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  #1  
Old 08-11-2017, 11:47 AM
Jenx34 Jenx34 is offline
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Default Mantle fake?

Just wanted to verify this is a fake. It appears based on info from Google that it is. But I don't know Mick's autograph like you guys on the board do. Which brings me to 2 additional questions....

1. Is pretty much everything with a COA from Guaranteed Forensic Authentication (GFA) bogus?

2. Are there basic things to look for in a Mantle autograph to tell whether it is legit or a fake?

Thanks,
Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mantle Photo.jpg (45.6 KB, 431 views)
File Type: jpg Mantle Photo_2.jpg (46.1 KB, 430 views)
File Type: jpg Mantle_GFA.jpg (71.8 KB, 435 views)
File Type: jpg Mantle_COA.jpg (44.7 KB, 429 views)
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2017, 02:14 PM
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1) Yes it is bad
2) I don't think you can ever say that everything is bad that is certed by any company, but GFA is not thought of as one of the best to my knowledge.
3) Many in here refrain from posting specifics due to the fact that we don't want to educate the scammers that are likely reading this forum as well. In this auto the give away is the M's. they are just bad.
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  #3  
Old 08-11-2017, 02:42 PM
Jenx34 Jenx34 is offline
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Okay, follow up question. What is the general reliability of authentications from The Score Board, Inc. signed by Ken Goldin? Is that the same Goldin that runs Goldin Auctions now?

Thoughts?
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  #4  
Old 08-11-2017, 03:59 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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GFA (Stephen Rocchi) was started in Sept. 2011.

I have yet to see an authentic Mantle, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays or Koufax with a COA from GFA.

Rocchi charges $25.00 for his so-called "Forensic Examination."

What the heck does forensics have to do with opining autographs!!!



http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...cchi-certified
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2017, 04:34 PM
Jenx34 Jenx34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
GFA (Stephen Rocchi) was started in Sept. 2011.

I have yet to see an authentic Mantle, DiMaggio, Williams, Mays or Koufax with a COA from GFA.

Rocchi charges $25.00 for his so-called "Forensic Examination."

What the heck does forensics have to do with opining autographs!!!



http://live.autographmagazine.com/fo...cchi-certified
I also saw an Ali & DiMaggio photo with the GFA COA. Should one assume the same with the Ali?
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2017, 04:39 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenx34 View Post
I also saw an Ali & DiMaggio photo with the GFA COA. Should one assume the same with the Ali?
Personally, I have yet to see one authentic autograph with a COA from Rocchi and his GFA Group.

Not one.
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenx34 View Post
Okay, follow up question. What is the general reliability of authentications from The Score Board, Inc. signed by Ken Goldin? Is that the same Goldin that runs Goldin Auctions now?

Thoughts?
Score Board is good, same Goldin.......
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2017, 05:22 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Originally Posted by gnaz01 View Post
Score Board is good, same Goldin.......
The only issue is that scammers over the last 5-7 years have used old Scoreboard certs (and copies and edited versions) to sell forgeries.

The majority of those who buy autographs, purchase the cert and not the autograph.


http://live.autographmagazine.com/pr...age=1#comments
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2017, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
The only issue is that scammers over the last 5-7 years have used old Scoreboard certs (and copies and edited versions) to sell forgeries.

The majority of those who buy autographs, purchase the cert and not the autograph.


http://live.autographmagazine.com/pr...age=1#comments
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:39 PM
Jenx34 Jenx34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere View Post
The only issue is that scammers over the last 5-7 years have used old Scoreboard certs (and copies and edited versions) to sell forgeries.

The majority of those who buy autographs, purchase the cert and not the autograph.


http://live.autographmagazine.com/pr...age=1#comments
I guess that's the point of the cert. For someone like me who only has autographs he has had personally signed or given to me from someone I know, I can't tell a fake from the real thing. So if I see an item that looks cool, I have to rely on a cert.

Here are a couple of pieces from The Sports Card, Inc that caught my eye.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Williams_1.jpg (56.5 KB, 355 views)
File Type: jpg Williams_2.jpg (67.4 KB, 354 views)
File Type: jpg Williams_COA.jpg (70.7 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg 500 HR_1.jpg (75.6 KB, 354 views)
File Type: jpg 500 HR_cert.jpg (40.4 KB, 352 views)
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  #11  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:44 PM
Jenx34 Jenx34 is offline
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Default Yankee Immortals

Here's one more with a strange cert. It's numbered so maybe some have seen this one before? Looked on ebay and this photo is up for sale with many different frames and presentations, none numbered the same way this one is, but the kicker is there are several different COA's for this pic online. One stated it came from The Sports Board, Inc's inventory. This one is all over the place so definitely need the pros eyes on the sigs.

