List of known Red HINDU's....can you add any new ones ?

[whitehse]

[QUOTE=Chicago206;801758]If I bought that card (and I dont have that type of money), the very first thing I would do is to try to have it honestly analyzed for authenticity. I dont have the information on who/how this could be done, but I think there has to be some way to do so. If there isnt, then whats the point of ever buying another high dollar card ever again, right? I dont think I could ever be comfortable with such a card if even the slightest doubt was in the deepest region of my subconscience. Wouldnt you want it examined extensively for your own peace of mind?[/QUOTE]


Not AFTER I buy it!

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

If I bought that card (and I dont have that type of money), the very first thing I would do is to try to have it honestly analyzed for authenticity.

If I were thinking of spending that kind of money, I would make every effort to assure its authenticity BEFORE i drop the cash... Penny wise and pound foolish. I think everyone here would agree it is better to find out before and save yourself the money then to find out after and lose your investment.

[Chicago206]

Verify before you buy it? Good idea, and im sure REA wouldnt mind you taking the card for a few weeks prior to auction. Who do I ask for when I call them with this minor request?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by E93

Jim VB,
I am pretty sure the owner of the "Authentic" Plank/Piedmont that appears nm/mt and comes from the same find as the Gretzky Wagner is not the owner of the Diamondbacks. I believe the Diamondbacks owner bought the PSA 8 Plank from Candiotti, but it originated from a different source.
JimB

Thanks Jim. I stand corrected. I knew he owned a Plank. I thought I read it somewhere, but I guess I just made the fallacious assumption, that he owned the matched set. Thanks for straightening me out.

[tedzan]

Chi206

JimVB linked to my thread in which I elaborated on my research regarding the Kimball Factory (#649 Rochester, NY) that produced
the HINDU cigarettes in order explain my skepticism regarding the red Cobb/red HINDU card. I am not the sole skeptic of the legi-
timacy of this card. I can name at least 6 veteran T206 collectors (or Ty Cobb collectors) on this forum who agree with me. (I'll let
them chime in).

Needless to say, Cobb was the most famous ballplayer of the T206 era. If you count the four Cobbs' f/b permutations in the T206
set, you'll come up with at least 55 cards. So, why were any of the four Cobb's not printed with either Brown or Red HINDU backs ?
This remains a mystery and perhaps we will never know why. Anyhow, I'm convinced it has something to do with Factory #649.

The provenance of this red Cobb/red HINDU card can be traced back to the period (1999-2000) when a rash of RE-BACKED red HINDU
cards were in circulation. One of the most "infamous" one being a Matty (portrait) with a red HINDU back (an impossible f/b combo).
It was professionally graded by SGC at that time. Subsequently, SGC conceded that they were "duped" by this altered card. There
were several other T206's that were discovered re-backed back then. It's my opinion (and other's) that this Cobb was re-backed by
the same professional paper restorer that was quite busy back then re-backing T206's.

Gee, no wonder Red HINDU's are so tough to find....this pro was buying them up to do his "dirty work".


Hey guys, this is not the only BIG-BUCKS PSA graded fake in circulation, there is a Joe Doyle error card with a POLAR BEAR back out
there. I trust that most of you by now realize that the Joe Doyle error card exists only with a PIEDMONT 350 back.


Speaking about the Joe Doyle error card......brings me to respond to JOE "Potomac"........
I once knew a Joe P back in the 1980's - 1990's that was a great guy to talk BB cards for hours with. What has happened you JOE P ?

You have become a "broken record" with your endless diatribe. The only factor that I can attribute your grumpy-ness to is.....your INTELLECTUAL ENVY of others who post on this forum.

I will NOT debate with you, Joe. My favorite Uncle once gave me this good advice...."Do not ever engage in a discussion with a fool....
for, others will soon not be able to discern who the fool is between you."


T-Rex TED

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Verify before you buy it? Good idea, and im sure REA wouldnt mind you taking the card for a few weeks prior to auction. Who do I ask for when I call them with this minor request?

Most major auction houses will let you inspect items before and during the auction, if you're a known buyer. At REA ask for Rob.

I agree that verifying (beyond the fact that it's already graded) would be a challenge. They're not going to let you send it in to a grading company, but they might let you black light it. They would certainly let you loupe it.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by tedzan

My favorite Uncle once gave me this good advice...."Do not ever engage in a discussion with a fool....
for, others will soon not be able to discern who the fool is between you."


