Beginnings, Personal Drummers and Adult Card Hobby Preferences...

[jchcollins]

For a while now, I’ve been trying to put a thread I guess on what I’m trying to imply by the subject of this post. I realize that there are likely psychology books out there on the subject of all manners of “collectors” and why we do what we do, (and I might be scared to open a can of worms by ever reading them…)

But it got me to thinking about the journey, why we continue - and along the way - exactly WHY is it that most of us find such perpetual joy in hoarding away old pieces of cardboard with pictures of men in uniforms on them?

Do you / did you enjoy or possibly treasure cards like this 35 years ago?




If you did but maybe don't so much now - why?

That may be a bit rhetorical; I assume all of us who have made it to N54 and stayed here as grown people at some point discovered actual vintage cards, found them to be extremely captivating, and launched upon a journey to want more and more of them, and increasingly nicer ones and more expensive ones. I was fascinated by some of the TCMA history cards, and any image of Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb or characters like that on cardboard when I was 10 years old, but quickly came to learn that these were not "real" cards issued when they were playing, and in some cases hadn't even been issued when they were alive. Case in point for me and what "does it" for me these days? - yeah you guessed it, stuff like this:






I guess what I'm kind of curious about is your thoughts as concerns the possibility of paradigm shifts. Do you like or value at all "Non-Playing Days" cards? For me for the longest time I couldn't understand why anyone would want a card like this:



The example here is Yogi, but there are lots of others with the same point to be made in the '67 Venezuelan set, including a very recently retired Sandy Koufax. One and most obvious to me as a kid - Yogi Berra was retired by 1967. He was what, a Mets coach by then? Having caught his last few games for them in 1965. Two, this is a terrible black and white picture. Three, even as if I didn't know, you are splashing out the fact that he is RETIRED (or "Retirado") in bold red letters under his picture. What in the world? Why would I want that? You might as well write in spanish "OLD AND NOT COOL" on the bottom. (A footnote here that of course now at age 46, I understand that these cards are both super condition sensitive and rare, and their value from a dollar perspective makes more sense to me. I just think it's interesting that judging from any criteria I would have carried as a kid as to both what made a vintage card cool and valuable - I would have shunned these all day long).

The triggers to seize upon here are more related to hobby history (the scarce '67 Topps Vennies...) and not so much the player and when he was active. Right? To note also the same point, though the cards are not as valuable - the 1940 Playballs that feature retired players like Wagner and Shoeless Joe, etc.

If you collect cards like these - question for you: Do you get more enjoyment out of the fact of the card being rare or the set? Or the player it pictures? Or both? Or design or something else? Curious really just as to thought process here and what makes something "treasured" in your mind for your collection?

For starters - when we were kids, at least those of us who grew of age with cards BEFORE social media, or YouTube videos, or maybe even before a monthly subscription to Dr. Beckett’s magazine - how did you start with cards? What initially gave you joy / satisfaction about those cards? Was it the cards for the cards themselves and the glee of owning them? Was it the tie to the game of baseball (or basketball or football or hockey or whatever) itself and the players or teams because you were familiar with them? I’ll give you a stumper, I started as a card collector at age 9 not with sports cards - but with these things. I'm not sure what attracted to me to them other than they made me laugh and were visually cool, other than the fact that everyone at school was collecting them:



Here are some other things I briefly jotted down that I thought might be interesting to explore. If you've lost my plot here, it's kind of "how do I get enjoyment out of different things perhaps" (cheaper would be nice, but not necessarily the only requirement) by broadening my horizons? These points might not answer that question directly, but could lead to discussion that would:


* Topps wax at the 7-11 vs. the “Hygrade Collectors Kit” (there were also others) at the mall bookstore. What types of cards were you exposed to first?

* Impressive, high-dollar vintage vs. screw that, here’s what does it for me personally. What voices are in your head - do they conflict?

* Fantasy cards, cards that never were, Topps Archives and Heritage concepts. Junk or really cool?

* Baseball nostalgia, then nostalgia for "the hobby" itself. (Which yes, the organized hobby itself is old now...) When you look at your collection where does your head go?