Thanks in advance,
Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Yankees_1.jpg (71.0 KB, 255 views)
File Type: jpg Yankees_2.jpg (71.3 KB, 253 views)
File Type: jpg Yankees_3.jpg (67.1 KB, 254 views)
File Type: jpg Yankees_4.jpg (45.4 KB, 254 views)
File Type: jpg Yankees_cert.jpg (26.0 KB, 252 views)

Last edited by Jenx34; 08-11-2017 at 10:53 PM. Reason: added info
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:01 AM
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Scoreboard has an interesting reputation. Since the fraudsters have gone to copying & switching out COAs, I've picked up good Scoreboard stuff up cheap.

Did the proliferation of phony Scoreboard COAs just occur (because of their strong reputation in the past) or was that going on while they were in business?

Last edited by MrSeven; 08-12-2017 at 12:02 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:30 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenx34 View Post
Here's one more with a strange cert. It's numbered so maybe some have seen this one before? Looked on ebay and this photo is up for sale with many different frames and presentations, none numbered the same way this one is, but the kicker is there are several different COA's for this pic online. One stated it came from The Sports Board, Inc's inventory. This one is all over the place so definitely need the pros eyes on the sigs.

Thanks in advance,
Chris
YMC is just one of dozens of 'Florida" COAs.

They all come from the same source.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 08-12-2017 at 05:30 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:32 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
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The "Scoreboard" items in the previous posts are all fakes with bogus photocopied Scoreboard COAs. Real Scoreboard COAs didn't look like a 3rd generation photocopy.

Scoreboard product was all good. Unfortunately, their very simple paper COAs have been targeted by scammers who copied them over the past 20 years. At this point, I think there are more bogus Scoreboard COAs in circulation than real.
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:41 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenx34 View Post
Here's one more with a strange cert. It's numbered so maybe some have seen this one before? Looked on ebay and this photo is up for sale with many different frames and presentations, none numbered the same way this one is, but the kicker is there are several different COA's for this pic online. One stated it came from The Sports Board, Inc's inventory. This one is all over the place so definitely need the pros eyes on the sigs.

Thanks in advance,
Chris
Rocchi and GFA have "certed" hundreds of those forgeries.

Not even hand-penned.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:49 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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The below is one of those with a "cert" from Rocchi and GFA.

Sold by Ebay seller Spanishcrown360 (a major seller of forgeries on Ebay) for a whopping $102.50.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multi-Signed...p2047675.l2557






spanishcrown360-100.jpg

spanishcrown360-101.jpg
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:20 AM
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Tony Podsada used to be associated with score board. He has printed out thousands of fake score board certs. He has also sold millions and millions of dollars worth of forged material.
I would suggest that anything with autographs coming out of the state of Florida and or from GAI stay as far away as possible.
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:43 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Default Ebay seller Homeplatememorabilia-23 forged signed Mickey Mantle Photo

Here is the absolute latest "Florida" COA.

It's from "new" Ebay seller Homeplatememorabilia-23.

COA, of course, from Home Plate Memorabilia.

Selling the same mass-produced forgeries out of Florida.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantl...8AAOSwLgtZjNc8





homeplatememorabilia23-1.jpg

homeplatememorabilia23-2.jpg

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 08-12-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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  #19  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:56 AM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
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They stand behind this autograph...just before running away. LOL
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:28 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Default Ebay seller Boxscorecollectibles Forged Signed Mantle DiMaggio Ford Martin

Another recent and new "Florida" COA is Boxscorecollectibles from Ebay seller Boxscorecollectibles (duh).


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Joe-DiMaggio...p2047675.l2557



Boxscorecollectibles-1.jpg

Boxscorecollectibles-2.jpg




The above set of Mantle, DiMaggio, Ford and Martin forgeries sold for a whopping $59.99.

The recent "Florida" forgeries are, for the most part, hand penned and are simply laughable.

The earliest "Florida" forgeries (certed by Morales, Ted Taylor, Drew Max and Stephen Rocchi) are not hand-signed.

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 08-12-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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  #21  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:54 PM
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I'd love to see the photo paper branding on one of these.
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  #22  
Old 08-13-2017, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSeven View Post
I'd love to see the photo paper branding on one of these.
I've had a few in hand. There was no marking on back, of course. But they are inkjet prints... Not lab produced photographs.

