More interest in raw cards in 2024 - Observations

[parkplace33]

In the last month or two, I have seen many, many posts (here and online) about collectors and dealers wanting to buy vintage raw cards and only raw cards.

Similarly, at the card shows that I went to this year, vintage raw cards seemed to be more in demand than graded cards.

Anyone else seeing a resurgence in raw cards this year? Of course, AHs will continue to have graded cards, but I am talking in other areas.

[jingram058]

Graded cards are for people who care about money, for some sense of protection or insurance. Obviously, expensive as some of these cards are, that's a given.

I'm not collecting cards or memorabilia or anything else for some sort of investment purposes, or to bequeath to anyone when I croak. I don't care about the grade, and I don't want the slabs. I don't want to know if my cards are trimmed, or creased in some way I can't see, or even if they're fake. I don't believe they are, and that's all I care about. And, most importantly, I can afford raw cards.

[Smarti5051]

I suspect a decent amount of raw card buying is from buyers who are trying to find value buys with the intention of submitting the cards for grading in the hopes of increasing the resale value.

[JollyElm]

True collectors (whatever that means) aside, I see the 'turn and flip' mindset as a big factor in making people target unslabbed cards. Profit, profit, profit.

582. Tacticalculus
Quickly crunching the numbers to determine if the price of an ungraded card is a good deal, based on what its value would be if it came back from a TPG at the grade it ‘unquestionably deserves.’

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I suspect a decent amount of raw card buying is from buyers who are trying to find value buys with the intention of submitting the cards for grading in the hopes of increasing the resale value.

This. One guy spent nearly an hour at my table last weekend methodically working through a stack of cards with a lighted loupe. When he finally purchased a few I said "good luck on the 10's".

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This. One guy spent nearly an hour at my table last weekend methodically working through a stack of cards with a lighted loupe. When he finally purchased a few I said "good luck on the 10's".

You should have increased your price on them and thanked him for grading them for you.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I suspect a decent amount of raw card buying is from buyers who are trying to find value buys with the intention of submitting the cards for grading in the hopes of increasing the resale value.

With all the amazing how-to videos out there showing how to get better grades it makes sense. Plus the real money isn't in buying/selling PSA graded cards. The real money is getting cards into high(er) graded PSA slabs.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I suspect a decent amount of raw card buying is from buyers who are trying to find value buys with the intention of submitting the cards for grading in the hopes of increasing the resale value.

This. Todays raw gems...become tomorrow's high grade altered gold.

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Graded cards are for people who care about money, for some sense of protection or insurance. Obviously, expensive as some of these cards are, that's a given.

I'm not collecting cards or memorabilia or anything else for some sort of investment purposes, or to bequeath to anyone when I croak. I don't care about the grade, and I don't want the slabs. I don't want to know if my cards are trimmed, or creased in some way I can't see, or even if they're fake. I don't believe they are, and that's all I care about. And, most importantly, I can afford raw cards.

I'm with you.. I am a collector and do not sell..

[ullmandds]

Buying raw is one of the only economical options in the hobby today. I kinda have 2 collections...a graded one...and a raw one.

[todeen]

My Barry Larkin collection is for my enjoyment only. Nobody who visits me will ever care about a PSA 10, let alone do they even care about Barry Larkin. I do not have a card collecting friend. So for whom do I need to buy a graded 10 for if I can't show it off? Its better than to have a nice raw copy for my personal checklist and to move on.

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[brianp-beme]

I think my card qualifies as a graded card. Then again, the fancy 'F' might instead mean I need to repeat the 'Raw Card Identification' class.

obakfsb303.jpg

Brian

[raulus]

Seems like a confluence of factors at play here.

Certainly the relative affordability of raw is a major factor. As others have noted, opportunism can also be a factor, with a plan to flip the raw pieces into highly graded slabs and turn a quick profit.

The OP mentioned dealers clamoring for raw. My sense is that when it comes to dealers, there’s a better opportunity to acquire raw cards at a reasonable price, and retail them with enough margin to continue to stay in business. With graded cards, the market is a bit different, simply because that market tends to operate more efficiently in many ways, making it a bit more difficult for a dealer to really have a solid margin short of resorting to museum pricing.