Thanks & Happy Friday!

[Harliduck]

That's a lot to unpack there John...but good stuff...

I can speak to the first section...the "newer" cards of the all time greats. When I was a kid collecting in the early 80's I knew all those names, but had NO access to any of there cards. There was a kid at school who had a beat up 76 Hank Aaron and he was a GOD. Haha. That said, those cards you posted, I remember them all, and stuff by Pacific cards and such...were super cool just so I could have a Babe Ruth or an Aaron card...and possibly see their unworldly stats in all their full glory. Those cards were coveted by me and my age group...but as we get older...and of course with the advent of Ebay and other buying options...the world got smaller and cards that were unobtainable and only witnessed in books were now available, and being an adult, affordable...

I look at my collection now and I think my 12 year old self would have dropped dead in disbelief at what I have...and as you said, those "newer" cards now don't serve the purpose they once did. I have zero interest, and funny enough, they hold no nostalgic place with me...weird now that I think about it.

Anyway...good post!

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

That's a lot to unpack there John...

Yes, sorry. Unusually lengthy for me, and contains a lot of "thinking out loud", but part of that was on purpose so that it can be unpacked.

I'm much like you. I ate those cards up as a kid, but after I moved on to real vintage - rarely looked back. It just struck me as funny because I know for some collectors (a minority maybe, but still I've met them) those cards are even more special because it's a more direct memory to their childhood and that means more to them. Wondering if I'm missing out on something perhaps by being stuck so rigidly in my current paradigm.

[ALBB]

I never enjoyed the loads of " all time great sets" when they came out, never cared for the SSPC stuff of the late 70s either .

Alway looked as that stuff as " not real ", and my hobby money always went elsewhere

[deweyinthehall]

The first "cards" I ever had were those stickers and other inserts you could find in Wonder Bread packages in the early-to-mid-70s. Usually they had a Disney or Super Hero tie in, and they featured some funny license plate or college pennant parodies or some such. I only ever had a few, none saved, but as I got older and had more disposable income I did go back and acquire complete sets of perhaps 6 or 7 of these series (culminating in the Star Wars set from 1977).

The first pack of cards I ever opened was Topps Happy Days - again, never saved past the first month I had them but I went back and purchased complete sets of both series a few years ago.

With both the Wonder Bread and Happy Days sets, when I look through them today I can still recognize a handful of specific ones I know I had back in the day originally, and that gives me a really nice sense of nostaglia.

It wasn't until the spring of 1978 that I personally discovered baseball cards.
Remember the old Scholastic magazine, Dynamite? Each spring for a few years there, they'd include a small uncut panel of 6 of the new Topps cards. In the spring 1978 issue I received Tony Perez, Darrell Porter, Al Oliver and Cecil Cooper (two from a double print row, I know now, so only 4 different for me).

From that moment, and I can't explain why, I was hooked. I can still remember learning that you could get packs containing more of these at the store! How incredible was that?!? I can clearly recall that my first wax pack contained, among forgotten others, Jose Baez, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle RB, Rick Manning and George Hendrick.

I remember well seeing a couple 'old' 1977s one of my friends had - even though they opened the pack less than 12 months before, it still felt to my 10 year old brain that I was looking at some ancient relic. Then, when the spring of 1979 came around and I saw the first selection of 1979 cellos in a bin at McCrory's, I remember thinking "they come out with a new set EVERY year?!?"

I think most people learn about the game first and are then drawn to the cards - I had the cards and that is what drew me to the game. It was the cards that taught me new guys came along each year and that some players actually changed teams every so often.

From the outset, I always pursued the new Topps set each year, and I tried to get older cards from previous years - some of friends had small stacks of dog-eared '76s, '75s and 74s they gifted me. Then I discovered card shops, shows, and it was off to the races.

For me, I know that I am by nature a 'collector' - if I have one of something that is part of a series, I have a hard time not trying to acquire more. If I never discovered cards, I'd have a house full of vintage Star Wars, Legos, TV Guides or something else.

