Quote:
Originally Posted by todeen
You speculated about the Reds set w-711. I asked the Reds HOF, and they had no information, only speculation as well. Here is their reply.
"Thanks for contacting the Hall of Fame. I must confess that I had forgotten about or missed completely the article in the 1982 Reds Yearbook that associated the W-711 series with a local dairy. After reading it (or re-reading it), I set about trying to find some period resource that might confirm or explain the reference in the article. The Reds’ archive do not contain internal company documents that go back that far and, Unfortunately, after searching through the Cincinnati Enquirer from 1938 and 1939, and reviewing all of the editions of “News of the Reds” published during those years, I could find no reference to the card set at all. There were many ads for French Bauer products in the newspapers but nothing related to the Reds. As far as the “News of the Reds” is concerned, I found multiple references to cut out schedule calendars that were available at no charge to fans at the ballpark as well as ads for Reds window decals that were offered at no charge at the park but nothing about the card set (sponsored or otherwise).
While I certainly acknowledge the possibility that I may have missed something, if we assume for a moment that I did not, I find it difficult to believe that a sponsored promotion related to the cards would not have been advertised in some way. The Enquirer was not the only paper in Cincinnati at the time but it was the preeminent morning paper and its Reds coverage was extensive. And if the cards were distributed as giveaways at the ballpark, I find it strange that there would have been no reference to the program in the Reds’ internally-produced newsletter. I have always understood the card set to be something that was sold at the souvenir stands at the ballpark and was never particularly bothered by the fact that no box or envelope associated with the set has surfaced. My thinking here has long been that anything they might have been housed in was likely devoid of any kind of marks or design and was therefore likely to have been discarded. There is much speculation here, of course, but I cannot find anything to support the assertion made in the yearbook article and it seems likely to me that I would have as I think such an association would have been promoted, especially since there is no sponsor or company name on the cards themselves. If I happen to find anything that sheds more light on this set and its production/distribution, I will certainly pass it along."
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Tim,
Thanks for checking this out with another reliable source, and a very interesting response you got back. I'm not surprised by the comments you got regarding the possibility that the French Bauer Dairy was not involved with the W-711 set. The fact that there were no references, markings, colloborative ads or articles that exist showing these cards were used by French Bauer for advertising purposes pretty much clinches it, at least for me, that the Dairy had nothing to do with this card issue. No company would put forth the time, effort, and money to create something like this with absolutely no mention of their name or product, or the existence of any supporting promotional ads or materials, being found anywhere.
What is very interesting though is that your source, the Reds HOF, goes on to also note that there is no evidence to definitively tie the 1938 W-711 cards to being issued by the team either. That is very surprising. The sources the Reds HOF referenced that did not confirm the 1938 and 1939 cards were associated with the Reds team are pretty compelling. I wonder if this lack of such evidence may help explain why the Reds' 1982 yearbook would have suggested these cards were associated with the French Bauer Dairy then. Is it possible whoever had written that yearbook article just assumed those cards were created and issued by an advertising company then, as they couldn't actually link them to the Reds team, and for whatever reason picked the French Bauer Dairy as that advertiser? That could have been an assumption based on other advertising promotions between the team and the Dairy that were known. Based on this information it makes you wonder if the W-711 issue was neither a Reds team or French Bauer Dairy issue at all.
Is it possible the cards were created by some unrelated company that profited by having them sold by vendors outside the Reds' ballpark? I can't imagine the team would have allowed such sales inside the ballpark, unless it was a team authorized issue or they were somehow getting a cut, in which case you would think there would have been some mention or other evidence of it in the team's records or files that the Reds HOF looked through. And the fact that these W-711 cards were apparently isued over two years (1938 and 1939) as two different types would also make you think the team was okay with them, even if created and sold by an unrelated company. Today if someone used a team's or player's image on something like this without the proper approval (and paying for it), they'd be immmediately shut down and sued in a heartbeat. I know things were much different back in the 1930's, but even so, would a team back then let someone do this for two years, with no action on their part or record of it at all?
At this point I feel fairly confident the French Bauer Dairy had nothing to do with creating the W-711 cards. Also confident the 1940 cards were an authorized and team created issue sold as sets. As to who actually was responsible for creating and distributing the 1938 and 1939 W-711 cards, that may still be up in the air after all. Even if the team wasn't directly responsible for creating and distributing them, I have to believe the Reds were somehow still involved or gave their permission in some way for someone else to create and distribute them. This could be one of those things that is never completely solved. If nothing else, a great topic for conversation and conjecture.
06-19-2021, 11:13 AM
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