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  #1  
Old 04-11-2016, 07:21 AM
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Default Payment at card shows?

This weekend I attended my first card show is at least 12 years. I've always bought cards online (AH's, ebay, BST here, etc) so I was excited to get a chance to go to a real show.

Day 1, I just scoped everything out and looked at every vintage table; I'm not into autos, memorabilia, or new stuff. Didn't buy anything but spotted a card I wanted. I went back yesterday with the intent to buy it.

The dealer and I agreed on a price and I'm pumped. Then he tells me he doesn't accept plastic. Huh? He said he would take a personal check though. Does anyone carry a checkbook anymore? I don't, haven't in years. I had to walk away. I wasn't going to drive the 25 miles back home to get my checkbook when the wife and I had several things to do during the day.

This was a $6000+ card and I guess I wrongly assumed large dealer accepted credit/debit cards.

Is this the norm at shows? In your experience, do show dealers usually accept credit/debit cards?

Thanks,

Justus
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  #2  
Old 04-11-2016, 07:42 AM
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Dealers have been slow to embrace technology IMO. I've found that many times they have the ability to take a credit card, but are unwilling to because of the fees.
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2016, 07:43 AM
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In going to shows I take cash, checks, credit cards and PayPal.

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 04-11-2016 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 07:53 AM
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Assuming that this dealer didn't know you, I'm shocked that he would accept a personal check for $6+K. I always take a checkbook to shows, as dealers who know me will accept my checks. I don't like to carry a large amount of cash. If a dealer doesn't know me and doesn't accept credit cards, I ask the dealer to send the card to me after my check clears, if I believe the dealer to be reputable.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:42 AM
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I take cash checks and pay pal. In fact, at my shows, since I usually have cash from the dealers I will accept checks (made out to my partner in the show no less) to cash for those dealers who don't accept anything but cash or for those collectors ho do not bring enough cash. The hotel does not have an ATM so I offer that to make everyone lives easier.

Granted, we're s show that is between 30-60 tables depending on circumstances but with 3 exceptions (one of which is Leon). the dealers are weekend warriors who work for a living

Rich
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:45 AM
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I've had dealers tell me that they would take a card, but I would have to pay an extra 5% because of the fee.
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2016, 08:50 AM
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Cash is king .
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2016, 09:06 AM
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Very strange especially since Square technology is ubiquitous, easy, and can be clipped onto your cell phone.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:08 AM
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Not all of us have smart phones (Sorry). I still have a flip phone.
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  #10  
Old 04-11-2016, 09:09 AM
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Why would a dealer accept plastic from someone they don't know? They open themselves up to charge backs.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:26 AM
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I was at that Chantilly show and it could have been me the collector is talking about---Yes cash is King--also I take paypal and checks if I know the person or he has good references. I don't take credit cards---and like another person said, you have to be carful on chargebacks---I also have a flip phone---sorry I love it---I do lose sales at shows because I don't take credit cards, but also usually it is a high demand card and will sell at another show.--Many dealers I know over the years only take cash for many reasons and when I go to major shows , I take cash to buy--it works better for the collector who is selling his cards.
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2016, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
This weekend I attended my first card show is at least 12 years. I've always bought cards online (AH's, ebay, BST here, etc) so I was excited to get a chance to go to a real show.

Day 1, I just scoped everything out and looked at every vintage table; I'm not into autos, memorabilia, or new stuff. Didn't buy anything but spotted a card I wanted. I went back yesterday with the intent to buy it.

The dealer and I agreed on a price and I'm pumped. Then he tells me he doesn't accept plastic. Huh? He said he would take a personal check though. Does anyone carry a checkbook anymore? I don't, haven't in years. I had to walk away. I wasn't going to drive the 25 miles back home to get my checkbook when the wife and I had several things to do during the day.

This was a $6000+ card and I guess I wrongly assumed large dealer accepted credit/debit cards.

Is this the norm at shows? In your experience, do show dealers usually accept credit/debit cards?

Thanks,

Justus
Seems rather dumb that a dealer would let $6,000 walk out the door. At the very least he should have tried to work with you. Even if it were to mail you a check. I know if I had a pending sale for $6,000 I would have. I doubt very much the dealer was driving a Rolls Royce.