T-Rex TED

My dad's version was:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Exact same sentiment.

[Vol]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Most major auction houses will let you inspect items before and during the auction, if you're a known buyer. At REA ask for Rob.

I agree that verifying (beyond the fact that it's already graded) would be a challenge. They're not going to let you send it in to a grading company, but they might let you black light it. They would certainly let you loupe it.

Does SGC/PSA black light most all of the cards that they grade?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by VOLnVEGAS

Does SGC/PSA black light most all of the cards that they grade?

I'm sure they'd prefer not to say. But since you used the key word "most," I am going to guess absolutely not. I know they spend more time on the more valuable cards, but I bet most cards get nothing more than a minute. From a cost point of view, they can't. Not with bulk specials working out to $5 or less per card.

Keep in mind that the rebacking of these T206 cards as Red Hindu's occurred over 10 years ago. I'm sure they'd take a longer look today at anything that didn't seem to match up. There's a lot more research and knowledge out there today than there was back then.

[tedzan]

Well stated Jim......
"Keep in mind that the rebacking of these T206 cards as Red Hindu's occurred over 10 years ago. I'm sure
they'd take a longer look today at anything that didn't seem to match up. There's a lot more research and
knowledge out there today than there was back then. "

Thanks to Net54, nowadays most of us are aware of the legit T206 f/b combos and the ones that are fakes.

P.S.
Sorry to be picky regarding those age-old axioms......but, not quite the same. It's usually the person with
experience and indept knowledge that will be "dragged" down by the idiot, who will resort to name calling,
when the facts confuse him.

TED Z

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

If I were thinking of spending that kind of money, I would make every effort to assure its authenticity BEFORE i drop the cash... Penny wise and pound foolish. I think everyone here would agree it is better to find out before and save yourself the money then to find out after and lose your investment.

However, If you're a Collector, the approach may vary.
It all depends on your knowledge, and experience ... you might take a shot at something, from a gut feeling.

If there's an attempt at deception ... and I've been there ... you can beat it ... If you know the subject matter.

Ted, would you like me to post what you call diatribe on the board ... and let the people decide for themselves?
First you tell them that their answer doesn't count unless you see the card, now you tell them what to think.

Folks, believe in whatever you want to believe in ... Theories will be theories, and Facts will always be facts.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Now that's classic!!!!!




I am sure someone like REA would allow you to inspect a 2 million dollar card if you are a qualified and sincere buyer. I never said they would let you take it for a couple weeks.

If you are willing to buy from a picture, i printed one on your printer. Take a look at the top sheet, it is a picture of Wonder Woman's plane... please send payment! Paypal gift preferred or add 3%!!

[cfc1909]

I too have questions with the red Hindu Cobb. The seller was a board member at one time-I would love to hear from you.

Just because it is in a graded holder doesn't mean it is legit. The graders grade so many cards if someone wanted to get one past them I am sure they could-example- the bar Old Mills and the Red Hindu matty.

Also just because we have questions on the RH Cobb doesn't mean it is not legit but I would really like to get my hands on this one for a good look.

It helps to know what combos exist and what should exist. Teds new rules for this are very significant. It also helps if you have handeled thousands of 206s.

I wouldn't claim to be a t206 expert but I have spent alot of time trying and will continue to do so.


Chicago206-please read for at least one month before you question someones knowledge or post again. During that time if you have a question -write it down and keep reading. By the end of a month you will probably be able to answer most of your own questions.

If you can't at that time please post them and I will do my best to answer- if I can. If I can't I will do my best to get you an answer or another board member will probably chime in and help.

[E93]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

I wouldn't claim to be a t206 expert but I have spent alot of time trying and will continue to do so.

A lot of other people would claim you are a T206 expert. Thanks for all your contributions to these discussions.
JimB

[tedzan]

I'm reprising the initial post in this thread here in order to switch it back onto the main track. Show or
tell us of your Red HINDU cards.

Several email requests have motivated me to reprise my T206 information regarding Red HINDU cards.
The Red HINDU cards were printed and issued in Winter of 1910 (and very early 1911). It appears that
the 350/460 series Red HINDU cards were printed as "matched pairs" with the BROAD LEAF 460 cards,
since these two scarce T206 backs have in common identical fronts.

