PSA completely unethical

[jkm412]

They have people waiting 9 months to get cards graded for submissions that used to take 30 days but they are going to do on site grading at the national. Nice

[Ribbens]

Agreed, sent my cards to them in October - still be "researched" 9 months later.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jkm412

They have people waiting 9 months to get cards graded for submissions that used to take 30 days but they are going to do on site grading at the national. Nice

I do not think what they are doing is unethical

But it is not professional or considerate to their existing and waiting customer base.

The optics is bad and they should be utilizing there resources to take care of their existing back log first

[sreader3]

I see nothing unethical unless PSA stated that they would NOT grade at the National. I expect they did not.

The National gives collectors another option. You can fly to the National and use their on-site services if you choose. It will probably be more expensive than their mail services, but it is an option.

There is no right to have your cards graded faster by entering their mail queue, unless your contract with PSA so provides.

I am not thrilled that PSA has gotten so expensive and increased its wait times. My response is not to use their services. But I think it is good for them to go to the National and give collectors an additional choice.

edited to add: If you call PSA and say you will pay “the National fee” to have your mail submission pulled from the queue, graded and delivered—and they refuse—then I will get where you are coming from.

[Flintboy]

Incredibly long wait times, losing orders, slabbing altered cards, price gouging their customers and there are still people here who defend them.

[jkm412]

you sound like an attorney. so let suppose the power is out at your house and your local utility sends you emails stating they are doing everything possible to get the lights back on. you with me. and then you find out they are sending a team to a more affluent neighborhood to moon light and pick up some spare cash. i don't care what they do just don't send emails out telling people you care. unethical or good business. you say tomato i say tomahto.

[sreader3]

Yes I say tomato. Tomahto is stupid.

[Johnny630]

Their business, PSA, is not essential like the power company is, it’s a high end choice service to grade with that company.

The days of this being a blue collar hobby have sadly long been over.

[jkm412]

tomahto

[Mark17]

Then there's this:

I hired a handyman to come out to my house Monday. He never showed. After waiting an hour and 45 minutes he finally replied to my texts with "Sorry, had problems with my truck." I asked him if he was still coming out and as of this evening, 32 hours later, no reply.

So I hired a different handy man to meet me at the house tomorrow.

You don't like PSA, for any reason, go with someone else. Simple.

And comparing having your electricity go out to not being able to get your cardboard evaluated in a timely manner is not a good analogy. Neither would comparing waiting for PSA be a good analogy to waiting for a heart transplant.

Perspective is important: PSA evaluates cardboard and ink.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

There business is not essential like the power company is it’s a high end choice to grade with that company.

The days of this being a blue collar hobby have sadly long been over.

of course its not essential. that being said they make statements that are patently false in terms of delivering a product. this was a public company that recently was taken private they now answer to no one and people who applied for basic services can no longer get any service.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Then there's this:

I hired a handyman to come out to my house Monday. He never showed. After waiting an hour and 45 minutes he finally replied to my texts with "Sorry, had problems with my truck." I asked him if he was still coming out and as of this evening, 32 hours later, no reply.

So I hired a different handy man to meet me at the house tomorrow.

You don't like PSA, for any reason, go with someone else. Simple.

And comparing having your electricity go out to not being able to get your cardboard evaluated in a timely manner is not a good analogy. Neither would comparing waiting for PSA be a good analogy to waiting for a heart transplant.

Perspective is important: PSA evaluates cardboard and ink.

only problem is that this handyman already has keys to your house

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Yes I say tomato. Tomahto is stupid.

you are fantastic

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by sreader3

I see nothing unethical unless PSA stated that they would NOT grade at the National. I expect they did not.

The National gives collectors another option. You can fly to the National and use their on-site services if you choose. It will probably be more expensive than their mail services, but it is an option.

There is no right to have your cards graded faster by entering their mail queue, unless your contract with PSA so provides.