Finally, the OP mentioned shows. For buyers, this provides an opportunity to personally inspect the merchandise prior to buying, just to evaluate whether it’s legit and unaltered (at least in the opinion of the buyer), and whether the condition meets the buyer’s needs. Online sales do not afford this same luxury for personal inspection. As we have seen recently, even online AH scans don’t always convey every defect.

Of course, you also have some substantial portion of our world that just plain prefers raw. Some of that may be due to nostalgia, economics, disillusionment with the TPGs, aesthetics, weight, or even confidence in our abilities to perform our own evaluation without assistance from some assumedly undertrained grader wearing green eye shades in far off places.

As the WSJ headline would say, Raw is having a moment!

[TMKenKen]

Dealers will only deal if they get them cheap. That includes anything in the 50s through 75. Never had them offer value even in a trade. And they are in the business to make money. I get it. Even traders seem to approach it the same way. I have tons from the 50's and 60's many quite nice. Not sure what I can do with them though. Though I do have one grandson who actually seems to have a collector's attitude, but even he talks regularly about value. Sigh!

[Directly]

I've heard the next generation remark if it not graded something is wrong with the card--I assume he was referring to modern--I know my nephews son ( 2 nd generation will not buy ungraded cards) If selling the grade can help with negotiation, and with no returns--'

Raw for price, collecting or submitting--graded for collecting, selling, help establish a value.

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I think my card qualifies as a graded card. Then again, the fancy 'F' might instead mean I need to repeat the 'Raw Card Identification' class.

Attachment 611186

Brian

Board purchase. A few years ago.

image.jpg

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

Board purchase. A few years ago.

Attachment 611435

Looks like the back of that Obak failed the Raw Card Identification course as well. What would F. Scott Fitzgerald think?

Brian

[StraightRaceCards]

Most of my favorite buys have been raw cards

Easy to appreciate them more when you can put your hands on them and get a feel for the card

That being said, I do love to grade for protection, authenticity, and to make it easier to pass along should something happen to me.

Bought my first Clemente raw last year and Kaline this year at the Dallas show. Thrilled to pick them up.

Bottom line, Any card is a great card!

[Gorditadogg]

I collect mostly raw, and I don't see any increase in the number of raw cards at the shows I attend. The prices of raw cards online have gone up, at least for the ones I collect, so either there are less raw cards available or more collectors chasing them.

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[ClementeFanOh]

Hmm...Raw still vastly outnumbers slabbed, so by pure numbers raw will
win the day. Aside from purists who pull out a crucifix upon seeing a slabbed
card, I agree that many folks shop raw in the hope of soon getting it slabbed.

There was a comment above that graded cards are "only for people who
care about money". I find that strange, as it's an absolute and thus incorrect
from the start. I'll also point out that people who buy raw (includes me) also
"care about money". It's just an odd remark. I've collected for 4+ decades,
and enjoy it whether I'm buying raw or slabbed.

Trent King

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

There was a comment above that graded cards are "only for people who
care about money". I find that strange, as it's an absolute and thus incorrect
from the start.

I'm sure we're all thinking it...

[brianp-beme]

I believe it is all about the group scan. Folks have realized that the scanning process is so much nicer and less time consuming when scanning raw cards. Heck, you can bunch up cards close together without all the hassle of endless cropping. And not having to buy an extra pricey fancy-dancy scanner capable of creating good graded card group scans is a bonus as well.

In fact, it is the only reason I collect cards anymore. Ungraded cards present me with the endless one and done group scan opportunities that only the un-slabbed can offer.

I have included an example raw card group scan to offer a visual of the benefits available for those seeking a simplified collecting life through scanning. Also this scan highlights just how desirable beat up raw cards can appear with just such a slap-it-on-a-scanner mentality. I imagine its laser-like intensity is practically burning holes into your collective retinas as you experience it.


Brian

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Hmm...Raw still vastly outnumbers slabbed, so by pure numbers raw will
win the day. Aside from purists who pull out a crucifix upon seeing a slabbed
card, I agree that many folks shop raw in the hope of soon getting it slabbed.