Did you know that the Red HINDU's were virtually unknown when Bill Heitman published his book, "The
Monster" in 1980 ? Bill noted that only 6 cards were known. They are indeed very rare.....in my opinion,
about as rare as BL 460 cards.

So let's see your Red HINDU's. All posts are welcome regarding Red HINDU cards....and, any questions
that you may have.


Example of 350/460 series card with Red HINDU back......




28 confirmed Red HINDU cards in the 350/460 series

Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chi)
Chance (portrait-yellow)
Chase (blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Wash-fielding)
Evers (Chi-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
O'Leary (hands at knees)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (fielding)
Stahl (glove)
Street (fielding)
Sweeney (New York)
Willis (throwing)
CYoung (glove)


Example of 460-only series card with Red HINDU back......




12 confirmed Red HINDU cards in the 460-only series

Crandall (cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Gandil
Geyer
Hummell
McGraw (glove hip)
Pfeffer
Sheckard (glove)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Wheat

The 40 cards listed here are accurate as of 4/21/10....if anyone on Net54 can confirm any more Red HINDU
cards....please post your input or email me at ......
tedzan11@comcat.net

Thank you,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Prior to utter chaos sidetracking this thread, I asked this thought-provoking question......

Why did American Lithographic Co. use RED ink to print these HINDU cards ?

The subsequent HINDU T205 cards are printed with Brown ink.

Let's hear some interesting ideas regarding this question.


TED Z

[teetwoohsix]

This is just a guess-could they have just completed a Sweet Caporal back run,changed the plates to do a Hindu run,and forgot to change the ink?

[caramelcard]

Hi Ted,

T205s and many other issues like T59s show us multiple colors being used for the same brand in different series'.

Rob

[cfc1909]

Thank you so much.

I value your knowledge and thank you for contributing and sharing.
Looking forward to hanging out at the National.

[tedzan]

Clayton

I've have thought the same as you....but, on closer observation, comparing the red printing between quite a number
of Sweet Cap and red Hindu cards, there appears to be a slight difference in these red inks.


TED Z

[tedzan]

Two of my favorite T206 cards...."Turkey Mike" Donlin was an unusual BB player, who batted .333
in his on/off 12 year career. Who knows what Donlin would have achieved, had he focused on BB,
rather than acting. He had New York city as his "stage".







Hey guys, post your Red HINDU's....perhaps we will see a new one to add to the confirmed list.


TED Z

[chiprop]

Ted-
The PSA 4 Red Hindu Cobb is very real. I had the card in my possession for weeks and looked at it daily. My understanding is the card was owned by a member as early as mid 80's. Trust me, that card is authentic and spectacular! Dan

[tedzan]

Dan

My understanding (and others on this forum) is that the PSA4 red Cobb/red HINDU has no history prior
to 1999. So tell us, when did you have this card and was it ungraded ?

The numerous T206 re-backed cards in 1999-2000 era that were graded by PSA and SGC were very profes-
sionally re-backed. Once they were encapsulated, there is virtually no way of detecting that these cards
were altered.
Most of us "dinosaurs" on this forum, who have collected T206's since the 1970's, have never seen any
of the 4 - T206 Cobb's with a Brown or Red HINDU backs, much less this one....have you ? ?

Since you say that this card goes back to the mid-1980's, I am very interested in hearing the details of
this card.

Thanks,

TED Z

[wonkaticket]

Dan,

I too would love to hear about this cards history from the 80's.

John

[chiprop]

The consigner of the REA Red Hindu Cobb told me that he first saw the card (raw) when it walked into a show in the 80's. I was with him when he purchased it in 2003/4 and he told me it was the same card. I personally held onto the card for a few weeks before the card was sent to REA. I have seen re-backed cards, and I can tell you that it would be really hard to make a card look like this did from 2 separate pieces of cardboard.

[barrysloate]

Dan- it is in fact quite easy to reback cards and make them virtually undetectable. Many rebacked cards currently reside in slabs that are extremely difficult to tell, so much so that they fooled the graders. And this is not a comment about the Cobb with Hindu because I have never seen it in person.

[caramelcard]

"...so much so that they fooled the graders"

Must've been real good to get it by those guys.