That said the only thing I've ever seen and paid with was cash. Only two different shows though.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2016, 09:56 AM
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Worrying about chargebacks seems unfounded since nearly every vendor in every industry accepts debit card payments. Also Paypal at a show seems like just as much of a risk since you can't show proof of delivery.

In any case, if you're a serious dealer with serious cards it's worth it to your business to invest in a smartphone and Square. I would never carry around 6K with me on the off chance I might buy something and don't think I'm alone.

Last edited by packs; 04-11-2016 at 10:16 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-11-2016, 10:22 AM
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Why would a dealer accept plastic from someone they don't know? They open themselves up to charge backs.
Pretty absurd. Then why should a dealer take a check from someone they don't know? Checks are bounced with less recourse. You suggesting cash only at a show?
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:29 AM
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Pretty absurd. Then why should a dealer take a check from someone they don't know? Checks are bounced with less recourse. You suggesting cash only at a show?
Yes, checks bounce, but absolutely there is more recourse - including jail time for the one that wrote the check. If you have a bounced checked, that is a legal instrument, signed by the the one that guaranteed it. You can file on them in a small claim court and pursue it legally. With a charge back, all the credit card owner has to do is call his credit card company, report the card stolen and the merchant is SOL. That said, if I were a dealer at a show, I wouldn't take a check either. Too much hassle if it does bounce. As already mentioned, cash is king.

Don't take my word for it, read post #11 above from a dealer...
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and like another person said, you have to be carful on chargebacks
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:34 AM
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Yeah but nearly every vendor takes plastic. The chances are remote that you're dealing with some mastermind serial chargeback king. If you're afraid of that happening I think your inventory would need to reflect your price points. I highly doubt the average customer has a few thousand bucks on them just in case they happen to find something they like and the person only takes cash.
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  #17  
Old 04-11-2016, 10:37 AM
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This is one of my favorites for the lay person / collector. 6k is a large purchase and the dealer is expected to just pay the juice for the credit card because it's more convenient to you. It seems that he tried to work with you by offering to accept a check which is a large risk for him, but doesn't cost him 3 percent. This is just like most buyers on eBay who expect to lowball everything then want the seller / dealer to pay eBay and PayPal fees because it doesn't cost them a thing.

I understand that it may seem hard for some people to believe that people pay in cash, many big time collectors and dealers do. If you don't have the cash, that is your problem. If you go to the national or any big show, most big time buyers have big time cash on them. This is another reason why most auction houses don't take credit cards. If I am shopping and come across a big ticket item I want and don't have the cash on me, I blame myself not the dealer. Collectibles are a cash business. I don't expect a dealer to bend over backwards for me.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:40 AM
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I highly doubt the average customer has a few thousand bucks on them just in case they happen to find something they like and the person only takes cash.
Just in case they happen to find something they like? It's a card show. They're going there to buy cards. Do you think a collector just happens to be driving by a hotel, convention center, etc and sees a sign that says, "Card Show" and thinks to himself, "I think I'll go in there, but I have no cash on me"? Or do you think a collector plans for the show in advance and carries the cash they need? I choose the latter. Maybe I'm different than everybody else.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:49 AM
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Just in case they happen to find something they like? It's a card show. They're going there to buy cards. Do you think a collector just happens to be driving by a hotel, convention center, etc and sees a sign that says, "Card Show" and thinks to himself, "I think I'll go in there, but I have no cash on me"? Or do you think a collector plans for the show in advance and carries the cash they need? I choose the latter. Maybe I'm different than everybody else.
I've never gone to a card show with any significant amount of cash. Just a checkbook.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:49 AM
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I think you are. I never expect to find anything I want at a card show. I mostly go because it's a weekend, I'm looking for something out of the ordinary, and maybe, just maybe this time I find something I like at a reasonable price. I never walk into a White Plains show for example with a few K in my pocket ready to spend. If you're at the National or some huge collector showcase show I think the pocket money number goes up, but not for a local show you're just casually passing through.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:51 AM
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:53 AM
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I think you are.
Nope, I'm obviously not. Read the post above my last one.

