Larry Fritsch Question

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Posted By: James Feagin

This has been asked in the past, but I recently got Larry Fritsch's catalog and there is plenty that I want at excellent prices. Has anyone had any recent success with him in regards to grading accurately? I remember in the past he was grading cards 2-3 grades above that of what a professional grader would. In other words, is he STILL grading old school, or has he caught up with the times a little bit?

James

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Posted By: Bob

I have had several dealings with them lately and my rule of thumb is to always buy vgex and above and not have any worries. Larry is a little old school and an excellent graded blank back card may have a little writing on the back on a card which has a very nice front, but he has lots of cards not available anywhere else. Vgs are usually vg but below vg is a crap shoot. If you order a fair to good card you might get a good card or you might get a poor card. Their customer service is excellent and they are always great to deal with on the phone. Plus they have a money back policy to insure satisfaction so that is a definite plus.

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Posted By: Darrell

I'd agree ----- great variety of cards and great service -- lower the grading expectations and you will be satisfied ..

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Posted By: RC Mckenzie

A few weeks ago,I ordered a number of t213-1 cards, including a Cobb from them from the 'one-of-a-kind' catalog. I was really happy with the cards I received, but I'm not a condition guy at all. The cards filled holes in my set and some were in really nice condition considering the issue. I thought the prices ranged from very fair to bargains and service was great. regards

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Posted By: Richard H.

I have bought a number of 1933 goudeys and T206's from him. Generally he overgrades by a complete level - NM are actually ex-mt, Ex means vg-ex, etc.
His prices are relatively fair nonetheless.


Rich H.

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Posted By: fkw

Fritsch has been grading the same way for decades. Its the rest of the hobby that has become stricter in last 17 years (slab era).

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Posted By: Brian

I called and reserved a card last spring. Sent my check the same day. Check is deposited.

Several weeks later, I called for a status, and was told they sold the card to someone else. I get a refund check post marked the day I called.

I will not do business there again.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Frank Ward is correct, it is the grading services that are wrong and the dopes paying for them.

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Posted By: Brian

I have had no luck with them. I tried calling three times to find out the condition of a card, and they either said they
did not know or would get back to me (which they did not). Ironically, they sent me photocopies of cards I requested, but
they could not tell me the condition of a card!
I e-mailed them and told them not to waste the paper and postage on another catalog--I am done with them.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I just dropped over $3000 on some T213-2 I thought they would definitely not have in stock. If these cards grade even two grades lower than what I bought them for, I will be pleased.

James

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Posted By: T206Collector

...a group of E95's from them once, and I was just hoping they would come in 1 grade below advertised. But supposedly VG cards had holes in them or terrific paper loss. I was very disappointed. I returned them for a full refund, which I received, but I believe I also received a note saying that I would not be permitted such a large refund/return in the future.

I will not do business with them.

The reason I like grading services is not because I agree with their technicaly definition of VG -- but rather, because I know with a reasonable sense of accuracy what a card that SGC calls VG will look like.

The only way to develop that sense of accuracy with a raw card dealer is to make a ton of purchases and hope that the dealer is being consistent in his descriptions, even though he has every incentive in the world to advertise a higher grade. Which is why you never see a dealer consistently advertising raw VG cards that are actually EX.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

After reading this thread, I decided to take a chance on a couple cards from Larry Fritch. I figured, how bad can an ex-mint card be? I was happy with my last purchase from him, but it was in 1972 and I was only 11. I bought a Drysdale rookie for 15 cents and an early Clemente for about 10 cents ... so his prices have always been fair ...

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Posted By: Chris Counts

Well, it's been just a week since I placed my order with Larry Fritsch, and I just received my cards in the mail (I paid by credit card). I ordered two W711-1's, a near mint of Frank McCormick and an ex-mint of Bucky Walters. The prices were lower than anything I'd seen on eBay in recent years, so I didn't get my hopes up. I was more than pleasantly surprised when I opened the package, especially after all I'd heard about Larry's grading. The cards were as advertised. I would have graded them essentially the same. I was very pleased with the transaction, and I'll be calling him back shortly to order a few more. The volume of his inventory, by the way, is just staggering. He had more examples of some sets than I see on eBay all year ...

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Posted By: James Feagin

I sent out my check today and should be getting my T213-2 in the middle of the next millenium waiting for the check to clear. Hope it works out

James

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Posted By: Bob

As I said previously, stick with the vgexs and better and you'll be generally pleased.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I got my order today and ouch, where's my band-aid? I really was hoping to develop a good relationship with them, but I am grateful for their refund policy. These cards were so oddly graded, and I will go over them one by one. I consider myself a pretty good grader and some of these would even make an old-schooler wince....

1914 T213-2 Coupon

Cobb (bat off shoulder) advertised (about EX). In reality this card is severely trimmed, with three heavy creases and a water-stain on the back. Actual grade if not trimmed--GD

Cobb (Portrait) advertised (GD). In reality this card had a hole through Cobb's face, multiple creases and many pencil scribbles on the back along with massive staining. Actual grade--PR

Doolan (Batting) advertised (about EX). They actually did a good job on this card, two spider creases and a clean back. Actual grade--VG or VG-EX)

Doolan (Fielding) advertised (VG-EX). One heavy creased and stained back. Actual grade--GD

Hummel advertised (EX). Two heavy creases and purple writing on the back. Actual grade--FR

Walter Johnson advertised(VG-EX). Numerous minor spider creases but with clean back. Actual grade--GD

Lennox advertised (VG-EX). Three spider creases, miscut, paper loss. Actual grade--FR

Mathewson advertised (VG-EX). Wow! Spec of paper loss on front with two significant creases. Stain on back with moderate paper loss. Actual grade--FR

Needham advertised (VG-EX). Five moderate creases with clean back. Presents well. Actual grade--GD

Schlei (Portrait) advertised (VG-EX). Four moderate creases with toned back. Actual grade--GD to GD-VG.

I'm returning the Cobb's, Mathewson and Hummel and am keeping the others. Another reminder why I only buy graded cards from SGC.

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Posted By: Paul

I recently purchased a PC796 Overall that was described as EX, but the card had no top border, so I sent it back for a refund. The actual grade I think would be a zero. I suspect SGC would not even slab it as AUTH without the top border.

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Posted By: Dylan

i was thinking about perhaps doing an order, but man i am hesitent without seeing scans first. i think ill stick with viewing before buying policy!

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Posted By: John S

James,

Thanks for the info. I have been ordering from Larry for the last twenty years with mixed results. He has an incredible inventory but as you illustrated overgraded. The only cards that I have had luck with were the ones initially graded ex-mt or above; those are usually fairly accurate. Otherwise I have found that vg often equates to fair, good to poor, etc. They are very fair about returns.

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Posted By: barrysloate

James- after reading your post it puzzles me why some of these old time dealers won't accept the fact that times have changed, and what passed for EX in 1982 doesn't work in 2007. They surely know better.

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Posted By: Dave Williams

I love reading his catalog and the descriptions.

VG-EX - (paper loss and writing on back)

EX-MT - (small punch hole in top)

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Posted By: Paul

Barry, I think the problem runs deeper than that. A severely trimmed card with three heavy creases was never classified as Ex. I wish I knew why his grading was so bad and so inconsistent. It's tempting to say that he is just trying to cheat people, but he does honor his return policy.