[laughlinfan]

I'm guessing somebody could do a whole psychology course (or more) on us collectors. Having been collecting for over 50 years, it is certainly a combination of many things for me. Have many items from when I was a kid that still make me smile with great memories of family members who helped me find stuff for sure. Growing up there was always the challenge and thrill of putting together a complete set of whatever I was chasing, but I was certainly less focused on completing sets as I got older. Nice items for players or teams I really liked will always catch my interest, certainly because of the happy memories they evoke. And to be honest, almost everything I collect or buy now my mind will say "That's cool!" - and having it be something that other people are looking for or would like is part of the equation for sure. I stopped collecting mainstream cards over 30 years ago when the glut came, and manufactured scarcities like 1 of x short printed cards do nothing for me. Finding unusual, scarce, or better yet one of a kind items like production art still gets my heart pumping! Funny thing is no one in my family collects, I never have friends over to look at stuff, but it still makes me happy to sit on a mountain of stuff from the past 55 years, and when I look at different items I have, my mind still says "That's cool!"

[Volod]

Very interesting and thought provoking thread. On the specific subject of "All Time Great"-type issues, my only encounter with such cards happened to be maybe the most poignant of all of my collecting memories. When I was nine years old, my father made time to take a road trip to Cooperstown, about fifty miles from our home. He took my brother and me along, perhaps only grudgingly when my mother requested it. After walking through the HOF, I can recall noticing a display of souvenir items for sale, one of which was the Callahan HOF set in a small box. Since my brother and I had been collecting Bowman cards for a year or more, I pointed the Callahans out to him and we both probably expressed great interest. This apparently caused my father to spring for the cost, likely just a few bucks at that time, but it is one of the fondest memories I have of stuff that my old man ever handed to me. Of course, like so much other childhood memorabilia that evaporated in the next few years, that rather obscure set of cards was lost and forgotten until about fifty years later when I stumbled upon it at a card show in Strongsville. Looking at the set later brought back a flood of memories, of my father, brother and my own early fascination with baseball and little pieces of pasteboard.

[JollyElm]

The 'All Time Greats' stuff just went into my brothers' and my junk piles (along with checklists and other non-specific-team oriented cards), and I've never forgiven Topps for using the exact same picture for both of Ty Cobb's entries in the 1973 set. C'mon Topps!!! That's lazy.

Later on, though, I became a bit fascinated with those 1973s as well as the ones from 1976. When our school had those days...were they called Scholastic Learning or something?...where mom gave you money to buy really cool books, I started grabbing ones about the All-Time Greats, and began reading up about ancient players like Pie Traynor (His name is Pie, really???) or Rogers Hornsby (Is his first name misspelled? Did I discover an error??). So those cards were a springboard to looking back over the history of the game.

Like Marty a couple of posts up, I absolutely love the sets Robert Laughlin created - virtually (or actually) all of which are of the look-back variety, with rarely a 'current' player being included. That stuff is WICKED COOL to me and I'm on a non-stop voyage in trying to upgrade my 1967 Laughlin World Series set.

No one within a country mile of me inside of my own family collects or appreciates baseball cards these days.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

The[B] That stuff is WICKED COOL to me and I'm on a non-stop voyage in trying to upgrade my 1967 Laughlin World Series set.

No one within a country mile of me inside of my own family collects or appreciates baseball cards these days.

I think that Laughlin card where Mantle breaks the WS HR record in '64 is wicked cool too. It was issued when he was still an active player. I just can't bring myself to pay what they go for anymore.

Nobody in my family cares about cards either, Jolly. I feel you.

[laughlinfan]

OK, different collecting venue, but same vibe. This meme has different conversations, but this is generally how it goes when I talk to my wife about my latest cool find...

I have to say that I have little interest in many of the post career sets like you pictured in the first post, but there are some that the quality/aesthetics/character pull me right in. 1961 Golden Press. Rold Gold/Kelloggs 3D All Time Greats. Some of the Upper Deck Masterpiece cards of former players. I even like the TCMA stars of the 50s and 60s sets with the 53 Bowman-esque pure card fronts (one of which was in the first post). And, of course, the Laughlin sets. I don't mind one bit that many of the cards and Stand-ups he created were of retired players.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by laughlinfan

OK, different collecting venue, but same vibe. This meme has different conversations, but this is generally how it goes when I talk to my wife about my latest cool find...

