The end results of hoarding

[G1911]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

The difference is that when it comes to paying way up for an item, a deliberately created market shortage is not going to be considered the same by many (as one that happens from genuine supply/demand effects in a marketplace.)

Let's say a gas station buys out all the other gas stations in a remote area (and forces people with no other option to pay $10 a gallon when they'd normally pay $3.) Do you really think that station will be viewed the same by customers as if a $10/gallon price there was the result of a nationwide shortage that was out of their control?

Even if none of these situations panned out financially for the hoarder, that doesn't change the fact that it can cause people to pay way up for something that they wouldn't have had to otherwise.

And of course no one is entitled to buy a card for "x price they want". But wanting to avoid a price gouging situation that only exists because of malicious intent from one entity (and pay a reasonable market price for something)? That has nothing to do with any sort of unreasonable and selfish "name your price" entitlement

It's no more deliberate of a shortage than any other card being collected; everybody wants Willie Mays driving up his price. That is the result of deliberate buying by people. It's okay if a group drives up the price of X card, but not if it's one collector?

Nobody is hoarding odd cards and selling them back at triple the price. I am not aware of any example of this happening in hobby history where a hoarder hoarded a card and kept his hoard for sale one at a time at a higher price. Happy to stand corrected if an example can be found.

These hoarders don't seem to be doing it to price gouge - they do it because they want the card and value it more than others do. We've not yet been able to name a single card where it appears to be financially motivated. I fail to see how this is malicious intent; it's the same thing we all do for cards we want. We buy the cards we want. If there's more demand for X card than there is supply (or perception of supply, actual supply seems to have surprisingly little to do with it much of the time), it's price goes up on the market. I collect a card because I like it and it strikes my fancy, I don't see the maliciousness in this.

If I want a bunch of the same card, why should I not collect it? Why should I ensure it is available to you at the price you think it should be worth?

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by G1911

It's no more deliberate of a shortage than any other card being collected; everybody wants Willie Mays driving up his price. That is the result of deliberate buying by people. It's okay if a group drives up the price of X card, but not if it's one collector?

Nobody is hoarding odd cards and selling them back at triple the price. I am not aware of any example of this happening in hobby history where a hoarder hoarded a card and kept his hoard for sale one at a time at a higher price. Happy to stand corrected if an example can be found.

These hoarders don't seem to be doing it to price gouge - they do it because they want the card and value it more than others do. We've not yet been able to name a single card where it appears to be financially motivated. I fail to see how this is malicious intent; it's the same thing we all do for cards we want. We buy the cards we want. If there's more demand for X card than there is supply (or perception of supply, actual supply seems to have surprisingly little to do with it much of the time), it's price goes up on the market. I collect a card because I like it and it strikes my fancy, I don't see the maliciousness in this.

If I want a bunch of the same card, why should I not collect it? Why should I ensure it is available to you at the price you think it should be worth?

You keep conflating "collecting lots of a card cause I like it" with hoarding one w/ only the specific intent to drive price way up. Yes, I feel the latter is a different situation. And those are the spots I'm referring to.

No, the examples like Bartirome and the '57 Paul Smith from my link are not being done by people who just do it for the love of the game. Look at Cole Bartiromo's past. And as mentioned before, the Smith guy has been very vocal in FB groups about hoping to corner the market and drive the price up for a pump and dump.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

You keep conflating "collecting lots of a card cause I like it" with hoarding one w/ only the specific intent to drive price way up. Yes, I feel the latter is a different situation. And those are the spots I'm referring to.

No, the examples like Bartirome and the '57 Paul Smith from my link are not being done by people who just do it for the love of the game. Look at Cole Bartiromo's past. And as mentioned before, the Smith guy has been very vocal in FB groups about hoping to corner the market and drive the price up for a pump and dump.

Cole was an absolute nutter, but he doesn't seem to have seriously attempted to make money off his bizarre 1952 saga, unless there is a piece I am not aware of. He did like that card, he doesn't seem (again, I am happy to be corrected) to have sold off his collection even though he doesn't appear to be buying it anymore. He never reasonably stood a chance of making a profit even if it was all a very clever price fixing attempt with the prices he was paying.

Paul Smith is easily and readily available for normal pricing for a card from the SP series: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...&LH_Complete=1. I don't know anything about this one but if this is what he is trying to do, he is completely failing and seems to not buy a great many of the cheap copies of this card.

Most hoarders are hoarding because they like that card and have a fun time seeing how many they can accumulate. I am still waiting an example of a hoard that led to a profit or could reasonably have been expected to lead to a profit for these hoarders. It costs the hoarder money to publicly hoard a card; it seems there are 0 cards identified where this alleged dick-move-price-fixing-for-profit has ever worked.

EDIT: You said "Hoarding anything in a marketplace at the expense of everyone else is a dick move." - that isn't exactly in line with your new position that doing it with intent to profit is terrible. It quite specifically specifies that any hoarding of anything for any reason is being a dick.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by G1911

EDIT: You said "Hoarding anything in a marketplace at the expense of everyone else is a dick move." - that isn't exactly in line with your new position that doing it with intent to profit is terrible. It quite specifically specifies that any hoarding of anything for any reason is being a dick.

I realized that as well. But I did not take a "new position"; I just didn't clarify my original one enough at first. In that initial post, my mind was only on hoarding with intent to drive prices up (as my instinct was that those who just collect tons of the same card weren't apt to have a Bartiromo effect on the marketplace). I could be wrong about that though.

You could be right about Bartiromo, but you're wrong about the Smith guy. He owns hundreds of that card and his intent was clear. Again, just because he failed (or others failed) to cash in has nothing to do with my point about such an attempt's effect on the marketplace regardless. And the only reason Smith is easily available for a somewhat reasonable price now is because that hoarding attempt just ended. It wasn't like that prior in the last year or two; the dude would proudly state now and then that the cheapest one on ebay was $35 or $40 because of his actions.

Have a good night.

[Pat R]

The person that was hoarding the Titus is a member but he doesn't post anymore.

The Pelty horizontal was semi-hoarded a few years ago and the prices increased a little but they eventually came back down.

[frohme]

Late to a thread as usual...

Add the T207 Hageman to the list of "relative(ly)" hoarded cards that are still affected price-wise. Not sure if that collecting is still active, but the $$ effect definitely lingers.

--
Mike

[savedfrommyspokes]

There is a board member who actively collects one of the cards mentioned in the first post of this thread. A few years ago, I flat out asked him why he collected so many copies of this card. There is a reason, and I can assure you (based on his response) that it has nothing to do with hoarding a single card to create a market shortage. I appreciate his reason as it is a personal one for him and in no way does it appear his intent is to create a market shortage.