So a dealer spends big bucks to get these guys to sign a ton of photos back in the 90s -- earlier for Maris and Martin. It makes total sense they would use 5x7 inkjet photos.
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:35 AM
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Love that Home Plate COA. They're standing behind it completely...and if they walk around the edge of the table, they'll be standing behind it partially...and if they walk to the other side of the table, they're standing in front of it.

What kind of guarantee is that? They're making the effort to produce these, you'd think they'd come up with something that at least sounds professional and confidence inspiring.
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  #24  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
I've had a few in hand. There was no marking on back, of course. But they are inkjet prints... Not lab produced photographs.

So a dealer spends big bucks to get these guys to sign a ton of photos back in the 90s -- earlier for Maris and Martin. It makes total sense they would use 5x7 inkjet photos.
I have quite a few of those that I purchased from AtAuction.

The forgeries are so bad, that the shipping cost more than the forged autograph.

All on inkjet paper.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:22 PM
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They stand behind this autograph...just before running away. LOL
Mike, they don't run: they just move on to another worthless COA.
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  #26  
Old 08-18-2017, 09:01 AM
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Is it me or does these 100% guarantees make it easier for the feds to crack down on them? If they were so inclined?
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2017, 12:28 PM
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These photos bring back memories from trips to Las Vegas. My work took me Vegas often and within 30 minutes checking into the hotel I would head over well know card store on strip. I bought a ton of stuff from them , the items were well framed and the autographs were in clear blue sharpie. One time I told them I was looking for a Mays autograph and before I went home they had one in stock. What luck . I was walking near the store the day it was raided by the FBI.


The good news thanks to a helpful San Diego FBI agent I received all my money back via court settlement from the seller.

The were all Greg Marino forgeries

Lesson learned.
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Old 08-18-2017, 01:03 PM
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Is it me or does these 100% guarantees make it easier for the feds to crack down on them? If they were so inclined?

Just to let you know. Richard, Chris and I worked hand in hand with law reinforcement for the past seven years. It all came to and end when the FBI in Florida refused to issue warrants
If any one of you want to call your local FBI and get this started again it would be greatly appreciated.
.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2017, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper View Post
I've had a few in hand. There was no marking on back, of course. But they are inkjet prints... Not lab produced photographs.

So a dealer spends big bucks to get these guys to sign a ton of photos back in the 90s -- earlier for Maris and Martin. It makes total sense they would use 5x7 inkjet photos.
I'm talking about the ones that are obviously stretched JPEG of people who died before that was even a thing.

Last edited by MrSeven; 08-18-2017 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redalpha7 View Post
These photos bring back memories from trips to Las Vegas. My work took me Vegas often and within 30 minutes checking into the hotel I would head over well know card store on strip. I bought a ton of stuff from them , the items were well framed and the autographs were in clear blue sharpie. One time I told them I was looking for a Mays autograph and before I went home they had one in stock. What luck . I was walking near the store the day it was raided by the FBI.


The good news thanks to a helpful San Diego FBI agent I received all my money back via court settlement from the seller.

The were all Greg Marino forgeries

Lesson learned.
That FBI raid on that store was either televised live or in a news story about the raid. I remember seeing it on TV. The owner of the store was whimpering like a little baby when the Feds hauled off all his crap.
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  #31  
Old 08-19-2017, 08:26 AM
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The store was Smokey's in Nevada.
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  #32  
Old 08-19-2017, 12:06 PM
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Yes

Between New York and Monte Carlo casinos using present day landmarks

The staff was so friendly

T
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  #33  
Old 08-19-2017, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post
Just to let you know. Richard, Chris and I worked hand in hand with law reinforcement for the past seven years. It all came to and end when the FBI in Florida refused to issue warrants
If any one of you want to call your local FBI and get this started again it would be greatly appreciated.
.

What a waste of time and effort on our part.
A major disappointment for the three of us and a lesson learned about LE.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:00 PM
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Score Board is good, same Goldin.......
If I remember correctly though they had a box of their certs stolen from a loading dock. While I trust them, I have unfortunately run across any number of fakes with their cert.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:07 PM
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Just to let you know. Richard, Chris and I worked hand in hand with law reinforcement for the past seven years. It all came to and end when the FBI in Florida refused to issue warrants
If any one of you want to call your local FBI and get this started again it would be greatly appreciated.
.
The FBI doesn't issue warrants, the courts do.
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  #36  
Old 08-19-2017, 06:02 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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The FBI doesn't issue warrants, the courts do.
Semantics.

The point Shelly was making is that nothing was done.
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  #37  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:51 AM
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What a waste of time and effort on our part.
A major disappointment for the three of us and a lesson learned about LE.
Law enforcement doesn't issue "warrants". The FBI and local LE acts on warrants and indictments issued by the court and has very little control over it. Get a clue before you and Shelly continue to throw law enforcement officers under the bus. The problem is with your local district attorney or US attorneys office.