LOL, exactly. I sent this meme to a Rush fan friend of mine just last week!

[D. Bergin]

Two of my favorite cards I remember having when I was a kid.

1976T Ty Cobb - Just look at that shot! There isn't a clearer shot in the entire 1976T Set, unless you count the Traded Cards, which I hated. Look at that pose! It's Ty freakin' Cobb. I'll never have a Ty Cobb card otherwise.

Not to mention the almost crazy and fantastical stats listed on the back of the card.

I know Babe Ruth was in that set...and I was a huge Yankee fan...but he just looked...I don't know...not prime. Just a boring Babe shot.



The other card:

1979T Jack Chesbro/Cy Young card - Not for the Cy Young, though that was cool for his 500 something wins...which in those days was like reading that Noah lived to be like 900 years old or something...and you're like "No way is that true, man...no way!"

...but for the Jack Chesbro. I was in the throes of Ron Guidry mania when the 1979's came out...and he had just had one of the greatest seasons for a pitcher in baseball history (or at least Yankee history). I remember opening up a pack and seeing that card and knowing who Cy Young was...and thinking to myself...who the hell is Jack Chesbro, and why is he on the same card as Cy Young. Imagine my surprise when I looked on the back, and saw he was a Yankee. Why had none of my extended family who had indoctrinated me into Yankee culture since before I was even old enough to walk or talk, never mentioned Jack Chesbro to me? How the hell did he win 16 more games then Ron Guidry in a single season...and how come nobody cares about that anymore?

It really sent me into a spiral.


Anyways, don't have much of a connection to those kinds of cards anymore...but back then, they certainly helped nurture my obsession with baseball and sports history in general.

[Exhibitman]

I think I get the gist of the OP. For me, it was three issues that got me interested:

1973 Topps all time leaders. Reading the top 10 on each card back was an education.

1975 Topps MVPs. To this day I still get a bit of a buzz from them.

1976 Topps ATG subset. I worked so hard to finish that set that year.

Then there was what turned out to be a 1961 Golden Press Cobb. I got that in a collection and thought it was really special.

Right now, I still pursue SSPC and TCMA cards, various Laughlin cards, the 1961 GP cards, and the 1960 Fleer ATG cards. The ones from the 1980s leave me cold. By the time they started flowing I'd already departed the scene not to return until the late 1980s, so I have no warm fuzzies of them.

[steve B]

I've collected various things pretty much my whole life.
My grandmother got me started with stamps and coins, and I added rocks, shells, insects, old bottles and insulators.... bought all of one pack in 69, another in 71. 73 moved to a new town and all the kids were doing cards.

And what a great time to start too.
Got to see the end of Willie Mays career, The Dolphins going unbeaten, Aaron breaking the record, the Red Sox almost winning the series, It seemed like every new season in every sport brought something amazing.

The Hank Aaron specials in the 74 set made me aware of cards older than I knew. Got my first "vintage" card from a friend, a 68 Matthews.
New town again in late 77, and a town that had a baseball card store with all sorts of cards. It became a hangout for me.

I've added other collectibles, and still keep up a bit with my other hobbies, sometimes more, sometimes less.

[mrmopar]

I was thinking about something similar the other day. I truly like a little bit of everything. I can appreciate a T206 as much as a 2023 refractor as much as a 1970s TCMA collector issue. For many years, I would read through catalogs and price guides, putting together checklists of cards that looked and or sounded appealing.

In fact, the regular issue cards tend to be a bit boring and lower priority for me because everyone had them. i liked the odd stuff that was less commonly seen. I am lucky that I got a lot of that stuff when ebay was developing into the site it is today. I can still buy 1968 Topps Nolan Ryan cards until i run out of money, but finding a nice Stahl Meyer or Wilson Franks is a different story.

I guess all this to say that I may sometimes like a cheap collector issue or base Topps card as much as i do a vintage HOF worth $100s-1000s.