@Peter. That's great if you know the dealers and they trust you. I just prefer cash. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel I can negotiate a better deal with cash.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:57 AM
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Cash, along with checks, credit cards and PayPal give you the most flexibility and leverage, especially at a big show like the National. But, carrying large amounts of cash has it's risks. To each their own. There would seem to be no one right answer for everyone.

Last edited by ALR-bishop; 04-11-2016 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:59 AM
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I mean, I could see your pocket money number going up at a large collector showcase show like a National, but your local show doesn't seem like the place to just assume you might need a few thousand dollars. And although that poster might think dealers shouldn't bend over backwards for a buyer, I disagree. The dealer is the one with something to sell. If I leave with my money it's not a bad day for me. But if you leave with your inventory it is one for you.

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Old 04-11-2016, 11:10 AM
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At the National, for some collectors $6,000 is really just pocket change.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Do you think a collector just happens to be driving by a hotel, convention center, etc and sees a sign that says, "Card Show" and thinks to himself, "I think I'll go in there, but I have no cash on me"?
Not recently, but I've done almost exactly that. Not necessarily with a card show, but I've stopped by shows for other hobbies that I just happened to drive by. Of course, back then I usually had a bit of cash with me anyway. (Nowhere near 6K though!)

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Old 04-11-2016, 11:26 AM
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Very strange especially since Square technology is ubiquitous, easy, and can be clipped onto your cell phone.
I've just started learning about Square since it's how the retail area the makerspace I'm in is taking payments.

I'd recommend dealers looking into it, the pricing is better than many small merchant accounts and better than Paypal, a flat 2.75% (And if your margins are too small for that you're doing it wrong)

They also have a bunch of options for hardware, like a small stand for a tablet, which can attach to a cash drawer if you want it. And it has some pretty decent inventory tracking software. Overall a fairly preofessional looking setup/ Once people catch on, I think the more traditional CC processors are in trouble if they don't change.

The first time I saw it was at a craft fair. My wife and I bought some cards and prints from an artist, and the original I wanted was a bit more than the cash I had. The square setup was pretty impressive. simple, fairly quick, and we got an email receipt. (They also have receipt printers but he didn't have one. )


Steve B

I don't have square personally yet, and don't own stock.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:33 AM
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I assumed you would need to take cash or be willing to pay the fees with a card with most dealers. But it makes sense that some would not be willing to accept them because of the risk of charge backs. I can't imagine accepting a check for a few grand from someone I have never met. At least not without verifying an account balance on a banking app or something. When I go to a show I either bring cash or assume that I will need to make a trip to the bank if I find a card I really want.

I have had a dealer let me send the money paypal ff for a 1,500 card at a recent show.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:41 AM
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I have had actually had people claim they carry NO cash into the shows, even for admission. And as the promoter, when they tell me they have no cash (and I only charge $1 admission, I actually request they go to the ATM and get cash to bring for the dealers as well)

I got some news for you all, it's always good to have some cash in your pocket for an emergency

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Old 04-11-2016, 11:52 AM
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If anyone has read my post as a complaint against the dealer, it was not meant that way. He can do his business in whatever fashion he desires. I simply am interested in what is the norm and I appreciate the replies.

In his defense, the dealer DID tell me he could do paypal "friends and family" when he got back home and would mail me the card, so he was trying to find a way for it to work. I've certainly paid that way for lots of cards but none of this value, so it was my choice to thank him and decline.

No, I don't expect a dealer to bend over backwards for a buyer but, as someone mentions...the dealers are the ones there to sell their stock. If it is credit card fees they are worried about, I would think a dealer would just roll that overhead cost into the price of the card. That's what most online dealers do.

As a side question...If plastic is used as a debit card, are there any fees to the dealer?

As far as chargebacks...I don't know what to think about that aspect. Maybe the in-person collectibles market runs on cash (I'm finding out now) but most of the rest of the world and online-world runs on credit cards. It's just a cost of doing business.

Again, thanks for all the comments!
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy
Do you think a collector just happens to be driving by a hotel, convention center, etc and sees a sign that says, "Card Show" and thinks to himself, "I think I'll go in there, but I have no cash on me"?


Some cash yes, but the discussion started with a $6,000 purchase and I can't believe that most people would casually carry that much cash to any and every show they attend.

