Jack Morris Suspended

[insidethewrapper]

Jack Morris was suspended from the Detroit broadcasting booth for saying " be very, very careful" when referring how to pitch to Ohtani. I was watching the game and I never even gave it a second thought. I guess he said it in a " Charlie Chan like voice ". I guess I don't understand the problem, are people that sensitive these days. I'm sure they can't watch, Charlie Chan movies, or Blazing Saddles.

[Cliff Bowman]

This brought to mind something I had completely forgotten about, Thom Brennaman. I just googled Brennaman and he is getting ready to resume broadcasting... high school games in Cincinnati.

[Republicaninmass]

Sounds more.like Elmer Fudd in my head

[bdk1976]

I can't imagine trying to be an announcer in this time of cancel culture. That's probably why many of them are so bland these days - have to watch every word you say and god forbid you slip up.

[maniac_73]

Total nonsense as usual. People just look for reasons to say something is offensive. Was disappointed to see Keith Olbermann leading the witchhunt on twitter to get Morris fired

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Total nonsense as usual. People just look for reasons to say something is offensive. Was disappointed to see Keith Olbermann leading the witchhunt on twitter to get Morris fired

Who is more PC than Keith?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

I can't imagine trying to be an announcer in this time of cancel culture. That's probably why many of them are so bland these days - have to watch every word you say and god forbid you slip up.

When a woman is on a work call/meeting, I am intentionally completely bland unless I know them very well.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

I can't imagine trying to be an announcer in this time of cancel culture. That's probably why many of them are so bland these days - have to watch every word you say and god forbid you slip up.

They can say whatever they want about a Tim Tebow with zero consequences.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Jack Morris was suspended from the Detroit broadcasting booth for saying " be very, very careful" when referring how to pitch to Ohtani. I was watching the game and I never even gave it a second thought. I guess he said it in a " Charlie Chan like voice ". I guess I don't understand the problem, are people that sensitive these days. I'm sure they can't watch, Charlie Chan movies, or Blazing Saddles.

Most of the old Charlie Chan movies starred Warner Oland, a Swedish-American actor in the title role.

Typical Hollywood.

Heck, John Wayne once portrayed Genghis Khan!

No wonder they're sensitive.


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[Butch7999]

So it's cool, then, if when Fergy Jenkins or Mookie Betts is the subject, the announcer imitates them with a Stepin Fetchit imitation,
or discusses Guerrero Jr by imitating Slowpoke Rodriguez? How about using Sid Dithers' voice as an imitation of Koufax...
Just checking...

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Sounds more.like Elmer Fudd in my head

That phrase said in that voice was Elmer Fudd, which has nothing to do with Asian culture in any way. This is strange.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

That phrase said in that voice was Elmer Fudd, which has nothing to do with Asian culture in any way. This is strange.

I didn't hear it, but when I think of that phrase, repeating in my head I'm hearing Fudd. Maybe I'm too young to remember Charlie Chan.

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[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

So it's cool, then, if when Fergy Jenkins or Mookie Betts is the subject, the announcer imitates them with a Stepin Fetchit imitation,

or discusses Guerrero Jr by imitating Slowpoke Rodriguez? How about using Sid Dithers' voice as an imitation of Koufax...

Just checking...

Oy Vey!

Better not use that with Koufax on the mound.



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[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I didn't hear it, but when I think of that phrase, repeating in my head I'm hearing Fudd. Maybe I'm too young to remember Charlie Chan.

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I honestly have no idea who Charlie Chan is (I know I can look it up), but how do you hear that phrase and voice and not think Elmer Fudd, who is in a sport movie right now?

I know Elmer actually says "Be Very very quite..." (not careful), but I have heard it misquoted often in the Fudd voice. I could be wrong, but this seems to be a misunderstanding of pop culture references not racism.

[SAllen2556]

Come on now boys, Asians who speak english as a second language often have trouble pronouncing r's. Elmer Fudd also has trouble pronouncing r's. Any way you interpret it, Morris is in deep trouble.

