When an item isn't as described from a large auction house?

[Bugsy]

Hey guys,

What would you do if you were in my situation? I paid over $500 hundred dollars for a 1910s display piece through a large auction house. The piece was in a crappy frame. When I went to take it to get it re-framed, it turns out the piece is completely taped down to a foam board. Scotch tape does not come off of paper and can actually cause staining after time. That staining will likely migrate through to the front side of the ad after a while. I suspect it would cost at least a few hundred to have addressed professionally. When I contacted the auction house, they said they would have their restorer do it for me at a discounted rate (completely at my expense) or they would waive their consignment fee if I wanted them to sell it for me. What recourse do I have? Large houses only take payments in the form of check or money order, so it isn't like I can contest the payment. What would you do?

Thanks.

Chris

[packs]

Would they offer you a future credit for the cost of the restoration? That seems fair to me. They should have disclosed that in the auction description. If their stance is they didn't know about it, then that's pretty negligent and the credit seems appropriate in any situation.

[Bugsy]

So nobody else has had this happen to them? A large auction house, one I'm sure most of you bid with, sends you something absolutely not as described. They won't issue a refund and basically tell you to stick it. What recourse do you have? A small claims case across state lines doesn't seem feasible...and I'm sure this slimeball is very aware of that.

Everyone bashes eBay, but ironically, eBay is far safer for buyers. At least when you encounter a slimeball on eBay, you are still backed up by your credit card company.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

So nobody else has had this happen to them? A large auction house, one I'm sure most of you bid with, sends you something absolutely not as described. They won't issue a refund and basically tell you to stick it. What recourse do you have? A small claims case across state lines doesn't seem feasible...and I'm sure this slimeball is very aware of that.

Everyone bashes eBay, but ironically, eBay is far safer for buyers. At least when you encounter a slimeball on eBay, you are still backed up by your credit card company.

Out the guy. Name him.

[pherbener]

I bought an item from Heritage last year for about $400 and realized when I received it that it was not as described. I contacted them and they sent me a return slip and refunded the money as soon as they got it back. I was concerned but the process couldn't have been better.

[Tabe]

Didn't someone on here a year or two ago post the story of a large photo that arrived with a crease or piece missing or something? Whatever happened with that?

[toledo_mudhen]

Shout out to AL at LOTG. Just had a bad situation that Al graciously made me completely whole on from the last auction. IMHO - doesnt get any better than this and it wont be soon forgotten.

[bbcard1]

I bought a set from Lee that was missing a card. It was one of the hall of famers and had been described in the set description, so I know it had somehow been separated from the set, which was in an album. I told him and he looked around and didn't see it but went out and bought a replacement and shipped it to me promptly, no questions asked.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

A large auction house, one I'm sure most of you bid with, sends you something absolutely not as described.

Originally Posted by Bugsy

The piece was in a crappy frame. When I went to take it to get it re-framed, it turns out the piece is completely taped down to a foam board.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but from an outsiders point of view I'm having difficulty finding fault of the auction house. Not that its a big enough deal, for you to want to post the description here, but just for curiosities sake...what was it in their description that was deceptive, misleading, and/or "not as described"?

The way you presented it, it reads to me like you weren't aware of it being "taped down" to a foam board, until you took it to be taken apart to be reframed. I guess, I'm not sure how an auction house was supposed to know that it was "taped down" to a foam board, without disassembling it as well.

Once again....not disputing your claim...nor do I have an opinion....but was hoping to understand all aspects of the overall concern.



I collect classic cars, and buy/sell on a regular basis. From reading your post, a similar situation that I am relating it to, would be going to a collector car auction, and buying a car that looks, runs, and drives amazing, and sells for big money. I take it home, and enjoy my purchase. But after a few weeks, decide that I want to paint it a different color. Upon tearing down the car, I discover that there is a significant amount of rust. Of course, I would be pissed.....but, I can't lay blame to the auction house that I purchased the car through. They are professionals, and know what they're doing...but at the end of the day..they aren't going to break down/sand down a car to see if it has rust issues, just like I would assume, that a memorabilia auction house isn't going to break down a piece, and take it out of a frame to inspect it. They are selling the item, just like they received it...stems, seeds and everything.

[Rich Klein]

IIRC -- Ryan C had a similar situation with a big auction house.

