Restored Honus Wagner at SCP Auctions

[rats60]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

I agree with this point. Regardless whether the AH is the party entering the bogus bid, the objective is the same -- to induce the bidder to believe a bid reflects genuine market interest from a "real" bidder. The only distinction between this practice and "regular" shill bidding is that this practice is forewarned in the auction rules
as allowed to take place. As I stated in my original post (which for some strange reason -- senior moment? -- refers to AHs as HAs), I regard this distinction to be unconvincing.

Disagree. By this logic starting any card with an opening bid of more than .01 is shill bidding. There is very little difference between starting a card with a high opening bid and having a reserve. I have seen cards get no bids or one bid in auctions. I prefer the reserve being posted at sometime before the auction and not remain hidden.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by rats60

Disagree. By this logic starting any card with an opening bid of more than .01 is shill bidding. There is very little difference between starting a card with a high opening bid and having a reserve. I have seen cards get no bids or one bid in auctions. I prefer the reserve being posted at sometime before the auction and not remain hidden.

If pursuant to the auction rules the house is allowed to open the bidding (which is not the case with some AHs), then in that instance (i.e., an opening bid placed to give the impression of actual market interest at that level when in fact there is none), then yes, I would refer to that as a shill bid.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by rats60

Disagree. By this logic starting any card with an opening bid of more than .01 is shill bidding. There is very little difference between starting a card with a high opening bid and having a reserve. I have seen cards get no bids or one bid in auctions. I prefer the reserve being posted at sometime before the auction and not remain hidden.

I have to disagree with the logic here. Neither a high starting bid nor a reserve is the problem. It's the appearance of market interest in a card that is created by "bids" that aren't by someone intending to purchase. A high starting bid or a public reserve doesn't create that false impression.

That being said I don't believe in high starting bids or reserves either, but I have no problem chalking that up to personal taste and don't see anything wrong with either practice

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by rats60

Disagree. By this logic starting any card with an opening bid of more than .01 is shill bidding. There is very little difference between starting a card with a high opening bid and having a reserve. I have seen cards get no bids or one bid in auctions. I prefer the reserve being posted at sometime before the auction and not remain hidden.

Reserves should be posted and represent the starting point for bids. All subsequent bids should be by potential buyers prepared to pay that amount plus the vig. Any other method could only be for the purpose of creating false impressions among buyers: either that they could win the item with a bid less than a secret reserve, or in the instance at hand, that bids are coming from real collectors but are actually the AH bumping the bidding up toward said reserve. When secrets are only kept from the buyers, that strikes me as shady business. Just my opinion.

[Hankphenom]

And I would MUCH rather own the unrestored version of this card, not even a close call, IMO. Considering the rarity and iconic status in the hobby, it looks fine, in fact it's a compliment to its appeal that it survived 100+ years in that condition without being tossed away at some point.