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  #1  
Old 05-06-2021, 02:16 PM
thatguywithadot thatguywithadot is offline
Avery Singh II
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Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Washington
Posts: 56
Default Fake 1968 Topps Milton Bradley Nolan Ryan Rookies out there!

Did not see a thread made for this identification yet so i am creating one to illustrate and point it out for posterity. Been seeing the Milton Bradley Ryan rookie being faked at an alarming rate as of late where it used to be a one off occurrence before. So many minute details are off of course like any counterfeit card that is decent but with this Topps issue the front imageries frequency rate of color fill for Black border Lines and Mets Symbol coupled with the enriched magenta brilliance to capture the skin color of jerry and Nolan it makes it pretty simple to identify these fakes on the fly when you see them.
In the event you think those elements are ok because you've seen some variance in slab just remember not all details share that variance and i will make a checklist below to go over

1. Imagery should always be crisp when authentic and not resemble a haze or fuzzy outline of faces or hands balls etc when under zoom or just your naked eye.

2. Vibrant robust inks and imagery should always be present in areas the lighting of the portrait utilized dictates i.e sunlight on the skin at the specific zone in the image. Hair strands should even be able to be seen on arms and in the head of players when shown! Even when faded a card will still exhibit a skeletal version of brilliance in the correct areas intended to!

Many topps issues from the 60s on utilized an ink that fluoresces heavily under blacklight on the team names and player names (specifically the big bold areas of lettering in the front) I believe this is due to the effects of the naked eye to be drawn to elements that refract light in ways we don't even process to give off a higher quality feel to things and a little pop!

3. Most if not 99% of counterfeits on the market will be utilizing current technology printing available which uses an overabundance of much lower quality magenta ink to try and create a lifelike feel to organic things but does so by basically infusing it across the entire imagery as the warm tone psychologically invokes good positive emotions and lifelike qualities! Meaning you should see a duller more warm toned inking across the entirety of a counterfeit card in ways it becomes crystal clear once i attach some variating examples of real one to this posting thread.

4. Due to cost effectiveness for modern use, printers utilize half toning just like the production companies however its is not a tight scatter plot or tighter grouped atypically and has a "looser" structure to it overall! if it is a high level counterfeit you will see a production style print signature BUT it will not have color fill where it should and colors will still be off on the hue scale and in best cases minute gradients.

5. The Areas of a card that should exhibit color fill to create enough contrast to relay better overall imagery crispness will not have it! It will be half toned and in high level examples just glossing over a card you might think the lines that border the portrait of cards that are supposed to be bold are or the color fill bubbles of some set or clothing hats etc that should be are not and in fact half tone printed giving away the fakery it is.

6. Possibly the easiest thing to spot to me, if the color change is not so obvious for some due to inexperience studying enough cards or just eyesight issues, Is the fill and thickness or lack thereof of lettering and the writing on the backside of cards as it will always be off in many different respects in minute fashion. Either too skinny where it should be fatter and bold or vice versa.

7. Many cards in the vintage realm if not all when inspected closely will have a sort of "fingerprint" or identifying mark to t hem from the printing process unique to that card specifically in terms of damage or print defect placement or toning issues etc that will relay easily on the fly as counterfeits to my knowledge have yet to present "Fish Eyes" or other print defects that occurr in the commercial productions.

8. Obviously most counterfeits will have amazing centering HOWEVER i have been tracking an alarming amount in past 18 months coming to market in off centered form to slide past this assumption that people use for all reprinted cards! Don't fall victim to this and make sure to always inspect every card. They will always have minute differences from one to the next but should never differentiate in the core identifiers that are present on every major production!

Half tone printing is sometimes referred to as dot matrix and this is correct and incorrect. Nevertheless just understand the printing signature of the card you are buying buy having cheap commons from the set and you will always be fine!

If you are in person a good old sniff test definitely helps set the pace as old cardstock has a distinct smell that gets stronger with more age! Also buying a stack of cheap cards from any set that you are pursuing the big time cards from gives you real in hand examples to study first hand and is invaluable!! Remember, not spending the extra 20 to 30 bucks it would take to buy a small stack and few cheap graded ones can end up costing you even more cascading money out of your pocket down the line!

Jeweler's Loupe 10x
Blacklight
measuring device aka mini ruler or tape measure.

Out of all these 3 tools you should have at a minimum i go a little overboard and utilize loupes to 60 x at different intervals and then inspect high level cards on a lcd screen microscope 50-1000x magnification to ensure nothing gets missed and also document slabbed items fresh this way to archive the grades and notes with photos to ensure a better understanding rather than doing the old my eyes work just fine trick as you do not want to waste time energy and money subbing cards you don't want too multiple times or being disappointed when you are not projecting accurately for yourself! Definitely helps tremendously in not being surprised as often by what pops when subs get released to shipping and being more disappointed than happy! I could go on and on but I'm sure you'll hear differing opinions just like anything so just remember to do your due diligence when throwing your hard earned cash around out there in this digital age!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11479617425...m=114796174259

Last edited by thatguywithadot; 05-07-2021 at 06:40 AM. Reason: additional info and ebay link to referenced fake listing
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2021, 02:40 PM
thatguywithadot thatguywithadot is offline
Avery Singh II
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Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguywithadot View Post
Did not see a thread made for this identification yet so i am creating one to illustrate and point it out for posterity. Been seeing the Milton Bradley Ryan rookie being faked at an alarming rate as of late where it used to be a one off occurrence before. So many minute details are off of course like any counterfeit card that is decent but with this Topps issue the front imageries frequency rate of color fill for Black border Lines and Mets Symbol coupled with the enriched magenta brilliance to capture the skin color of jerry and Nolan it makes it pretty simple to identify these fakes on the fly when you see them.
In the event you think those elements are ok because you've seen some variance in slab just remember not all details share that variance and i will make a checklist below to go over

1. Imagery should always be crisp when authentic and not resemble a haze or fuzzy outline of faces or hands balls etc when under zoom or just your naked eye.