People would be offended even if it was intended as an Elmer Fudd impression because it's perceived as making fun of people with speech impediments and that's hurtful to those people and thus punishable by public lynching.

Even more people will be offended if he was imitating an Asian having trouble pronouncing r's because that's racial stereotyping and such an act is punishable by a long, slow tortuous death - unless you do it on a tv show called South Park. Jack is doomed either way.

[Republicaninmass]

Is anyone hurt by sarcasm?

Asking for a friend


Dont forget my Son's favorite character, Tow Mater, player by Larry the Cable guy. Cartoons are next!

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[packs]

I don't really understand why people would want to defend this. Out of everyone who speaks about Ohtani on television, only he chose to use a mock accent. It was totally avoidable and I don't think anything is lost by tossing that behavior to the wayside. I have no doubt it was an attempt at a cheap laugh, but I can't help but ask why? His apology didn't help himself either.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't really understand why people would want to defend this. Out of everyone who speaks about Ohtani on television, only he chose to use a mock accent. It was totally avoidable and I don't think anything is lost by tossing that behavior to the wayside. I have no doubt it was an attempt at a cheap laugh, but I can't help but ask why? His apology didn't help himself either.

+1

I was happy he didn't lose his job though, unless I missed something. I read he has to undergo diversity training or something like that. I think too many announcers are being canned too quickly for the first offense.

This also reminds me of the Colorado Rockies game two weeks ago. Half the audience heard the N word, while half the audience heard Dinger, the Rockies mascot.

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[packs]

I think the lesson learned here is that cheap laughs are cheap for a reason. They're not funny and you could just not do that. While people might say "what's the big deal?" a better question would be "don't you realize you're not just talking to your buddies when you're on TV"?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by packs

I think the lesson learned here is that cheap laughs are cheap for a reason. They're not funny and you could just not do that. While people might say "what's the big deal?" a better question would be "don't you realize you're not just talking to your buddies when you're on TV"?

Yeah. I'm a high school teacher. I routinely try to get my high school boys to understand audience. Jokes said to buddies at lunch is a much different audience than a classroom with kids, some of whom might not like you. And school is a different audience than parents/ grandparents. But a lot of my students want to be the same person to everyone they come in contact with. They tell me it's more honest. In my experience, a lot of arguments against PC stem from this idea about having to speak toward different audiences.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think he was imitating Elmer Fudd.

[insidethewrapper]

Don't want to hurt anyone's feelings anymore. Now they often give participation ribbons to all entries so they don't feel bad if they were not in top three.

[NiceDocter]

I’m against cancel culture where one misstep or stupid statement is used to condemn someone’s entire life and career. All that said, if you turn up the audio and listen carefully Morris is not saying the Elmer Fudd “vewy vewy” but rather “velly velly” which is meant to mock Asians learning a new language. Folks it might have seemed funny 50 years ago but it really isn’t appropriate for today. I don’t think the guy meant any harm but he was wrong…. And at least gave a sort of apology. I thought Ohtani handled it in a very mature and honorable way. Morris like everyone else in this world should get some slack cut for this and hopefully learn and do better in the future. If he is a repeated offender then ….. as the umpire would say …YER OUT!

[packs]

Elmer Fudd sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking to me. He didn’t mention Elmer during his on air apology.

[packs]

Originally Posted by todeen

Yeah. I'm a high school teacher. I routinely try to get my high school boys to understand audience. Jokes said to buddies at lunch is a much different audience than a classroom with kids, some of whom might not like you. And school is a different audience than parents/ grandparents. But a lot of my students want to be the same person to everyone they come in contact with. They tell me it's more honest. In my experience, a lot of arguments against PC stem from this idea about having to speak toward different audiences.

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I hope you remind your students that they will one day join the work force and it won't matter how they feel about being honest. Every office comes with the same professional expectations and Jack Morris was a guy at work.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by todeen

Yeah. I'm a high school teacher. I routinely try to get my high school boys to understand audience. Jokes said to buddies at lunch is a much different audience than a classroom with kids, some of whom might not like you. And school is a different audience than parents/ grandparents. But a lot of my students want to be the same person to everyone they come in contact with. They tell me it's more honest. In my experience, a lot of arguments against PC stem from this idea about having to speak toward different audiences.