Kidding Barry but couldn't help myself. I know what you're saying, but I must say I've never seen any of this group of T206 cards that Ted refers to that have been rebacked so well that very seasoned T206 collectors can't tell.

I've seen many rebacked T206 (including more than one Cobb/hindu combination) that are completely obvious and show staining or darkening around the edge.

Are you sure it's "quite easy" to make these rebacked cards undetectable? I would think it's quite difficult. I assume that you mean for a handful of people in this country who are paper experts it's "easy?"

If these are virtually undetectable to us, than the only time we would even ask the question with any issue is if the front/back combo wasn't established in the hobby yet. That's scary.

Ted (or anyone else),

Could you tell us a bit more about:

"The numerous T206 re-backed cards in 1999-2000 era that were graded by PSA and SGC were very professionally re-backed."

How were these cards identified? Because the front/back combos didn't exist or because the rebacking was evident from looking at the cards?

Do you have any examples of what you're talking about?

Thanks.

Rob

[wonkaticket]

Also aware of the consinor who owned the card also from my understanding these cards "Hindu's" Cobbs came from a dealer who I will not name.

He was getting these from a person in NY who was connected to or was Moser the re-backer himslef. I think the bad Drum Cobb the fellow board members had which we all no was bad also came from this same dealer slash NY connection.

One connection at arms length to tons of one of a kind Cobb's seems odd to me sort of like Chan having 4 Old Mill OP's.

Also shear law of avg. says at least more than one Hindu (Red or Brown) of any Cobb would have popped up by now. I mean we can point out a handfull of Johnson's and Youngs..yet the biggest player of the day only one of each.

Two Browns and one Red? In all my years never seen one, superset 17k cards just the 2 Browns in question. Asked many auctioners none of them every sold one or remember seeing one inculding Rob from REA. Never seen one on Ebay, never seen one for sale in any way.

One would think we would see at least one other in all these years somewhere..heck even during my Murphy quest I found 3 BL460's examples in fact in BL460 there are many cards that have many examples even a single Cobb Red BL460.

I think we could all say that BL460 is way tougher than Brown Hindu and much tougher than Red. And on a super print like Cobb we have more single examples of a common like Murphy floating around with BL460 back than Cobb with a Brown Hindu or Red for that matter.

These are either the rarest of all T206's even more rare than the Doyle as each Cobb Hindu is a one of one. Or something doesn't fit?

Cheers,

John

John

[barrysloate]

Dan- yes, of course it takes great skill to do it, but that's what paper conservators are trained to do. Did you get a copy of Mint Condition by Dave Jamieson and read the chapter about Kevin Saucier? I think it would be worth your while.

[caramelcard]

Sorry Barry.

I fooled you. Dan and I similar avatars. lol.

No I haven't read that. I'd like to.

[chiprop]

I think cards are quite easy to see through the plastic and stand by what I saw. That being said... Of course it's possible, but not likely. Dan

[barrysloate]

Hi Robert- sorry about that. All you sky blue E99/E100 guys look the same.

[tedzan]

Dan and Rob A....and, to everyone else who is interested......

Check-out this link before you think, that a RE-BACKED card cannot GRADED with at least a PSA 4
or an SGC 50 grade......Matty (portrait) with Red HINDU back

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_23.html


FURTHERMORE, at that same period (circa 1999-2000) the following re-backed cards were GRADED.

Green Cobb with RED HINDU back

Cobb (bat on) with CAROLINA BRIGHTS back

Cobb (bat off) with PIEDMONT 150 back


ALL THE ABOVE T206 F/B COMBO's ARE IMPOSSIBLE


Do NOT ever underestimate the ability of a Professional Paper Restorer. They can do wonders with
Million's of dollars worth of Artwork....much less a simple little T206 BB card.


And, the next question that arises is......who would pay big $$$$$ for an altered BB card......

Well, someone has paid a small fortune on a GRADED T206 Joe Doyle error card that has a POLAR
BEAR back......folks, THIS IS ANOTHER IMPOSSIBLE T206 F/B COMBO.


P.S.....there are many more re-backed cards during that period. These immediately come to mind.
Since, they are obvious NO-NO's. There are others that are valid F/B combo's that have not been
detected. Scary.....isn't it ?


TED Z

[wonkaticket]

I'll also add that the one thing that keeps me from crying foul is the owner of the Brown Hindu Cobbs I highly respect as a T206 collector and that keeps me on the fence a bit here.