I am not thrilled that PSA has gotten so expensive and increased its wait times. My response is not to use their services. But I think it is good for them to go to the National and give collectors an additional choice.

edited to add: If you call PSA and say you will pay “the National fee” to have your mail submission pulled from the queue, graded and delivered—and they refuse—then I will get where you are coming from.

craven

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Then there's this:

I hired a handyman to come out to my house Monday. He never showed. After waiting an hour and 45 minutes he finally replied to my texts with "Sorry, had problems with my truck." I asked him if he was still coming out and as of this evening, 32 hours later, no reply.

So I hired a different handy man to meet me at the house tomorrow.

You don't like PSA, for any reason, go with someone else. Simple.

And comparing having your electricity go out to not being able to get your cardboard evaluated in a timely manner is not a good analogy. Neither would comparing waiting for PSA be a good analogy to waiting for a heart transplant.

Perspective is important: PSA evaluates cardboard and ink.

we are talking about good business practice. of course its just cardboard. so you are saying that makes it ok to be deceptive.

[jkm412]

just cardboard (tell them that):

The Newport Beach, Calif.-based company expects revenues for the quarter ended Dec. 31 of $35.4 million, with a gross margin of 64% and operating income of approximately $10 million.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Then there's this:

I hired a handyman to come out to my house Monday. He never showed. After waiting an hour and 45 minutes he finally replied to my texts with "Sorry, had problems with my truck." I asked him if he was still coming out and as of this evening, 32 hours later, no reply.

So I hired a different handy man to meet me at the house tomorrow.

You don't like PSA, for any reason, go with someone else. Simple.

And comparing having your electricity go out to not being able to get your cardboard evaluated in a timely manner is not a good analogy. Neither would comparing waiting for PSA be a good analogy to waiting for a heart transplant.

Perspective is important: PSA evaluates cardboard and ink.

As President & CEO at COLLECTORS UNIVERSE INC, Joseph J. Orlando made $1,621,754 in total compensation. Of this total $362,500 was received as a salary, $340,750 was received as a bonus, $0 was received in stock options, $918,504 was awarded as stock and $0 came from other types of compensation. This information is according to proxy statements filed for the 2020 fiscal year.

[jkm412]

perspective is important

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Then there's this:

I hired a handyman to come out to my house Monday. He never showed. After waiting an hour and 45 minutes he finally replied to my texts with "Sorry, had problems with my truck." I asked him if he was still coming out and as of this evening, 32 hours later, no reply.

So I hired a different handy man to meet me at the house tomorrow.

You don't like PSA, for any reason, go with someone else. Simple.

And comparing having your electricity go out to not being able to get your cardboard evaluated in a timely manner is not a good analogy. Neither would comparing waiting for PSA be a good analogy to waiting for a heart transplant.

Perspective is important: PSA evaluates cardboard and ink.

I would say that Joe Orlando is closer to a utility than a handyman in terms of GDP

[vthobby]

Anyone who has been around awhile always knew PSA was unethical. Fact.

Many years ago, there was a 1948 Bowman Basketball low number find in an attic in Vermont. My buddy had been sending new cards to Beckett for years so he sent the find to Beckett. I did not care because they were razor sharp pack fresh. Over a couple years, I bought most in Beckett holders and slowly broke them out and sent to PSA. EVERY card graded with PSA and was usually within a half grade. Sometimes lower, sometimes higher in the new PSA slabs.

Here's the story.....at the end I got tired of breaking them out so I sent PSA my last 4 BVG 8's. Waited patiently and they popped one day! "did not meet min grade" which I had put down as 8 since they had been very consistent. I was mad. I called PSA and had them "admin hold the cards for re-checking".

2 days later they called, told me the head grader reviewed them, and sent them back to me. I basically paid about $160 at the time for PSA to look at my cards and tell me they were not 8s and they sent them back in the Beckett 8 holders!!!! $160 for NOTHING!

I was livid, broke all 4 out and resubmitted! Yes PSA is such a genius at getting our money twice. Take a guess what all 4 cards graded out as?

BINGO. PSA 8, PSA 8, PSA 8, PSA 8

Absolutely unethical and incompetent!

I knew they were 8s. Beckett knew they were 8s....... PSA had to get 2 rounds of cash to tell me that they were 8s!

UGH!