In addition, I have completely fallen for signed cards, non-certified got me started, but the pack certified cards that come out each year are my main target these days. I just can't get enough signed cards, certified or otherwise.

[Seven]

I've always liked collecting, regardless of what it was. I'm a bit on the younger end of regular posters on the forum but I can break down what I collected. Baseball and Pokemon cards were the two primary focus from a very young age. The latter was whatever was shiny, the former were cards my father handed down to me, or the occasional pack of cards that I was given.

A lot of stories of collecting were exchanged as well. My Father told me many times, about the cards he collected, and how he always looked forward to putting the cards of star players, on his bicycle. The amount of Mantle's he went through was a staggering amount, as he loved the Mick. Something that was eventually passed down to me.

I really appreciated any and all cards, even the novelty "vintage" ones. I remember receiving a set of 1933 Goudey Reprint Cards one year for Christmas because I was always interested in the "Big Three" of Ruth, Foxx and Gehrig. 9 year old me, didn't care that they were reprints, I just thought they were cool. I was collecting for enjoyment.

I still think I collect for enjoyment, I just understand the financial ramifications nowadays. I still appreciate the random commons of vintage players, such my 1952 Topps Johnny Mize, Just as I appreciate my t206 Eddie Collins. I have noticed the more I learn about players from our past through various forms of media, the more I want to own some of their cards.

I'm not sure if many on this forum are familiar with the game Out of the Park Baseball, but the premise is you can pick a team from any point in history and play out a sort of fictional retelling of baseball. During the many hours I sunk into the game, I found myself growing attached to a pitcher, Tex Carlton. In real life, Carlton was serviceable and had some solid seasons for the Cardinals in the 1930's. In the game, however? Carlton was a world beater! He won 350+ games for the New York Yankees, in this fictional historic universe. It made me want to own a card of him! Which I purchased.

I'm rambling a bit at this point but I think this much is clear, I'm still collecting for the enjoyment. Reprints, and random vintage commons and all!

[Exhibitman]

I find as I am getting into my 5th decade of collecting that my interests are more esoteric and obscure, and low cost. I was always more interested in offbeat and oddball card issues than mainstream, but now it has slipped into non-traditional sports, non-sports, premiums, team issues, and photos. Thankfully, not publications. The projects I enjoy the most right now are:

--Vintage NASCAR postcards
--Prewar Art Nouveau and Art Deco prints and postcards from Japan
--Comedians and musicians cards and photos
--Sports photos, especially vintage snapshots.
--Matchbooks and matchbox labels
--Nonsports

Almost none of it is valuable or expensive as compared to sports cards.

[Kutcher55]

Not a fan of SSPC. The whole project feels unauthentic to me although that is more a belief based on emotion than fact.

In terms of the conflict between nice high grade cards and ungraded junkers, I accept both into my collection but I tend to compartmentalize. All my Yaz base cards must be PSA 7+ and I like it that way, but for my 1960-1990 HOF RC collection it's all ungraded and there are a lot of poor cards in there -- both the Seaver and Ryan would grade 1 if I sent them in and that's ok. Other than feeling like my collection "should" have these iconic cards in them, I don't feel a huge emotional attachment to them, whereas Yaz was my guy growing up. That doesn't mean I have zero emotional attachment to those cards or I wouldn't own them in the first place.

There's an element to my collecting of "if I die I would want the people who find my collection to be impressed," which is silly of course and perhaps emblematic of human limitations, or at least my own.

For reasons illustrated above I have shifted away from high priced examples of Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Clemente, etc. The ones I have are all raw and mostly low grade. Several have great centering and eye appeal and a few do not, although I have pared down the ones that don't. Gone are my Brooks Robinson and Bob Gibson RCs -- I had them in beautiful midgrade examples but I sold them and replaced them with Red Sox pre-war because I'm a Red Sox fan and I decided I wanted my Sox collection to be more impressive. Oddly, I also branched out to 21st century Red Sox cards this year. They are mostly super cheap. I buy ungraded. Hell, these guys won 4 championships, so I want the Ortiz, Manny, Varitek, Lester, Pappelbon, Wakefield, Elsbury, Beckett, Koji, Victorino, Gomez, even a-hole Curt Schilling, Bellhorn, Pedro, Damon, Youk, the Drew brothers, etc. represented in my collection. Much of what Topps has produced in the 21st century is not to my liking, but they made a few awesome sets, particularly 2011.