Last edited by packs; 04-11-2016 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:58 AM
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My question for the OP is why you need to charge the 6k card. Couldn't you meet up with the person later by putting a $100 downpayment on it or something? If it is money from your checking account then meeting the dealer at a later date might be an option and I'm sure something they would do for a 6k purchase. I have personally delivered large ticket items for customers. If you are merely credit carding 6k then the risk of chargeback is legitimate and maybe why the dealer did not work with you. Sometimes cash talks and BS walks.

A lot of younger people wonder why people that have been in the business for a while do the way they do. Because they have been burnt in the past. Legal tender is cash and not a promise of cash in the future.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:04 PM
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Some cash yes, but the discussion started with a $6,000 purchase and I can't believe that most people would casually carry that much cash to any and every show they attend.
It's already been confirmed that some people do. Any and every show? Certainly not, but for larger shows yes.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:15 PM
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If anyone has read my post as a complaint against the dealer, it was not meant that way. He can do his business in whatever fashion he desires. I simply am interested in what is the norm and I appreciate the replies.

In his defense, the dealer DID tell me he could do paypal "friends and family" when he got back home and would mail me the card, so he was trying to find a way for it to work. I've certainly paid that way for lots of cards but none of this value, so it was my choice to thank him and decline.

No, I don't expect a dealer to bend over backwards for a buyer but, as someone mentions...the dealers are the ones there to sell their stock. If it is credit card fees they are worried about, I would think a dealer would just roll that overhead cost into the price of the card. That's what most online dealers do.

As a side question...If plastic is used as a debit card, are there any fees to the dealer?

As far as chargebacks...I don't know what to think about that aspect. Maybe the in-person collectibles market runs on cash (I'm finding out now) but most of the rest of the world and online-world runs on credit cards. It's just a cost of doing business.

Again, thanks for all the comments!
I don't find any fault with you at all. If you're story happened as you say it did (and I absolutely believe it did), then shame on the dealer for poor negotiation skills. I was in sales (large ticket items) most of my life until a career change 9 years ago. The first step in negotiating any large ticket item is to ask the buyer how they intend to pay. It does two things. (1) It's lets the seller know how much room they have to negotiate. For example if the buyer is paying with a credit card, the seller can factor that fee into the price. (2) It serves as a qualifying question - does the seller/company accept the form of payment the buyer intends to use? In your case if he would have asked that question and you told him that you intend to pay with a credit card, then he could have said he didn't accept credit cards and it would have ended any negotiation saving you both time. So, in your case, shame on the dealer for not asking that question. Again, this is only for larger ticket items.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:19 PM
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Seller's want cash so they can avoid any tax issues.

Yes, call me Mr. Obvious.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 04-11-2016 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:39 PM
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The big time dealers should at least get square: squareup.com
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
My question for the OP is why you need to charge the 6k card. Couldn't you meet up with the person later by putting a $100 downpayment on it or something? If it is money from your checking account then meeting the dealer at a later date might be an option and I'm sure something they would do for a 6k purchase. I have personally delivered large ticket items for customers.
I don't need to charge anything, I do it out of convience. Just like I would if I'm going to buy anything over $50-$100 in a store. It's a PITA to get that much cash from an ATM (my bank has no branches where I'm currently located) and even then, it would take me a couple days to do it due to the daily limits. If I was dead-set on having the card, I would have changed the plans with my family and gone back home for my checkbook. Obviously I didn't want it that badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
If you are merely credit carding 6k then the risk of chargeback is legitimate and maybe why the dealer did not work with you. Sometimes cash talks and BS walks.
If that's his business model, great. I never complained about it, I only asked the forum if that's the norm at shows.

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Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
A lot of younger people wonder why people that have been in the business for a while do the way they do. Because they have been burnt in the past. Legal tender is cash and not a promise of cash in the future.
I'm glad most of the world has evolved, I'd hate to have to carry around a pocket of gold nuggets and a scale.

Last edited by Justus; 04-11-2016 at 01:15 PM. Reason: Spelling.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:05 PM
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This has been an interesting topic for me as I travel quite a bit. This weekend I'll be in Cleveland and am going to try to swing by the Ohio Sports Collectors Convention. With daily ATM limits it can be tough to decide just how much cash to take, especially when out of town.