Mike

PS I have the 6th ranked Registry Set and the 3rd highest GPA due to this find. Highest grades were 9s. I only did it for the Registry! I wish SGC still had a registry! ugh

DSCN1003 (1).jpg. 002.jpg

001.jpg. DSCN1005.jpg

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Then there's this:

I hired a handyman to come out to my house Monday. He never showed. After waiting an hour and 45 minutes he finally replied to my texts with "Sorry, had problems with my truck." I asked him if he was still coming out and as of this evening, 32 hours later, no reply.

So I hired a different handy man to meet me at the house tomorrow.

You don't like PSA, for any reason, go with someone else. Simple.

And comparing having your electricity go out to not being able to get your cardboard evaluated in a timely manner is not a good analogy. Neither would comparing waiting for PSA be a good analogy to waiting for a heart transplant.

Perspective is important: PSA evaluates cardboard and ink.

Mark17 or whoever you are if its just "cardboard and ink" why is it so expensive to evaluate and why should you have 64% profit margin to do such "simpleton" work as you say. these people are worthy of criticism as are we all. then again i am a "simpleton" from pittsburgh

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Their business, PSA, is not essential like the power company is, it’s a high end choice service to grade with that company.

The days of this being a blue collar hobby have sadly long been over.

you are wrong John. If Amazon did not deliver your "stuff" when they said they would you would be an "unhappy John"

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jkm412

Mark17 or whoever you are if its just "cardboard and ink" why is it so expensive to evaluate and why should you have 64% profit margin to do such "simpleton" work as you say. these people are worthy of criticism as are we all. then again i am a "simpleton" from pittsburgh

His name is under his id.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by jkm412

you are wrong John. If Amazon did not deliver your "stuff" when they said they would you would be an "unhappy John"

if i had reservations at a "high end restaurant" and they said we are busy go to "burger king" i guess you would say ok

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Leon

His name is under his id.

thanks Leon (peasant / forum owner)

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by jkm412

if i had reservations at a "high end restaurant" and they said we are busy go to "burger king" i guess you would say ok

Depends how hungry I was...... you ever had a Whopper with Cheese with Heavy everything on it?

Messy but Yummy!

Mike

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Depends how hungry I was...... you ever had a Whopper with Cheese with Heavy everything on it?

Messy but Yummy!

Mike

Mike I am originally from NY so its White Castle

[vthobby]

Originally Posted by jkm412

Mike I am originally from NY so its White Castle

I literally almost bought frozen White Castle Burgers last night at local grocery store in VT. I like them but they go through me quickly if you know what I mean!

Mike

download.jpeg

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I literally almost bought frozen White Castle Burgers last night at local grocery store in VT. I like them but they go through me quickly if you know what I mean!

Mike

dont waylay me PSA is horrible but if White Castle graded cards that would slide right thru and be fairly inexpensive (pun)

[conor912]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I do not think what they are doing is unethical

But it is not professional or considerate to their existing and waiting customer base.

The optics is bad and they should be utilizing there resources to take care of their existing back log first

I agree. Not unethical…but pretty shitty of them.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I literally almost bought frozen White Castle Burgers last night at local grocery store in VT. I like them but they go through me quickly if you know what I mean!

Mike

Attachment 469994

I now wish White Castle had made a tender offer for PSA

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jkm412

Mark17 or whoever you are if its just "cardboard and ink" why is it so expensive to evaluate and why should you have 64% profit margin to do such "simpleton" work as you say. these people are worthy of criticism as are we all. then again i am a "simpleton" from pittsburgh

I work in IT and this is a simple logical choice:

1. Do business with PSA
2. Don't do business with PSA

What so many people here do is choose #1, and then complain ad nauseam, in thread after thread after thread, about how bad and over-priced and slow PSA is. Hasn't that horse been beaten to death yet?

I collect GU jerseys but if cards were my thing, I'd be into raw, or would've switched over to Beckett or SGC long ago. If I continued to use PSA, with all the problems so thoroughly and repetitively enumerated here, I would accept the reality of the situation rather than complain as I hand them more cash.