2. Vibrant robust inks and imagery should always be present in areas the lighting of the portrait utilized dictates i.e sunlight on the skin at the specific zone in the image. Hair strands should even be able to be seen on arms and in the head of players when shown! Even when faded a card will still exhibit a skeletal version of brilliance in the correct areas intended to!

3. Most if not 99% of counterfeits on the market will be utilizing current technology printing available which uses an overabundance of much lower quality magenta ink to try and create a lifelike feel to organic things but does so by basically infusing it across the entire imagery as the warm tone psychologically invokes good positive emotions and lifelike qualities! Meaning you should see a duller more warm toned inking across the entirety of a counterfeit card in ways it becomes crystal clear once i attach some variating examples of real one to this posting thread.

4. Due to cost effectiveness for modern use printers utilize half toning just like the production companies however its is not a tight scatter plot or tighter grouped atypically and has a "looser" structure to it overall! if it is a high level counterfeit you will see a production style print signature BUT it will not have color fill where it should and colors will still be off on the hue scale and in best cases minute gradients.

5. The Areas of a card that should exhibit color fill to create enough contrast to relay better overall imagery crispness will not have it! It will be half toned and in high level examples just glossing over a card you might think the lines that border the portrait of cards that are supposed to be bold are or the color fill bubbles of some set or clothing hats etc that should be are not and in fact half tone printed giving away the fakery it is.

6. Possibly the easiest thing to spot to me, if the color change is not so obvious for some due to inexperience studying enough cards or just eyesight issues, Is the fill and thickness or lack thereof of lettering and the writing on the backside of cards as it will always be off ion many different respects in minute fashion. Either too skinny where it should be fatter and bold or vice versa.

If you are in person a good old sniff test definitely helps set the pace as old cardstock has a distinct smeller that gets stronger with more age along with buying a stack of cheap cards from any set that you are pursuing the big time cards from! Remember not spending the extra 20 to 30 bucks it would take to buy a small stack and few cheap graded ones can end up costing you even more cascading money out of your pocket down the line!

Jeweler's Loupe 10x
Blacklight
measuring device aka mini ruler or tape measure.

Out of all these 3 tools you should have at a minimum i go a little overboard and utilize loupes to 60 x at different intervals and then inspect high level cards on a lcd screen microscope 50-1000x magnification to ensure nothing gets missed and also document slabbed items fresh this way to archive the grades and notes with photos to ensure a better understanding rather than doing the old my eyes work just fine trick as you do not want to waste time energy and money subbing cards you don't want too multiple times or being disappointed when you are not projecting accurately for yourself! Definitely helps tremendously in not being surprised as often by what pops when subs get released to shipping and being more disappointed than happy! I could go on and on but I'm sure you'll hear differing opinions just like anything so just remember to do your due diligence when throwing your hard earned cash around out there in this digital age!

1968 Topps #177 Nolan Ryan & Jerry Koosman Rookie Card - Mets HOF | eBay
Attached the pictures of the listing i am showing to everyone that is fake!

next will attach various real snaps
Attached Images
File Type: jpg nolan fake.jpg (76.7 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg nolan fake 2.jpg (70.0 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg nolan fake 3.jpg (77.9 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg nolan fake 4.jpg (76.3 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg nolan fake 5.jpg (76.3 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg nolan fake 6.jpg (76.9 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg nolan fake 7.jpg (73.3 KB, 115 views)
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  #3  
Old 05-06-2021, 03:16 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
Al Richter
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 7,209
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Good post. Glad I put together my 68 MB set in the 80s and 90s. There are some very good MB threads in here. Carlton Miller, goheels here, has been my go to guy on the set

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...LiQwKyy.vPZJA-

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...61smVa4D7MV4g-

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 05-06-2021 at 03:25 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-06-2021, 05:34 PM
horzverti's Avatar
horzverti horzverti is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 819
Default 68 Ryan MB ID

I collect MB cards and there is an easy to “spot” identifier on the front of every 1968 Ryan Milton Bradley card. There is a black smudge in the letter T in the word STARS. It can be seen on all MB Ryans and it doesn’t show up on regular issue Topps Ryan RCs.

I haven’t heard or read of this identifier. It is just something I noticed by handling many cards. I wanted an easier way to id the MBs regardless of centering (location of white edges) and if there wasn’t a pic of the back of the card (yellower color).

I have started selling some of my Ryans, so I figured it is time to share this identifier.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 92FB8B7C-C2D6-473A-B88E-3ABE251F206B.jpg (20.6 KB, 96 views)
__________________
Cur! H0++an

Last edited by horzverti; 05-06-2021 at 06:12 PM.
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  #5  
Old 05-06-2021, 05:57 PM
thatguywithadot thatguywithadot is offline
Avery Singh II
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Location: Washington
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Absolutely true haha i feel you on holding that tight and i always find it more educational to cover more of the inspection process that details all cards really to not give shortcuts we "gain" from learning the fundamentals like that lol
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