[Phishphan21]

I quit reading OP at “case in point “


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[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Phishphan21

I quit reading OP at “case in point “


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Appreciate your valuable contribution.


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[ALR-bishop]

I started collecting as a kid in 1957. The first set I completed was 1959 Topps which is a sentimental favorite. Ultimately collected Topps, Bowman and Fleer baseball. But from younger days had some 61 Fleer football and basketball, so completed those and they are my only mainstream non baseball sets. The 61 Fleer set is neat because all the pics are without helmets with clear facial views and checklisted in order by team. I like the 61 Fleer set because my uncle had season tickets to the Hawks games and he often took me. I actually got to see all the players in the set play

I also have a 13 card Essex Meats St Louis Hawks set ( Hawks were in St Louis until mid 60s) and an 8 Mayrose Meats St. Louis Cardinals football set ( they are now in Phoenix). On a good day I almost think I can still smell the bacon

There is a 14th card possible to the Hawks Essex Meats set, Sihugo Green, but I have never seen one.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Appreciate your valuable contribution.


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Now that is funny.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I also have a 13 card Essex Meats St Louis Hawks set ( Hawks were in St Louis until mid 60s) and an 8 Mayrose Meats St. Louis Cardinals football set ( they are now in Phoenix). On a good day I almost think I can still smell the bacon

As a kid in the late 1980's, true food issues weren't really a thing anymore. Maybe the Quaker or Nestle cards - I remember having some of those, but they were always airbrushed to remove the logos. Bleeeech.

[71buc]

Adam I love that Bruce Lee Return of the Dragon card. I’ve been collecting baseball since 1971 and that Bruce brought back more nostalgia than anything posted here. There are a lot of trees here in the PNW. The 10 year old version of me side kicked quite a few “O'Hara” Pines back in the day.

[Empty77]

I recognize that MVP Clemente in the OP, but hadn't thought about it in forever. I had it and can recall that as my only Clemente and possibly the oldest-seeming thing I owned, it got prize positioning in one of the 2 or 3 scratched up top loaders I had accumulated second-hand. (I displayed my best stuff out on a bookshelf.)

This was pre-internet or at least pre-internet ubiquity, and not living in a big city or a particularly sports-inclined region, I only had access to new packs in the grocery store check-out aisle and the toy/sports section of the JCPenny mail-order catalogue. I didn't have a whole set so must have traded for it somehow.

At some point I found a place called 'Collector's Corner' in the phone book and convinced my mom to drive an hour across town to this place which was like Eden to me. I bought my first 'real' Clemente there: a 1962 with corners so rounded, fluffy paper particles were practically wafting off of it. But it was a real contemporarily-issued card and now mine. I suspect at that point something in my mind switched over and I haven't looked back since.

Since then my collecting is limited to playing years. While I can't know exactly why that is, it feels like something to do with a sense of scarcity---like that the playing-years issues feel real and now limited, whereas 'best-of' and 'All-time' type reminiscence cards can be made year after year endlessly.

While I can appreciate why others may enjoy them, they are largely meaningless to me, even that TCMA issue that was my first. And I'm guessing that's probably a healthy thing, since I suspect there's a fine line between collecting and 'hoarding'. There's clearly too much product out there for any of us to have everything. And so anything any one person can look at and have no desire at all to accumulate, must indicate they're still on the sane side of the line?

[Eric72]

My first introduction to retired baseball players via cardboard were the Laughlin cards of the '70s. Two series I had cards from as a kid were the Famous Feats and Worlds Series cards. I feel as much nostalgia for those as I do for '77 to '80 Topps cards. All of them "bring me back" to the days of my youth. Each one is like a miniature time capsule, storing memories and emotions from my childhood.

Somehow, I think a picture's value is often much more than a thousand words.