Barry agree the chapter on Kevin was good, while I don’t agree with his methods sometimes and thought he lost a lot of credibility with the whole private email thing bragging about sliding bogus cards to forum members...one thing he said is an absolute truth and I would back him 100% on the comment and I quote.

“Nobody’s going to give a shit once it’s in a holder. Somebody’s going to buy it.”

Kevin you’re spot on! Many times the slips should look like this…

[caramelcard]

Thanks Ted,

I remember the green portrait Cobb/red hindu. It even ended up on ebay. To me, I thought that was a blatant reback job that most anyone could identify. I'm not familar with the others and have ignored anything the T206 museum says so I missed the matty/red hindu. That's a good example though. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Of course, I know that those front/back combos are impossible, but as you know the red portrait Cobb should or could be possible within all existing front/back theories which makes this one exceptional. Usually the folks who reback cards get it wrong as far as what is possible.

I've been looking for 10 years to try to document any Red/Bat Off with red hindu or any Green/Bat On with brown hindu, but I'm starting to come around that maybe none exist.

As stated before, when I asked a few years ago if anyone had a Cobb Bat On with brown hindu, I believe the same fellow who posted the red cobb/red hindu posted a Cobb Bat On brown hindu as well.

Here's that thread: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...cobb+bat+hindu


Rob

[caramelcard]

By the way, I thought Kevin's stuff dealt with removing print on backs to create blank backs or weird color variations.

I don't remember anything to do with rebacking?

Rob

[barrysloate]

Robert- as I recall Kevin rebacked a non-sports card in the presence of author Jamieson and then sent it in to be graded. Jamieson claims he received a package from Kevin several weeks later with that exact card- now in a slab and with a numerical grade. And that's scary.

John- I know Kevin made a huge gaffe on the board but I still believe he is a skilled and knowledgeable paper restorer.

[teetwoohsix]

Is the only reason some veteran collectors have suspicions about the Red Cobb/Red Hindu T206 because only one is known of,or because of the rash of rebacked cards that happened 1999/2000?

I only ask because as was pointed out earlier,it seems this front/back combo could be possible.

I have no opinion-have never even held a Red Hindu (yet )in hand,but am really enjoying this thread!!

Sincerely,Clayton

[caramelcard]

John,

We should discuss whether or not we've seen more than one example of a lot of these combinations.

In this thread, Jeff posted a Chase/Red Hindu. I've never seen another.

My friend has a Cy Young glove/red hindu and I don't believe I've seen another.

And your Kleinow? Have you seen another?

There might be others out there, but not sure.

Why haven't we speculated on whether or not the above cards are rebacked?

If any of the Cobbs would break this new found pattern of not being found with a hindu back, it would obviously be the Red portrait "superprint."

Rob

[wonkaticket]

Barry I hear ya,

The facts are simple as long as there is money in this hobby there will be folks willing to take advantage of us. There’s nothing that can be done for every Kevin there are dozens of better equipped more talented card doctors with not so lofty Robin Hood type personas.

These guys will always be one step ahead as all criminals are in almost everything. It’s a game in which the good guys are always one step behind. Unfortunately there will always be one sucker who we will learn from their misfortune. It’s like a bad game of spin the bottle.

All one can really do to protect himself is educate themselves as much as they can, don’t be afraid to ask questions and if it seems fishy walk away.

The only real saving grace this hobby has as there’s no real money in this hobby yet. Get these items in the realm of rare manuscripts and oil paintings/fine art where lots of stuff is trading in six figure and many items are millions. Well boys and girls then you’re in for some real interesting times in regards to fakes.

Kevin’s of the world can perhaps help the graders stop the hacks or common doctor but when the right folks want to sell us fakes were in trouble. Keep in mind folks there are museums who have questionable manuscripts in their collections they paid millions for. This goes for oil paintings and tons of fine art,weapons, cars…the list goes on and on…our little baseball cards are a joke compared to what real crooks can do.

Cheers,

John

[teetwoohsix]

Excellent post Rob,I agree.

Clayton

[E93]

It is my understanding that several groups of rare backed commons were auctioned off around '99-'00 (all bought by an infamous card doctor) and that those backs (with distinctive markings) started ending up on HOFs not long after.

