Buyer Beware: CMIZ5290 board member

[todeen]

Buyer Beware when dealing with Net54 member CMIZ5290 (Kevin Mize).

Nuts and bolts:
CMIZ5290 sold me a 33 Goudey Gehrig in June, and advertised it with a guarantee as "Fair condition....I guarantee the card to be authentic, and will grade," (See his OP in a screenshot). I sent it to SGC on June 16, shortly after I received it from Kevin, on a 10 day sub. After 130+ days with SGC, they determined the card as ALTERED (see SGC screenshot). I asked CMIZ5290 for a refund due to his guarantee, and he has declined.


More Details:
CMIZ5290 responded to my request by stating, "I guaranteed the card to grade as an orignal card (not a reprint, etc...), and it did... I did not guarantee a numerical grade." In my interpretation of his OP, that is not how he advertised the card. Personally, I wouldn't have had a problem if the Gehrig only graded as authentic, and I wouldn't be asking for a refund. However, I'm pretty sure some of the board members feel that the designation of ALTERED is less than the designation of Authentic. Some collectors just hate that designation. I am one of them. So even if he only guaranteed the card as authentic, the card did not receive that grade from SGC. I don't want to own an altered card, I wanted to own a beat up old Authentic card. That's why I'm requesting a refund.

This was my first TPG submission, so I'm not extremely experienced with grading. Maybe with more experience I could have foreseen this and not bought the card, but the description and guarantee of the card, in addition to Kevin's 6000+ posts led me to believe I could have faith in an honorable purchase and transaction from a veteran board member.

***I know some of you will be asking to see a picture of the returned card from SGC to determine if I made any alterations. I expect the card to be delivered from USPS today. I missed the delivery and signature confirmation yesterday 11/06, and if they don't deliver card today I can pick it up at the Post Office on Monday 11/09. I will post a picture when I have it in hand, and you can see for yourself it is the same card I received from CMIZ5290 without any additional changes. But he is still actively selling on the board and I thought this was a timely Public Service Announcement***

[perezfan]

As a seller, I was stiffed twice by this same guy...

The first time, he simply never paid for an item that he reserved. Didn't even have the courtesy to write me to say he changed his mind. I had to reach out 4 times, before being graced with his rude reply that he no longer wanted the item. His inappropriate tone indicated that I was somehow out of line for pursuing the issue (after two weeks of being ignored).

The second time, he simply lied about sending the money. He said the check was in the mail. Of course it never arrived. Had he really sent it, he would have inquired or followed up to see if I received the payment. Instead, I never heard from him again.

My fault on the second occurrence.... I should never have given him a second chance.

I hope you get your refund without having to endure a huge ordeal. I really wish this member could be barred from this site, or at a minimum from the BST.

I've had well over 100 easy/successful transactions here, and only 2 that went bad... BOTH from the same person.

[iwantitiwinit]

I have bought several higher dollar cards from cmiz5290 and have never had an issue. Cards were as advertised and sent within a reasonable amount of time. In my experience communication is not always instantaneous but is adequate.

[Eric72]

"I guarantee the card to be authentic..."
- CMIZ5290

Easy enough to understand.



"...and grade."
- CMIZ5290

What does this mean, if not to mean grade numerically?



I am genuinely curious.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Eric72

"I guarantee the card to be authentic..."
- CMIZ5290

Easy enough to understand.



"...and grade."
- CMIZ5290

What does this mean, if not to mean grade numerically?



I am genuinely curious.

I am with you. I think what he did is a bunch of BS and am contemplating what to do .....

.

[conor912]

It begs the question, is “authentic” a grade?

Talk amongst yaselves.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by conor912

It begs the question, is “authentic” a grade?

In my opinion, it is not!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by conor912

It begs the question, is “authentic” a grade?

Talk amongst yaselves.

No, saying something will grade is not meaning AUT in our sphere. Period. That is my thought But i am listening. And the OP asked me about this situation and if he should post it. My answer is obvious....
I don't think we want weasley semantics on our forum. But I am listening...


.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I have bought several higher dollar cards from cmiz5290 and have never had an issue. Cards were as advertised and sent within a reasonable amount of time. In my experience communication is not always instantaneous but is adequate.

I do not like these kinds of positive feedback. . Many sellers have good transactions..........until they don’t.

[Leon]

Just an fyi... Kevin and I are talking through emails at this point. ..Yawl will know how it comes out sooner than later.

[Jcosta19]

Originally Posted by perezfan

As a seller, I was stiffed twice by this same guy...

The first time, he simply never paid for an item that he reserved. Didn't even have the courtesy to write me to say he changed his mind. I had to reach out 4 times, before being graced with his rude reply that he no longer wanted the item. His inappropriate tone indicated that I was somehow out of line for pursuing the issue (after two weeks of being ignored).

The second time, he simply lied about sending the money. He said the check was in the mail. Of course it never arrived. Had he really sent it, he would have inquired or followed up to see if I received the payment. Instead, I never heard from him again.

My fault on the second occurrence.... I should never have given him a second chance.

I hope you get your refund without having to endure a huge ordeal. I really wish this member could be barred from this site, or at a minimum from the BST.

I've had well over 100 easy/successful transactions here, and only 2 that went bad... BOTH from the same person.

This alone is very concerning behavior and should make anyone pause.

