stamp. He then found the 2nd example that I now have.

Both of them also have the same stray print marks on the front and back.

img437 - Copy.jpg

img438 - Copy.jpg
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  #6  
Old 03-25-2023, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
Really cool cards. Interesting that the back print is so visible on the front from a wet sheet on both copies.

Since the posts about the large numbers on the Sweet Capitals, I have been looking for these kinds of markings on other ATC cards and turned up 0 in the world outside baseball - interesting if this is only a T206 thing as we usually see commonalities, with each series really more of 1 particular run or group of runs of what constitutes a single massive marketing project.

I would presume it is some sort of sheet designation, but my presumptions are oft wrong. I have checked my small number of Tolstoi T206s and turn up no blue markings or a small hint of one.
Ronnie has a couple of T59's with similar numbers as the Downey's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
I have a couple T59 Flags with the numbers but have to dig them out to scan them. Here's a picture from the Net54 Non Sportscard side. This is not my picture.


I think there were also some non T206's with factory numbers on the back but I'm not positive. I'll have to see if I can find them (Ronnie might also have those).
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2023, 08:47 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Ronnie has a couple of T59's with similar numbers as the Downey's.




I think there were also some non T206's with factory numbers on the back but I'm not positive. I'll have to see if I can find them (Ronnie might also have those).
Thank you, it makes more sense they are found on other issues as well to differentiate sheets. They must be pretty rare, I've not found them on T59's myself and I've lost count of how many thousands I have run through.
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2023, 10:18 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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I do also have a T59 Flags card that shows a partial factory number on the bottom back of the card, similar to the T206 Sweet Caporals. It's been a few years since I've looked at it, and I'm not sure what box it's in. But when I find it, I'll share a scan of it. If I remember correctly, it's a 4th series 200 subject with a Recruit back. I have over 10k T59's and honestly haven't looked closely at the cards for sheet numbers. I just happened to notice a card one day. Here is a link with pictures of other T59's with sheet numbers.

https://forum.vintagenonsports.com/p...?highlight=t59
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2023, 10:28 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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After my last post, I remembered I also have a T58 Fish with a factory number. That one should be easier to find, because I only have a few hundred from that set. Another fun fact on the T58 Fish, half of the set can be found with upside down backs.
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T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #10  
Old 03-26-2023, 06:43 AM
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It finally dawned on me what these numbers most likely are factory and possibly district numbers.

img437 - Copy (2).jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 03-26-2023 at 06:50 AM.
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  #11  
Old 03-27-2023, 06:29 AM
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I could be wrong about the numbers on the Downey but some of the non-sport examples clearly have the factory number plus some other number on the back.

Non-sport factory sheet numbers.jpg
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  #12  
Old 03-29-2023, 07:26 AM
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Marslife Marslife is offline
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Default print mark

this one is mine, a T201 Mattern/Graham Mecca Factory 30.

mattern Graham print mark.jpg
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2023, 12:47 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marslife View Post
this one is mine, a T201 Mattern/Graham Mecca Factory 30.
I had mentioned a T59 with very similar marks and another person posted that picture of your card. I haven't figured out what box mine is in, then your picture was posted and I asked if that was a picture of my card, and they said yes, but I didn't remember making those arrows, so I figured, ok. They found the picture on the non sports site, which I am sure I shared mine there, but a search there, shows that I haven't posted at all. So I guess I still need to track down my cards with print marks.
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T206 Basic "The Monster" Set 514/524
T206 Advanced "Master Monster" Front/Back Set ????/5258
COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Old Mill Southern Leagues - Black Ink 48/48
Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30 Full Color "No Prints" 28/28
NEAR COMPLETE T206 BACK SUBSETS
Polar Bear 245/250
Sovereign 460 50/52
Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 649 Overprint 31/34
Piedmont 350 "Elite 11" 9/11

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  #14  
Old 03-31-2023, 01:09 PM
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Leon Leon is offline
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Very cool blue numbers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxjacks View Post
I wanted to do an update with a side by side of the two know copies
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  #15  
Old 03-31-2023, 03:57 PM
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Is it possible the liithographer was marking off every time they ran 1000 sheet batches?

Last edited by toppcat; 03-31-2023 at 04:26 PM.
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