It reminds me of the guy who bangs his head against the wall and complains that it hurts.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I work in IT and this is a simple logical choice:

1. Do business with PSA
2. Don't do business with PSA

What so many people here do is choose #1, and then complain ad nauseam, in thread after thread after thread, about how bad and over-priced and slow PSA is. Hasn't that horse been beaten to death yet?

I collect GU jerseys but if cards were my thing, I'd be into raw, or would've switched over to Beckett or SGC long ago. If I continued to use PSA, with all the problems so thoroughly and repetitively enumerated here, I would accept the reality of the situation rather than complain as I hand them more cash.

It reminds me of the guy who bangs his head against the wall and complains that it hurts.

make no mistake i will never go with psa again i just have cards that are stranded there and the fact that they are claiming to do their best but offering specials to the highest bidder is disingenuous and again its just cardboard and i have little in the game but they are making millions on "cardboard"

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by jkm412

make no mistake i will never go with psa again....

And given your experience, I would make that same decision. I found a different handy man, you will find a different grading company or choose to collect raw cards. We will both be fine.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by Mark17

And given your experience, I would make that same decision. I found a different handy man, you will find a different grading company or choose to collect raw cards. We will both be fine.

agreed although while castle fried clams at 2 am on fordham road beats burger king

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I work in IT and this is a simple logical choice:



1. Do business with PSA

2. Don't do business with PSA



What so many people here do is choose #1, and then complain ad nauseam, in thread after thread after thread, about how bad and over-priced and slow PSA is. Hasn't that horse been beaten to death yet?



I collect GU jerseys but if cards were my thing, I'd be into raw, or would've switched over to Beckett or SGC long ago. If I continued to use PSA, with all the problems so thoroughly and repetitively enumerated here, I would accept the reality of the situation rather than complain as I hand them more cash.



It reminds me of the guy who bangs his head against the wall and complains that it hurts.

PSA brings the highest resale prices. People who don't care about resale will choose other TPG. People who want the highest return on investment will choose PSA and complain. If someone else started a registry that could compete against PSA, that would change the market!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

PSA brings the highest resale prices. People who don't care about resale will choose other TPG. People who want the highest return on investment will choose PSA and complain. If someone else started a registry that could compete against PSA, that would change the market!

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Right. So if someone does their own personal cost-benefit analysis, is aware of all the PSA related problems and frustrations, and concludes the upside outweighs the downside, why complain about the downside? It's their choice to do business with them.

I really do wish someone would start a cross-TPG registry for those people who are into that. I also hope other TPGs will enter the market with quality services. Competition is good.

[jkm412]

Originally Posted by todeen

PSA brings the highest resale prices. People who don't care about resale will choose other TPG. People who want the highest return on investment will choose PSA and complain. If someone else started a registry that could compete against PSA, that would change the market!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Tim you are clearly missing the point. PSA just needs to be clear 1. our service sucks unless you are willing to pay top dollar 2. we are shameless and will make any statement to make it appear we care about service 3. we don't care about service

that should be their mission statement

they should not be offering any services until they get through the glut of submissions that they accepted knowing full well they were not going to be able to deliver

you can argue all your dog eat dog comments you want but most people on this board just seem to enjoy this as a hobby and then you have PSA that wants to monetize every opportunity and deliver crappy service

for gods sake i collect track and field cards i must have rocks in my head

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

I literally almost bought frozen White Castle Burgers last night at local grocery store in VT. I like them but they go through me quickly if you know what I mean!

Mike

Attachment 469994

They go through everyone quickly. That is why they sell so many.

[egri]

Mark, I agree with you, and I'll add that of all the questionable things PSA does that throw sand in my gearbox, having longer than expected wait times at a time when they've been so busy they had to stop taking new submissions doesn't make my list.

[bobbyw8469]

If anyone can feel your pain, it is me. Not many people can say that PSA has lost one of their orders. I can. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and will reserve judgement for how they handle my situation. Right now, it isn't looking favorable.

[ullmandds]

PSA sucks...they have proven since day 1(with the grading of Gretzky Wagner) they're not capable of accurately assessing cards. They have reinforced this over the years with their inconsistent and ever changing grading standards.

The folks over at Blowout forums have exposed this over and over...time and time again.