On similar note, last summer I went to a show in Phoenix and had about 5k on me. There were two dealers that had items I wanted to purchase, but they would not give me the time of day. It almost became a weird social experiment to see how long I could be ignored.
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  #39  
Old 04-11-2016, 01:10 PM
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Bring cash.

Chalk this up as lesson learned.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Klein View Post
Not all of us have smart phones (Sorry). I still have a flip phone.
You and me both, Rich--I only want it to make and receive calls, with an occasional text. Tasks of a computer nature, I leave to my computer!

Best wishes,

Larry
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  #41  
Old 04-11-2016, 01:25 PM
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I typically bring the amount of cash my budget allows. It's a great buffer.

However, if I do cross something high end, and I wish to pay by CC, many times the buyer and seller can negotiate the 3.5% fee. If I see something that is a decent deal, I'm OK with the dealer adding on 1.5%, 2.5%, 3%, or whatever we come up with to close the deal.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Seller's want cash so they can avoid any tax issues.

Yes, call me Mr. Obvious.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:47 PM
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If I'm at a show, any you have some nice PSA 9's from the 70's, and they are priced reasonably, and you take plastic, we will do a lot of business.

If you only take cash, then your s*** out of luck, and IMHO, are probably not someone I would do business with anyways.

I wouldn't know how to take that kind of cash out of my account anyway. And walking around Atlantic City with +$10,000 in cash doesn't sound like a good idea to me. But that's just me.
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Seller's want cash so they can avoid any tax issues.

Yes, call me Mr. Obvious.
Great point. Not so obvious in that no one else mentioned it. No one pays taxes on a cash transaction.
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:06 PM
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I started collecting again last summer, and I've been to maybe 5-6 shows over that span. I noticed the exact same thing as the OP. I just take cash with me, then when I run out, I make another trip to the ATM. This last show I actually made 2 trips to the ATM, even though it was about a 10 minute drive from the hotel.

I do find it frustrating that dealers haven't evolved with the technology that makes life so much easier as consumers, but it is what it is. I understand the points that others have brought up here, but it's still a strange business model... I readily admit I don't spend as much at shows as I would if plastic were accepted. You'd think that limitation would be enough for most dealers to upgrade (as it has worked in just about every other industry/market that exists).

All that being said, I try to use cash whenever I can when buying my cards, especially at my LCS. I understand the fees associated with plastic are a burden that the seller bears, so I like using cash to help out where I can.
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Beatles Guy View Post
Dealers have been slow to embrace technology IMO. I've found that many times they have the ability to take a credit card, but are unwilling to because of the fees.
Or because of the IRS
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  #47  
Old 04-11-2016, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pokerplyr80 View Post
I assumed you would need to take cash or be willing to pay the fees with a card with most dealers. But it makes sense that some would not be willing to accept them because of the risk of charge backs. I can't imagine accepting a check for a few grand from someone I have never met. At least not without verifying an account balance on a banking app or something. When I go to a show I either bring cash or assume that I will need to make a trip to the bank if I find a card I really want.

I have had a dealer let me send the money paypal ff for a 1,500 card at a recent show.
I've never had anyone not take a check. Even if the person doesn't know you in advance, you chat a few minutes, you find you know people in common who will vouch for you, the person gets comfortable with you and realizes you are not about to start a life of crime by bouncing a check for his card. This is still a people business, or should be.
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I've never had anyone not take a check. Even if the person doesn't know you in advance, you chat a few minutes, you find you know people in common who will vouch for you, the person gets comfortable with you and realizes you are not about to start a life of crime by bouncing a check for his card. This is still a people business, or should be.
That makes sense, I just wouldn't have thought to bring a check book. I suppose if you know enough people in the hobby you will find a mutual acquaintance. I've just always assumed I would need cash. I check if there's a Wells Fargo in the area before going to a show. Next time I will bring my check book. Do most dealers take checks at the national?
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:09 PM
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Great point Peter. At any big show I can find someone who will say my check "might" be good. But that assumes you have some history....good or bad
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Old 04-11-2016, 06:46 PM
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I was actually surprised at this past year's National that a dealer asked me how I would be paying. I had been under the impression that sales were cash only simply due to the dealers' fears of getting burnt. It was eye-opening for me.

Mark
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