Any player cards you dont collect because of morals

[G1911]

I went diving into the story here of this sad incident.

Robertson murdered a policeman on the street on a "forenoon", Deputy Sherriff Phillip Fatch. NY Times Article is here, though I can only read the abstract (https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm...l-richard.html).

It appears that he was accused of assault, and two policemen came to arrest him. This unsourced marker, clearly and heavily biased to the most charitable view of Robertson possible, (https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=202593) claims "When two white deputies arrived to arrest Mr. Robertson, he objected and ultimately fled after an exchange of gunfire left all three wounded." It seems that there is little doubt he murdered a cop and shot another, who appears to have been making a lawful arrest. I can find nothing on if Robertson was guilty or not of the original assault, which is probably lost to time and only the claimed victims really knew, possibly the police if they had provided evidence. Robertson was shot by his victims three times as well. After Fatch succumbed to his wounds, a mob removed him from his cell and "fired several shots" and hung him. I interpret this to mean the poor man was given a coup de grace before being strung up, that's usually what this kind of phrasing meant at that time.

There are efforts for this memorial to Robertson and its final placement, which is apparently a hot topic in Mobile (https://www.al.com/news/2022/07/cont...-happened.html). Advocates of the memorial, which they wanted to place where a statue of the cancelled Raphael Semmes used to stand, claimed they were unaware of the allegation Robertson committed murder, which seems absolutely impossible to credibly believe as the memorial does include that fact, though phrased in the most charitable way.

What a sad and thoroughly unnecessary human tragedy all around, with 2 deaths and another probably seriously wounded person. A lynching is, should be needless too say, a horrible thing, as is the denial of due process rights, especially when the guilty party is already in custody and no longer a meaningful threat to the public. So is committing murder in the first place, Fatch seems to have done nothing wrong here as far as I have read, he served a legitimate warrant for arrest on assault charges, for those charges to be heard in court. As to the modern controversy, I do not think at this point I will ever understand the cancellation of historical figures to be replaced with similar statues, memorials and commemorations of people who are not historical figures and evidently committed objectively horrible crimes, but are more amenable to the narratives of those doing said cancelling. There seem to be many victims in this saga, and no heroes.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by G1911

I went diving into the story here of this sad incident.

Robertson murdered a policeman on the street on a "forenoon", Deputy Sherriff Phillip Fatch. NY Times Article is here, though I can only read the abstract (https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm...l-richard.html).

It appears that he was accused of assault, and two policemen came to arrest him. This unsourced marker, clearly and heavily biased to the most charitable view of Robertson possible, (https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=202593) claims "When two white deputies arrived to arrest Mr. Robertson, he objected and ultimately fled after an exchange of gunfire left all three wounded." It seems that there is little doubt he murdered a cop and shot another, who appears to have been making a lawful arrest. I can find nothing on if Robertson was guilty or not of the original assault, which is probably lost to time and only the claimed victims really knew, possibly the police if they had provided evidence. Robertson was shot by his victims three times as well. After Fatch succumbed to his wounds, a mob removed him from his cell and "fired several shots" and hung him. I interpret this to mean the poor man was given a coup de grace before being strung up, that's usually what this kind of phrasing meant at that time.

There are efforts for this memorial to Robertson and its final placement, which is apparently a hot topic in Mobile (https://www.al.com/news/2022/07/cont...-happened.html). Advocates of the memorial, which they wanted to place where a statue of the cancelled Raphael Semmes used to stand, claimed they were unaware of the allegation Robertson committed murder, which seems absolutely impossible to credibly believe as the memorial does include that fact, though phrased in the most charitable way.

What a sad and thoroughly unnecessary human tragedy all around, with 2 deaths and another probably seriously wounded person. A lynching is, should be needless too say, a horrible thing, as is the denial of due process rights, especially when the guilty party is already in custody and no longer a meaningful threat to the public. So is committing murder in the first place, Fatch seems to have done nothing wrong here as far as I have read, he served a legitimate warrant for arrest on assault charges, for those charges to be heard in court. As to the modern controversy, I do not think at this point I will ever understand the cancellation of historical figures to be replaced with similar statues, memorials and commemorations of people who are not historical figures and evidently committed objectively horrible crimes, but are more amenable to the narratives of those doing said cancelling. There seem to be many victims in this saga, and no heroes.