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You're completely right, audience matters, and always has. If they let women in the locker room, of course you're going to tone it down out of decency and respect. And so on. That's just common sense, not being PC.

[MooseDog]

I'm half Asian and yes, what Morris said, the way he said it is offensive. When I was younger I looked more Asian and white kids would pull their eyes back and talk in that same Charlie Chan accent to try and insult me or something. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what they were trying to accomplish as I'm half "white" too.

Anyway, I'm personally cool with Morris' apology and him getting a couple of days off. Lesson learned.

At my job I had a prominent customer come in and talk about his race horse, who is standing at stud in Japan and he talked about the foals "...not coming out with buck teeth and slanted eyes...so I guess that's OK..."

[chaddurbin]

well i'm full asian, and what i'm learning from this thread is white people aren't offended by anything, and don't understand why the rest of the world can't brush aside the casual racism inflicted upon them every day.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I honestly have no idea who Charlie Chan is (I know I can look it up), but how do you hear that phrase and voice and not think Elmer Fudd, who is in a sport movie right now?

I know Elmer actually says "Be Very very quite..." (not careful), but I have heard it misquoted often in the Fudd voice. I could be wrong, but this seems to be a misunderstanding of pop culture references not racism.

Here's the 411 on Charlie Chan:

from wikipedia:

Charlie Chan is a fictional Honolulu police detective created by author Earl Derr Biggers for a series of mystery novels. Biggers loosely based Chan on Hawaiian detective Chang Apana.

The benevolent and heroic Chan was conceived as an alternative to Yellow Peril stereotypes and villains like Fu Manchu. Many stories feature Chan traveling the world beyond Hawaii as he investigates mysteries and solves crimes.

Chan first appeared in Biggers' novels and then was featured in a number of media.

Over four dozen films featuring Charlie Chan were made, beginning in 1926.

The character, featured only as a supporting character, was first portrayed by East Asian actors, and the films met with little success.

In 1931, for the first film centering on Chan, Charlie Chan Carries On, the Fox Film Corporation cast Swedish actor Warner Oland; the film became popular, and Fox went on to produce 15 more Chan films with Oland in the title role. After Oland's death, American actor Sidney Toler was cast as Chan; Toler made 22 Chan films, first for Fox and then for Monogram Studios. After Toler's death, six films were made, starring Roland Winters.

Readers and moviegoers of America greeted Chan warmly, seeing him as an attractive character who is portrayed as intelligent, heroic, benevolent, and honorable in contrast to the racist depictions of evil or conniving Asians which often dominated Hollywood and national media in the early 20th century.

However, in later decades critics increasingly took a more ambivalent view of the character, finding that despite his good qualities, Chan also reinforces condescending Asian stereotypes such as an alleged incapacity to speak idiomatic English and a tradition-bound and subservient nature. Many also now find it objectionable that the role was played on screen by Caucasian actors in yellowface. No Charlie Chan film has been produced since 1981.

The character has also been featured in several radio programs, two television shows, and comics.


.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

well i'm full asian, and what i'm learning from this thread is white people aren't offended by anything, and don't understand why the rest of the world can't brush aside the casual racism inflicted upon them every day.

I'm fully white, and I feel the same way you do. Causes a lot of "fun" discussions with the old men in my family.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Here's the 411 on Charlie Chan:



from wikipedia:



Charlie Chan is a fictional Honolulu police detective created by author Earl Derr Biggers for a series of mystery novels. Biggers loosely based Chan on Hawaiian detective Chang Apana.



The benevolent and heroic Chan was conceived as an alternative to Yellow Peril stereotypes and villains like Fu Manchu. Many stories feature Chan traveling the world beyond Hawaii as he investigates mysteries and solves crimes.



Chan first appeared in Biggers' novels and then was featured in a number of media.



Over four dozen films featuring Charlie Chan were made, beginning in 1926.



The character, featured only as a supporting character, was first portrayed by East Asian actors, and the films met with little success.