There was a comment above that graded cards are "only for people who
care about money". I find that strange, as it's an absolute and thus incorrect
from the start. I'll also point out that people who buy raw (includes me) also
"care about money". It's just an odd remark. I've collected for 4+ decades,
and enjoy it whether I'm buying raw or slabbed.

Trent King

If you don't care about some sort of future value, why then have them graded? Only other reason is you worry about authenticity. As stated, I don't care about that. I don't believe mine are fake, but if they are, no one except me is ever going to care. I've stated this on this forum until I'm blue in the face - I am not an investor. I care only about having the cards I want as a collector or hobbyist. Look at several responses here. I'm not the only one. Everyone I know and associate with in this hobby deals only with raw cards, and look at graded cards as, to us, unnecessarily expensive and not our bag. I don't need or want plastic encased cards. To me, that's no hobby. Your situation is obviously somehow different.

[ClementeFanOh]

James- “everyone” you know and associate with deals in raw? Okay. The thing is, since you only deal with raw cards, you still “care about money”- you care about spending less (apparently). I’ve got plenty of raw cards that hold memories for me, and fewer slabbed that likewise hold memory. Today I bought a PSA 5 1970 Topps Bob Gibson for the whopping sum of $25. I didn’t do it because I think it’s value will go through the roof, but rather because it’s a gorgeous card of a great player. The notion of knowing “everyone’s” motivations is a bit…ambitious, isn’t it? Trent King

[Leon]

I collect baseball cards. IF they come in plastic, fine. If they don't, fine.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

James- “everyone” you know and associate with deals in raw? Okay. The thing is, since you only deal with raw cards, you still “care about money”- you care about spending less (apparently). I’ve got plenty of raw cards that hold memories for me, and fewer slabbed that likewise hold memory. Today I bought a PSA 5 1970 Topps Bob Gibson for the whopping sum of $25. I didn’t do it because I think it’s value will go through the roof, but rather because it’s a gorgeous card of a great player. The notion of knowing “everyone’s” motivations is a bit…ambitious, isn’t it? Trent King

When will you people learn?

There are only two ways to collect:

My way, and

The wrong way.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

James- “everyone” you know and associate with deals in raw? Okay. The thing is, since you only deal with raw cards, you still “care about money”- you care about spending less (apparently). I’ve got plenty of raw cards that hold memories for me, and fewer slabbed that likewise hold memory. Today I bought a PSA 5 1970 Topps Bob Gibson for the whopping sum of $25. I didn’t do it because I think it’s value will go through the roof, but rather because it’s a gorgeous card of a great player. The notion of knowing “everyone’s” motivations is a bit…ambitious, isn’t it? Trent King

Trent, here's the thing. All my cards are raw. I like being able to hold them from time to time. I've had a few graded cards, encased in slabs. I didn't care for that, so I cracked them out. I have made a number of trades, both here where I live, in person, and on this net54 forum. All raw cards; Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Koufax and many others that would potentially grade and thus be worth quite a bit to those of us who are less well-heeled. The collectors I know around here are just like me. They desire only raw cards. I have one friend who has an entire 2 car garage full of highly organized cards including vintage and pre-war, floor to ceiling, all raw. The one person on this forum that I personally truly miss is Ted Z. I know he had graded cards, but he also had many raw, and he understood why someone would want them that way. I don't concern myself with value, or investment, or bequeathing them to someone. My wife and daughter feel the same. We're not looking to pay off the mortgage via baseball cards. The OP forwarded a question about raw, and I felt compelled to throw in my 2 worthless cents because, frankly, the graded aficionados here very clearly outnumber the raw. It's just how it is. I don't begrudge anyone's reasons for wanting their cards graded. Unlike the posters above who don't get it, it's not my way or the highway. It's just not my thing.

[darwinbulldog]

I don't really do any buying or selling in person. I figure most collectors would prefer graded if buying online and don't really care if buying in person (apart from grades of 9 or higher).

[Touch'EmAll]

Yes, the 1970 Bob Gibson card is a beauty. The colors just pop and can look dripping wet with a nice copy.