Incredibly sad story and thanks for doing the footwork. Regardless of the crimes involved, carrying a piece of lynching rope would only bring bad mojo in my book. I don't really care for Anson and his racist past so I don't collect his cards, but I also collect cards I like that are morally bankrupt in other ways, so I don't really have a leg to stand on.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Incredibly sad story and thanks for doing the footwork. Regardless of the crimes involved, carrying a piece of lynching rope would only bring bad mojo in my book. I don't really care for Anson and his racist past so I don't collect his cards, but I also collect cards I like that are morally bankrupt in other ways, so I don't really have a leg to stand on.

Carrying a piece of lynch rope for luck is, of course, not as bad as actually doing said lynching, but it is such an odd thing to encounter. Rough street justice or perceived justice, racial and not racial, has been a norm for the vast majority of human history, but this little anecdote surprises. An all-around tragedy, the mechanism of it's sad and bloody conclusion turned into a good luck charm. History is often more strange than any fiction.

I do not mean this in a personal or negative way to anyone, but I find it endlessly interesting that today we see and treat racism (Anson's crime of thought, after the fact) as in many ways worse than even murder itself, that most absolute and final of all things (Simpson's crime of action, and a crime when committed). Anson is more objected to than Simpson, a statue of Semmes is pulled down for a memorial to a fellow who apparently committed a homicide without any dispute that he did. It dots our culture in many ways and places, and it surely says something about who we are as a people today, but I am not quite smart enough to put my finger on exactly what that is.

[packs]

The information included in that Lajoie announcement made sure everyone knew who was hung. It went out of its way to tell you who was on the rope. The anecdote could have been about lynching anyone, and this good luck superstition, but it was about lynching a specific type of person.

I don't know that anything can be gleaned about Lajoie from the story though. He might have had this thing thrust on him and been polite about it but personally disturbed. I'm not sure from what's there.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by G1911

Carrying a piece of lynch rope for luck is, of course, not as bad as actually doing said lynching, but it is such an odd thing to encounter. Rough street justice or perceived justice, racial and not racial, has been a norm for the vast majority of human history, but this little anecdote surprises. An all-around tragedy, the mechanism of it's sad and bloody conclusion turned into a good luck charm. History is often more strange than any fiction.

I do not mean this in a personal or negative way to anyone, but I find it endlessly interesting that today we see and treat racism (Anson's crime of thought, after the fact) as in many ways worse than even murder itself, that most absolute and final of all things (Simpson's crime of action, and a crime when committed). Anson is more objected to than Simpson, a statue of Semmes is pulled down for a memorial to a fellow who apparently committed a homicide without any dispute that he did. It dots our culture in many ways and places, and it surely says something about who we are as a people today, but I am not quite smart enough to put my finger on exactly what that is.

Anson's crimes were not of thought only, but of action. It's referenced at length in regards to Moses Fleetwood Walker and the Chicago Mascot Clarence Duvall in the book "The Summer of Beer and Whiskey" by Edward Achorn.

[Republicaninmass]

Can't imagine collecting Aaron Hernendez cards

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Anson's crimes were not of thought only, but of action. It's referenced at length in regards to Moses Fleetwood Walker and the Chicago Mascot Clarence Duvall in the book "The Summer of Beer and Whiskey" by Edward Achorn.

I don't have a copy of this book, though it's on my long "get it and read it" list. What crime did Anson commit? I am only familiar with his organizing professional white baseball to exclude black players, but I am no expert on Anson.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don't have a copy of this book, though it's on my long "get it and read it" list. What crime did Anson commit? I am only familiar with his organizing professional white baseball to exclude black players, but I am no expert on Anson.

I was just referencing your "crimes of thought" comment and just said they were crimes of action, not an actual crime, just him being a horrible racist.

The book elaborates on his hatred of minorities and what led him to that ideology and the situation with Walker and how that shaped baseball.

That book is also an audiobook with a great narrator, I highly recommend it. Also 59 in 84 by same author and narrator about Old Hoss Radbourn is also excellent.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

I was just referencing your "crimes of thought" comment and just said they were crimes of action, not an actual crime, just him being a horrible racist.

The book elaborates on his hatred of minorities and what led him to that ideology and the situation with Walker and how that shaped baseball.

That book is also an audiobook with a great narrator, I highly recommend it. Also 59 in 84 by same author and narrator about Old Hoss Radbourn is also excellent.

Ah. I mean that Anson's 'crime' is one of the intellect. He never lynched anybody, enslaved a person, or assaulted someone for the color of their skin as far as I am aware. What he did was not a crime at all, was accepted by his society at that time (Anson was not a commissioner or somebody who could simply dictate to a reluctant following), and was Anson refusing to do a thing himself.

59 in 84, I loved, fascinating look at one of the most interesting single player seasons of baseball history.

[timn1]

wrong spot!