At what point does it become an issue of PSA's fanboys/customer base are greedy and only care about the all mighty dollar...kinda like PSA.

With most business models...if a business operated the way PSA does...they'd be out of business lickety split...not thriving and making money hand over fist.

Not to even mention the ridiculous cost/wait times?


So who's to blame here???

[tobychin]

I've had it, never again will I send them a card.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by jkm412

Tim you are clearly missing the point.....

you can argue all your dog eat dog comments you want but most people on this board just seem to enjoy this as a hobby and then you have PSA that wants to monetize every opportunity and deliver crappy service

I'm not missing the point. I don't grade my cards. I am one of those collectors who collect for the enjoyment, like you. But I'm not naive either. I started collecting during the junk wax era 30 years ago when I was six, and I've known full well since elementary school that every facet of card collecting is based on economics. Beckett monthly publication. Dead on centered, mint, gem mint, eye appeal. Hot List / Cold List. LCS. Card shows. The National. Those are all terms of dog eat dog competition. And everyone on this board recognizes that. Some of us, like you and me, just choose not to get caught up in it. But all people on this board realize that this hobby is clearly the definition of capitalism, and has been since all of us were children. Except maybe TedZ who appears to be as old as Santa Claus.

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[JohnP0621]

Originally Posted by jkm412

make no mistake i will never go with psa again i just have cards that are stranded there and the fact that they are claiming to do their best but offering specials to the highest bidder is disingenuous and again its just cardboard and i have little in the game but they are making millions on "cardboard"

PSA is making millions on cardboard .
So are the people that sell their High Grade PSA cards.
Have you seen the latest Auction Prices.

That is the reason why they have so many submissions.
I collect Pre War but even all of the new stuff is getting record prices.
Glad that I bought mine before the latest surge.

PS . I agree that the long wait time is not what you sign on for based on the
Submission that you agreed on and that PSA should give something back to its customers like free subs but with the success they are having I don’t see it.
Also You will have to pay a heavy price to have cards graded at the National.

John P

[iwantitiwinit]

I don't know why anyone should be surprised by this. Bottom line is you have a choice to use PSA or not it's as simple as that.

[wondo]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I don't know why anyone should be surprised by this. Bottom line is you have a choice to use PSA or not it's as simple as that.

+1

[Leon]

I agree Tim.
And PSA isn't doing anything unethical. It's business. Are they screwing a lot of customers over, absolutely. But it doesn't matter to them, or their customers apparently, as the more people submit the more money they and PSA make. It's not rocket science. I applaud them for taking advantage of the situation and just shake my head at the comments from those that can't wait to submit and complain too.
My prediction is yet another grading company comes to fruition soon. You heard it here first.
Why wouldn't someone enter the market with the chaos and money involved?
.

Originally Posted by todeen

I'm not missing the point. I don't grade my cards. I am one of those collectors who collect for the enjoyment, like you. But I'm not naive either. I started collecting during the junk wax era 30 years ago when I was six, and I've known full well since elementary school that every facet of card collecting is based on economics. Beckett monthly publication. Dead on centered, mint, gem mint, eye appeal. Hot List / Cold List. LCS. Card shows. The National. Those are all terms of dog eat dog competition. And everyone on this board recognizes that. Some of us, like you and me, just choose not to get caught up in it. But all people on this board realize that this hobby is clearly the definition of capitalism, and has been since all of us were children. Except maybe TedZ who appears to be as old as Santa Claus.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I agree Tim.
And PSA isn't doing anything unethical. It's business. Are they screwing a lot of customers over, absolutely. But it doesn't matter to them, or their customers apparently, as the more people submit the more money they and PSA make. It's not rocket science. I applaud them for taking advantage of the situation and just shake my head at the comments from those that can't wait to submit and complain too.
My prediction is yet another grading company comes to fruition soon. You heard it here first.
Why wouldn't someone enter the market with the chaos and money involved?
.

Ebay, I hear.

[bobbyw8469]

If I do another group sub with them, I have no one to blame but myself. Of course, if they make this right with me, I would be tempted. Leon nailed it. You hate to use anyone else, because PSA cards are getting a premium. If this isn't the proverbial "catch 22", I don't know what is......