BTW: they may also be a little busy with the never ending amount of violent crime occurring nationwide on a daily basis.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:53 AM
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Semantics.

The point Shelly was making is that nothing was done.
Chris,
It's not semantics. LE often is left frustrated and disheartened when attorneys fail to act on their hard work. This comment pretty much cements my comment above. Get a clue
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
Law enforcement doesn't issue "warrants". The FBI and local LE acts on warrants and indictments issued by the court and has very little control over it. Get a clue before you and Shelly continue to throw law enforcement officers under the bus. The problem is with your local district attorney or US attorneys office.

BTW: they may also be a little busy with the never ending amount of violent crime occurring nationwide on a daily basis.
Ok. The proper wording was the US Attorney's office dropped the ball.
That was told to me by a former FBI agent who was involved in the case from the start of it until it was transferred out of his jurisdiction to the FBI in Florida. He was involved in other cases involving hobby forgery and has been instrumental in the fight against forgers. He is now a retired FBI agent and consults for the FBI.
He called me, Shelly and Chris to personally tell us that the US Attorney was dropping the case and he was distraught about it.
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 08-20-2017 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
The FBI doesn't issue warrants, the courts do.
I agree the courts issue the warrants if they are asked to do so. The FBI refused to pursue the case.
You have seen all the phony photos that have been coming out if Florida.
Well the FBI lab in Phoenix found them to on paper that was not yet issued until ten years after Mantle died. They sent this information plus many other facts that proved that all the signatures where fake.
The Miami FBI refused to do anything about it period case closed.
It will take the people on this site to call there local FBI.
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Old 08-20-2017, 09:46 AM
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Though it is not "violent crime" it was multi millions of $$$. Certainly enough to warrant a prosecution. And obviously, due to the diligence of Chris, we still see that this garbage is still being sold.
The evidence, seemingly to Shelly, myself and Chris, was very strong and we still scratch our heads that the case was dropped.
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:20 PM
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Everyone continues to blame law enforcement when cases are brought or dropped by the US attorney or district attorney. Also, "proof" is what can be presented or proven in a court of law, not some forum discussion where people or bloggers discuss something endlessly. If you know anything about the law you should know that most evidence doesn't even make it to court or does not "prove" anything.
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Old 08-20-2017, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
Chris,
It's not semantics. LE often is left frustrated and disheartened when attorneys fail to act on their hard work. This comment pretty much cements my comment above. Get a clue
I will agree to disagree with you, Jason.

In this context, it's semantics.

If you knew what we know, you would agree.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
Everyone continues to blame law enforcement when cases are brought or dropped by the US attorney or district attorney. Also, "proof" is what can be presented or proven in a court of law, not some forum discussion where people or bloggers discuss something endlessly. If you know anything about the law you should know that most evidence doesn't even make it to court or does not "prove" anything.
There was major forensic evidence in this case. And not the type of forensic evidence that we mock here.
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Old 08-20-2017, 02:54 PM
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That's fine, but it falls on the US Attorneys office, not law enforcement.
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  #46  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo View Post
That's fine, but it falls on the US Attorneys office, not law enforcement.
Not in this case.

That's why I previously wrote "If you knew what we know."

Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 08-20-2017 at 04:07 PM.
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  #47  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:16 PM
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Christopher Williams
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In the whole scheme of things, this is only important to us, which is why I continue to do what I do.

There are many, many more pressing issues in this world.

For the most part, I am over it now, but it is still very frustrating.
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  #48  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:43 AM
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Eskimo, just so you know. The FBI agents who where handling this case told the US Attorney that they did not want to go further with the case. It was then closed. Even with all the evidence.
This is what we have been told by the ex FBI agent we are working with.
If you have a problem with that then there is nothing we can say to change your mind.
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  #49  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shelly View Post
Eskimo, just so you know. The FBI agents who where handling this case told the US Attorney that they did not want to go further with the case. It was then closed. Even with all the evidence.
This is what we have been told by the ex FBI agent we are working with.
If you have a problem with that then there is nothing we can say to change your mind.
Absolutely.
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  #50  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:25 PM
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Ok, well I stand corrected on this case. It's gets pretty old when the same people continue to bash the system (i.e. LE) when most people don't know how the system works. The system sucks and most people tend to blame the lowest common denominator which is LE. As if they want to let crime run rampant in all aspects of society. The failure is with your local district attorney or US attorney office. Even with this story, I would bet that there is more to the story than what you are being told.
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