In 1931, for the first film centering on Chan, Charlie Chan Carries On, the Fox Film Corporation cast Swedish actor Warner Oland; the film became popular, and Fox went on to produce 15 more Chan films with Oland in the title role. After Oland's death, American actor Sidney Toler was cast as Chan; Toler made 22 Chan films, first for Fox and then for Monogram Studios. After Toler's death, six films were made, starring Roland Winters.



Readers and moviegoers of America greeted Chan warmly, seeing him as an attractive character who is portrayed as intelligent, heroic, benevolent, and honorable in contrast to the racist depictions of evil or conniving Asians which often dominated Hollywood and national media in the early 20th century.



However, in later decades critics increasingly took a more ambivalent view of the character, finding that despite his good qualities, Chan also reinforces condescending Asian stereotypes such as an alleged incapacity to speak idiomatic English and a tradition-bound and subservient nature. Many also now find it objectionable that the role was played on screen by Caucasian actors in yellowface. No Charlie Chan film has been produced since 1981.



The character has also been featured in several radio programs, two television shows, and comics.





.

Thanks I know how to use the internet. Haha.

My point was until the reference in this thread I hadn't heard of him. Yet Elmer Fudd, a character still in pop culture (including a current sports movie) would be a more likely imitation when saying "be vewy vewy careful" as that is similar to how he would say "be vewy vewy quiet".

[Snowman]

Completely ridiculous. Not funny at all. Dude should have been fired immediately IMO.

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

well i'm full asian, and what i'm learning from this thread is white people aren't offended by anything, and don't understand why the rest of the world can't brush aside the casual racism inflicted upon them every day.

Yep. I think this has a strong element of truth to it.

What's the difference whether you're picked on for being short, fat, dumb, cheap, a lousy golfer, or asian? It's all the same when you get right down to it - at least to me. I grew up in a neighborhood and an era where everyone picked on everyone else for anything and everything. My parents taught me that it's just words coming out of some idiot. Who cares? Laugh it off and get on with your iife - which, seems to be what Ohtani actually did, and I applaud him for it.

[packs]

I think it is easy to see the differences between stereotyping an entire population of people and saying a guy is fat. Stereotypes play to untruths. There is no commonality between the two things you're talking about.

[Jim65]

They should at least be consistent, I remember announcers poking fun at Joey Lucchesi's name, no one said a damn word. Its selective outrage.

[packs]

But why do you think that? You don't use a mock accent by accident and why would you use it in the first place? You are on television at work. If you did that in a meeting at your job after an Asian colleague presented something, you'd be in a lot of trouble too. Or don't you think so?

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

well i'm full asian, and what i'm learning from this thread is white people aren't offended by anything, and don't understand why the rest of the world can't brush aside the casual racism inflicted upon them every day.

It not that they arent, its just that they cant be. Amirite?


How insightful . I'm glad this forum was a microcosm for your view of "white people", aka Caucasians.

You are actually in the MAJORITY of the world, with almost 5 billion Asians.
Tread carefully, when you make blanket statements about minorities.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Thanks I know how to use the internet. Haha.

My point was until the reference in this thread I hadn't heard of him. Yet Elmer Fudd, a character still in pop culture (including a current sports movie) would be a more likely imitation when saying "be vewy vewy careful" as that is similar to how he would say "be vewy vewy quiet".

Forgive the educator in me. I had just returned from an Axe Throwing venue where I tried to explain who Ed Ames was.



.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't consider myself particularly PC, but I think we should be encouraging the people making racial remarks to stop rather than blaming the targets for not being tough enough.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by packs

Elmer Fudd sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking to me. He didn’t mention Elmer during his on air apology.

He also didn't mention the accent at all. His on-air apology made it seem that he thought people were upset at the wording not the accent.

I really don't know. Yet when I hear it I don't hear an Asian impression, I hear an Elmer Fudd impression. Only one person knows the true intent at the time an that is Jack. I only can speak to what I heard vs what I see many others heard.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

I think the lesson learned here is that cheap laughs are cheap for a reason. They're not funny and you could just not do that. While people might say "what's the big deal?" a better question would be "don't you realize you're not just talking to your buddies when you're on TV"?