Ryan, would you like to link to that thread

Rich

[sbfinley]

My response would be completely predicated on how the item was described and visualized in the auction. (Which isn't provided.) It's extremely common for high dollar items to be auctioned in cheap old frames because there is no telling how a century old item has been stored over the years. The last thing a house wants to do is destroy or damaged something consigned before the auction. For this reason I always bid knowing that underneath the frame is a mystery that could be a disaster. Now if the item was described as "pristine", "flawless", or another adjective hinting that it would have zero issues underneath that would be another thing. I would also have an issue, as in a previous thread, where an item was cropped and edited to remove creases and damages. If one of these two things occurred, then yes I believe the auction house should provide some type of recourse. If not, and the damage was hidden behind the frame I'd say the house's provided amendments constitute a fair response. The issue is that A) our treasures are usually just another family's ephemera and are treated as such (the gigantic Nat Fein print in REA has an opening bid of $10k I think - it's spent the past 50 years tacked to a family's wall) and B) that auction houses assess an added liability if they re-framed and inspected every high ticket that came in a crappy 80 year old frame. I've never been burned buying a framed item, but I've also approached each one I've bid on as "buyer beware" as I'm well aware of what could be lurking underneath.

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

IIRC -- Ryan C had a similar situation with a big auction house.

Ryan, would you like to link to that thread

Rich

I wouldn't compare Ryan's experience to this one with the limited information given. Ryan's was a clear case of edited scans/photos while this one seems to be damage hidden underneath.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

So nobody else has had this happen to them? A large auction house, one I'm sure most of you bid with, sends you something absolutely not as described. They won't issue a refund and basically tell you to stick it. What recourse do you have? A small claims case across state lines doesn't seem feasible...and I'm sure this slimeball is very aware of that.

Everyone bashes eBay, but ironically, eBay is far safer for buyers. At least when you encounter a slimeball on eBay, you are still backed up by your credit card company.

I had an issue with a MAH about a year ago....I started a thread here w/o naming the AH, mainly just to gauge if my concern was resonable. The owner of the AH posts on this forum so he most likely saw the thread and with the undisputable facts I had concerning the issue in support of my concern, the owner finally made the decision to take care of the issue. I feel he realized that if I posted my facts and revealed his identity, it would have not been good.

Maybe the AH in your case is not aware of this thread?

[Duluth Eskimo]

[QUOTE=Bugsy;1524148]Hey guys,

What would you do if you were in my situation? I paid over $500 hundred dollars for a 1910s display piece through a large auction house. The piece was in a crappy frame. When I went to take it to get it re-framed, it turns out the piece is completely taped down to a foam board. Scotch tape does not come off of paper and can actually cause staining after time. That staining will likely migrate through to the front side of the ad after a while. I suspect it would cost at least a few hundred to have addressed professionally. When I contacted the auction house, they said they would have their restorer do it for me at a discounted rate (completely at my expense) or they would waive their consignment fee if I wanted them to sell it for me. What recourse do I have? Large houses only take payments in the form of check or money order, so it isn't like I can contest the payment. What would you do?

Unfortunately, I don't think you have much recourse. I would suggest making them aware of the thread via email and tell them if they do not make it right, then you blast them publicly. A public blasting will do them more harm than it will to make it right for you.

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

My response would be completely predicated on how the item was described and visualized in the auction. (Which isn't provided.)

Agreed. It's difficult to determine if the AH is at fault when we don't even know how the item was described/presented in the auction.

All we have at this point is the OP's side of the story.

[Bugsy]

I appreciate the responses. First off, while I understand why a listing could be inaccurate in this situation and because of time constraints, an auction house isn't able to open a framed piece to check for damage, that really isn't the issue. I contacted the house immediately upon receipt of the item. I am sure they had not issued payment to the consignor yet. Why am I stuck with the issue and not the person who consigned it? Why couldn't the sale be cancelled? The house still had the money. This isn't only short-sighted, but it oozes of dishonesty to push the problem onto the buyer instead of the person who consigned the piece in the first place. Of course, I was offered a deal if I wanted to re-consign the piece. Nice, huh? Kick the can down the road one more time. Stick someone else with the problem instead? Nice suggestion.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Large houses only take payments in the form of check or money order, so it isn't like I can contest the payment.

Yeah, there is a reason for this. See the "Payment at card shows" thread. No charge backs.

I'm not saying the seller is right or wrong here, I'm just commenting as to the reason a lot of them don't take credit cards.

Good luck with your situation and I hope you get a resolution.

[drcy]

I never assume about the condition of an item sold in a frame, for numerous reasons including because items are often matted specifically to hide the damage (often for on-the-wall display reasons, not to trick people) and because you're bidding without seeing the whole item. I'm always wary about things in frames and bid accordingly. Also, I don't collect frames.

As said, it all depends how the item was described. Some sellers say they haven't removed the item from the old frame and make no assurances-- which is fine.