If I could just send a quick "ill take it" before anyone else on new posts and THEN research the card and recent prices and only actually take it if the deal looked good....well I'd have a lot more cards right now.

Not saying that's what happened in these cases since I have no first hand knowledge but it is not a good look.

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[Seven]

I can't speak to the situation, Tim I'm sorry you're going through this trouble though. I can speak personally though in terms of purchasing from Tim, Tim is a great all around guy, very fair and communicative. He was one of the first people I purchased from on the board, and was more than happy to answer any and all of my questions.

I don't think it's particularly fair to you, Tim with everything going on, but I will say that at a minimum if you can't get a refund, I'm sure someone would be more than happy to purchase the card from you at the same price you paid for it, if not more.

[Jgrace]

My $0.02:

Both buyers and sellers need to use clear language in these situations. “Grade” is not enough. “Grade numerically” or “grade authentic” should be used to set expectations. If a seller doesn’t provide that, the prospective buyer should demand that clarity.

That said, in this case I would have interpreted the language as a guarantee of a numeric grade, and expected a return if it turned out that the item was altered. I think that goes with the expectations of selling on this forum, and the trust that is required to make this whole thing work. However, I don’t believe the guarantee should extend to cover any grading costs (in this case, with the weak language).

[todeen]

Kevin sent me an email, we're at least talking again.

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[sando69]

congratulations on an incredible display of salesmanship.

furthermore, thank you for the opportunity (for all of us) to formulate an accurate opinion in regards to your integrity.

seems this has been a particularly bad day for douchebags.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by sando69

seems this has been a particularly bad day for douchebags.

I see what you did there .

[glynparson]

Originally Posted by sando69

congratulations on an incredible display of salesmanship.

furthermore, thank you for the opportunity (for all of us) to formulate an accurate opinion in regards to your integrity.

seems this has been a particularly bad day for douchebags.

Great post

For the record I have bought from Kevin and even was able to get a bump
On a few higher dollar cards. Of course after that happened he pretty much wouldn’t sell me anything else. He is an odd duck. I wish i could say this shocked me but it really didn’t. I don’t think he’d totally stiff someone but I am not surprised by his position here at all.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Is it interesting that Kevin hasn't commented once in this thread in his own defense?

[Rhotchkiss]

+1. The silence is telling

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Is it interesting that Kevin hasn't commented once in this thread in his own defense?

I'll be glad to comment....For the final record, I offered a resolution to Leon and the buyer. And pertaining this card, Leon sent me an email himself today offering to buy the card, so boy this deal had to be a real rip-off didn't it!! But he managed to leave that out of the thread.. As far as this guy Tony Andrea, I don't even know who the Hell this guy is, period. And Leon, interesting that you are making these posts on this thread without one email to me other than the one offering to buy the card. I do have the email for anyone that would like to see.... Other than that, thanks for everything! Net54, I don't need you as you don't need me either. I do wish the best to the many buyers that I dealt with for over 11 years, thank you for that and happy holidays to you and your families...

[steve B]

I'm wondering if SGC changed the way they identify lower grade stuff.

I always checked off "don't encapsulate if it won't get a number grade"
About half the cards that got rejected 2/4? 2/3? were not rejected as alered. One was undersize, another had cuts that were too rough. They wouldn't grade them, so while being just fine, would have come back in an "A" slab, just like the one trimmed on multiple sides would have.

So do they now make the distiinction betweenauthentic but too non-standard to get a number and altered?

[cammb]

Where is the SGC screenshot that the OP mentions?

[Kevin]

With the amount of bad press this guy is getting, I think I might change my user name...

[Gorditadogg]

Leon, thanks for taking care of this board. I know it's not easy trying to manage all of us but I appreciate what you have done to make Net54 what it is.

I joined for the BST, but started reading the other forums and I am amazed by the knowledge and helpfulness of the members here. I have learned so much and am very happy I found this place.

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[todeen]

Here are the shots. Not slabbed. I don't know what I needed to click to get it slabbed. Like I said, this was my first submission.

But my other submissions came back graded. I really like the black background.



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[bnorth]

Originally Posted by todeen

Here are the shots. Not slabbed. I don't know what I needed to click to get it cleaned. Like I said, this was my first submission.

But my other submissions came back graded. I really like the black background.



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There seemed to be some interest in it. Put it in the BST section at a break even price. Best of luck.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bnorth

There seemed to be some interest in it. Put it in the BST section at a break even price. Best of luck.

That card carries a premium now, it's famous after the last couple of days...

[Shoeless Moe]

I'm a card idiot mind you, so bare with me.

What about it is altered?

If it's the size, can you lay it over another Goudey you have and take a pix?

I'd like to see the difference.

[uyu906]

Good riddance . . . IMHO

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I'm a card idiot mind you, so bare with me.

What about it is altered?

If it's the size, can you lay it over another Goudey you have and take a pix?

I'd like to see the difference.

my guess is color added...size looks good.

[perezfan]

I am guessing it's the corners that account for the "grade".

Rather than natural corner wear, it looks like the corners (at one point in time) were artificially rounded by a scissors. Just a guess, without having it in-hand.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

I'm a card idiot mind you, so bare with me.



What about it is altered?



If it's the size, can you lay it over another Goudey you have and take a pix?



I'd like to see the difference.

Laid over the Tris Speaker and they appeared to be the same size. I did that before I shipped / submitted them and couldn't tell a difference with my fingers running over the edges.

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