Dammit Packs I agree with you a lot (except about Corey Dickerson) It was more fun to disagree with you about players than it is to agree with you on almost anything else.

In this case, more than racism, or being offensive, he should be punished for a stunning lack of judgement. Basically who in their right mind doesn't know, in this day and age, that doing what he did on TV would not be acceptable? More than anything else his crime was stupidity.

[packs]

I'm not an advocate for "cancel culture" but I'm really baffled by the response to these things. Why would anyone advocate for people to treat each other like this? Where does the "what's the big deal" attitude come from? And how can it possibly be a good thing to think that way? Why continue to excuse these behaviors if you can live in a world without them? What is lost?

[Cliff Bowman]

I recall packs gleefully making fun of a certain person on Net54 a couple of years ago for having ‘very small hands’. I found that deeply disturbing and I suffered deep emotional distress over it. I demand that packs retract that cruel and unnecessary slur and apologize for it and self suspend for a week.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I recall packs gleefully making fun of a certain person on Net54 a couple of years ago for having ‘very small hands’. I found that deeply disturbing and I suffered deep emotional distress over it. I demand that packs retract that cruel and unnecessary slur and apologize for it and self suspend for a week.

Probably edited it already

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

well i'm full asian, and what i'm learning from this thread is white people aren't offended by anything, and don't understand why the rest of the world can't brush aside the casual racism inflicted upon them every day.

This^^
It's easy to say something "isn't offensive" when you're the one who isn't being offended. The lack of empathy in this world is troubling.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by dgo71

This^^

It's easy to say something "isn't offensive" when you're the one who isn't being offended. The lack of empathy in this world is troubling.

It's not taught in current culture. And amid social media, and attack and boycott and harpoon, my high school kids see it as a soft skill that is outdated. Don't forget, nice guys finish last.

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[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Jack Morris was suspended from the Detroit broadcasting booth for saying " be very, very careful" when referring how to pitch to Ohtani. I was watching the game and I never even gave it a second thought. I guess he said it in a " Charlie Chan like voice ". I guess I don't understand the problem, are people that sensitive these days. I'm sure they can't watch, Charlie Chan movies, or Blazing Saddles.

while i think what Jack did is like a 3/10 on the issue scale and apology would have been enough....


Referencing 40 year old movies , is like saying "why cant we have slaves today? i guess they wouldnt have liked 1700s? softies..."

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by todeen

It's not taught in current culture. And amid social media, and attack and boycott and harpoon, my high school kids see it as a soft skill that is outdated. Don't forget, nice guys finish last.

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As a high school teacher I assume you know, developmentally, that high school kids generally lack empathy as adults do because their brains are not yet fully developed. Put a bunch of high school kids on a jury and they'll hang the guy every time. Most will get there though, so have faith.

Something "offensive" is just a way to say it hurts your feelings. We all have different levels of sensitivity, but it just seems like many people these days are screaming about something being offensive just because they think they're supposed to in order to be thought of as a good person, but not because they're actually offended. I think this is a trend we especially see in young people.

It just seems like what we see so often today is people being called out for every little possible thing that could possibly offend even one person - just because it's the trendy thing to do.

Jack Morris has been an ass since he was a player here in the 70's, but it's not up to me to decide if what he did was offensive. I'm not asian, and I don't own the Tigers. Ohtani laughed it off. Does Morris deserve to be fired? I wouldn't have hired him in the first place, but it's really none of my business, is it?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

As a high school teacher I assume you know, developmentally, that high school kids generally lack empathy as adults do because their brains are not yet fully developed. Put a bunch of high school kids on a jury and they'll hang the guy every time. Most will get there though, so have faith.

I believe modeling good behavior is what builds competent adults. So even though high school kids lack empathy, modeling empathy is how they can develop it. A person who has not seen baseball cannot begin to imitate it.

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[drcy]

An apology, expression of understanding of the error, and acceptance of apology usually are enough.

Seems to be too much over-the-top reactions, and expecting people to be perfect (including 10 years back on their twitter), these days.