I have no clue as to whether the Cobb/red Hindu is related to this or not. If memories are correct and it dates back to the '80s, then it probably is good. It seems some reliable source remembers seeing a red Cobb/red Hindu back then anyway, even if this one is not it. I agree that the fact that it is a possible/probable combo lends to the likelihood of it being real. The fact that there are no legit brown Hindus of this front makes it all the more possible. If brown Hindus of red/Cobb were real, we would know of many examples. Brown Hindus are not that tough.
JimB

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

John,

We should discuss whether or not we've seen more than one example of a lot of these combinations.

In this thread, Jeff posted a Chase/Red Hindu. I've never seen another.

My friend has a Cy Young glove/red hindu and I don't believe I've seen another.

And your Kleinow? Have you seen another?

There might be others out there, but not sure.

Why haven't we speculated on whether or not the above cards are rebacked?

If any of the Cobbs would break this new found pattern of not being found with a hindu back, it would obviously be the Red portrait "superprint."

Rob

Rob,

Fair and good questions.

Chase Hindu yes I think Ted has one.

Kleinow yes seen two in fact one is in REA right now..(Mines nicer..LOL )

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=13404

As for Young can't say I've seen a Red Hindu Young Glove...however seen quite a few Hindu cards of Young so he does pop up. In regards to Cobb seen none...

Like I said on the fence a bit still but leaning towards no print for Hindu on Cobb. Do to not seeing them and the connections these cards seem to have to one source who was getting cards from Moser.

Also in reagards to re-backing I'm a lot more inclined to think a re-backer would craft his trade on HOF players vs. a common such as Klienow or even Chase to a degree. Seems silly to destroy a Red Hindu common to create another common..folks are going to go for the gusto..Cobb, Matty even perhaps Young. Sort of like setting up a counterfeiting ring to print $1 dollar bills.

Hope that helps.

John

[E93]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

John- I know Kevin made a huge gaffe on the board but I still believe he is a skilled and knowledgeable paper restorer.

That is an understatement!!! Kevin has made numerous huge gaffes!!!
JimB

[barrysloate]

John- well put in post #90, but I slightly disagree with one point- there is plenty of money being funneled into this hobby. True, it's not Vincent van Gogh kind of money, but there are lots of five-figure and six-figure cards trading, and from where I'm sitting that's a lot of money. It's enough to motivate the card doctors.

Jim- I forget Kevin's other huge gaffes.

[caramelcard]

Hey John,

Yeah, that does help. I wasn't aware that Ted had a Chase/Red Hindu.

Lucky guy!

Anyways, I was just trying to make the simple point that just cuz we haven't seen more than one...

I'm not familiar with Moser. I'll search back posts on him. I had no reason to doubt the collector who initially brought the red cobb/red hindu and bat on/brown hindu to the board.

As far as whether or not a rebacker would use a hofer? I think the main thing (if we use what we've seen as evidence) the rebacker goes for is recognizable subjects that are mid grade examples (like yours ).

I guess if I was a rebacker, I'd try to put more than one example of a front/back combo into the hobby. Ok we're giving them way too many ideas now.

By the way, not to digress too much out of the red hindu zone, but what were you saying here?

"One would think we would see at least one other in all these years somewhere..heck even during my Murphy quest I found 3 BL460's examples in fact in BL460 there are many cards that have many examples even a single Cobb Red BL460."

Was the Cobb Red BL 460 suspect as well?

[cfc1909]

here is another Chase

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2008/240.html

I have also seen a few Young and Klienow reds over the years-I will try and find a auction result.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

By the way, not to digress too much out of the red hindu zone, but what were you saying here?

"One would think we would see at least one other in all these years somewhere..heck even during my Murphy quest I found 3 BL460's examples in fact in BL460 there are many cards that have many examples even a single Cobb Red BL460."

Was the Cobb Red BL 460 suspect as well?

The BL460 Cobb I feel is legit...it's in an SGC 80 holder now...LOL (Not mine)

[caramelcard]

Thanks Jim,

What do you think?
Are you convinced that all four Cobbs are impossible with hindu backs?


We need to revisit the blue 7C or FC crayon on the backs of hindus as well. There's so many of them, it must be significant in some way.

Rob

[sando69]

john-
that cobb is stunning!
what can you share about it's history?
*i had never seen one before...
thank you for sharing that quality scan!