Verdict on screw downs

[Cmvorce]

I know that non-recessed screw downs are trouble across the board and should be avoided. But is there a consensus on recessed screw downs that for specific issue cards - T206, 52-56 Topps, standard issue, etc.

I use them but the more I read the more I wonder if I’m doing damage.

What does this forum think of recessed screw downs? And if you don’t use them, what do you use for your most valuable raw cards? Sometimes I feel like I need more than a card saver 2.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Top loader. Or if you use non recessed screwdowns, use a penny sleeve and don't overscrew.

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[tlhss]

I have nothing but raw cards in my collection. Not investment quality. I use sleeves and toploaders. And I purchase many different widths of toploaders to get the best fit.

[campyfan39]

I have never had any trouble with non recessed screw downs. Have used them for 20 years and have changed hundreds and hundreds in and out without a single issue

My old collection was in non recessed screw downs for probably 25 years. I posted some of them here and people went crazy. I started changing them over to recessed screw downs but the old ones had no issues at all. Every card was completely fine. I probably had three dozen vintage cards in them. I think where you store them is as important if not more on how you store them. Mine were always in an airtight tub and in a dry dark place. Even all my raw cards were as perfect as the day I stored them. Moisture and light are bad for any collectibles especially paper ones.

[irv]

I had my 52 Topps Mantle and Mays in screw downs for many years but quickly removed them when many on here told about the possible hazards.
Luckily I never tightened the screws anymore than I had too and I am also glad I decided to store them on their side rather than flat to help keep the weight off the actual card.

In my opinion, with recessed screw downs now available, it makes no sense to me to not use them if one likes screw downs.

[perezfan]

A fallacy created by PSA and the TPG Gods, and widely accepted by their sheeple... they want to scare you into thinking they provide a vital service.

If you like the way they look in screw-downs, then use them. As long as you don't force the screws unreasonably tight, the card will be well protected.

I have sold/traded cards that were in screwdowns for over 20 years, and all came out fine. Many of the cards' new owners felt the need to submit to TPG, and all have received the exact numerical grades that you'd expect.

Do what you like and don't buy into the self-serving agenda.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by irv

I had my 52 Topps Mantle and Mays in screw downs for many years but quickly removed them when many on here told about the possible hazards.
Luckily I never tightened the screws anymore than I had too and I am also glad I decided to store them on their side rather than flat to help keep the weight off the actual card.

In my opinion, with recessed screw downs now available, it makes no sense to me to not use them if one likes screw downs.

I have found that the recessed screw-downs often allow the card to move around within the case, and do not hold firmly enough. Especially those that are molded for tobacco-sized cards. This movement in itself can cause more damage than any perceived issue with non-recessed cases.

And I cannot even find recessed cases for Goudey... so I go with non-recessed, and not a single example has subsequently failed to numerically grade.

[triwak]

Agree with the other posters here: I have used non-recessed screw-downs for years, and have never seen any damage upon removal. I store them on their sides, and don't overtighten.

[irv]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I have found that the recessed screw-downs often allow the card to move around within the case, and do not hold firmly enough. Especially those that are molded for tobacco-sized cards. This movement in itself can cause more damage than any perceived issue with non-recessed cases.

And I cannot even find recessed cases for Goudey... so I go with non-recessed, and not a single example has subsequently failed to numerically grade.

For sure using the proper size, if available, is paramount but according to many on this site, many have had issues over the years.
Not saying one way or another if they are good or bad as I never encountered any problems the way I used and stored mine, but by the sounds of it, many have.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=152019

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by irv

For sure using the proper size, if available, is paramount but according to many on this site, many have had issues over the years.
Not saying one way or another if they are good or bad as I never encountered any problems the way I used and stored mine, but by the sounds of it, many have.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=152019

Hmmm... maybe if exposed to extreme humidity, a glossy type card could stick to the top half? Curious to know what were the specific issues, if you can recall?

I’ve never seen a detailed example from anyone but I’m betting any cards with issues have been stored in places not considered safe in any collectable situation. I know many collectors who have stored cards in places with no environmental control such as non climate controlled storage units. Where is as important as how in my experience. I’ve seen old plastic toys crumble due to poor storage. Cardboard and is even more sensitive to the elements.

[bmattioli]

I had been storing my prized cards in screw downs since 1984 but moved them to recessed holders out of fear of reading articles of the potential damage they can cause. Never saw any damage..

[Fred]

My negative experience with a screw down holder.

Purchased a T201 (very think stock card) in a screw down holder. I removed 3 of the 4 screws and while working on the fourth screw, the top part of the plastic piece barely shifted, but it was enough to tear a corner off my WaJo T201. Yeah, I was a little bummed out. Lesson learned - loosen ALL four corners before trying to remove the card.

[bnorth]

I don't store any cards in them. I do use them a lot for shipping single cards. They are the best insurance you can get against damage. Most screw downs you could run over with your car and not damage the card inside it.

[JustinD]

At the time you really did not want this to happen value wise, I tried removing a Brett Hull rookie from a screwdown. It peeled the top layer up on at minimum, a quarter of the card. This was one of those extra thick screw downs, so I was not pulling, it was basically gravity. Never touched them again.

Also, I know many people that received the dreaded “altered stock “ designation when trying to grade their 80s collections of screwdowns. This is 2021, not a chance I would use such an outdated storage method when there are so many I think are visually better.

[Fred]

I agree with Ben, great way to ship. I've always removed the cards from screw downs if I received them that way. I've always been weary that if the card was SCREWED down tight, it might actually affect the stock and possibly damage to card in one way or another.

[Cmvorce]

Thanks for all the input, guys. I guess most agree that recessed screw downs with the screws not overly tight should be ok.

[Tyruscobb]

Recessed holders are just fine, even if you fully tighten the screws. I purchased many cards already in them during the late 80s and early 90s. Some were screwed so tight that there were small spider cracks near the holes.

Who knows how long the dealers that I purchased the cards from had them in there. I kept the cards untouched and in them for more than a quarter of a century. In 2019, I had the cards all graded. They all received numerical grades.

[jchcollins]

Both types of holders are fine assuming you are at least moderately careful with your collection. Don't use a power drill to tighten screws on a non-recessed; don't use your recessed holdered cards to play long toss with in the basement when your friends come over. Valuable cards are also fine in toploaders and card savers, assuming you are not careless. Each unto their own. At various points over 35 years of collecting, I've used just about everything - and never had a major problem.

Caveat - if you use toploaders, don't drop your cards into a lake, or the toilet, in the toploader. The water will remain and become problematic. As a kid, a friend learned this lesson the hard way with a 1965 Topps Mickey Mantle.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Both types of holders are fine assuming you are at least moderately careful with your collection. Don't use a power drill to tighten screws on a non-recessed; .

however, if its a regular screwdown a power drill is fine.

has anyone actually used a power drill to seal a case?

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Wid_Conroy

however, if its a regular screwdown a power drill is fine.

has anyone actually used a power drill to seal a case?

Not me...

I just tighten until I feel mild to moderate resistance, and then stop. Actually, the hardest part of the process (with non-recessed) is perfectly centering the card, and getting it to actually stay that way.

[campyfan39]

Visually better? I don't think there is any way to display a card that is visually better than just the card itself. PSA with the bright red looks awful on most cards IMO.

When you see a graded card the first thing you look at is the number. Then you scan the card for flaws to figure out why it got that number grade. "Graded a 3? Why? Oh yeah, there is the crease/wrinkle."

When a card is displayed "raw" you just look at the card itself and appreciate the beauty of it. Graders are geniuses at marketing bc even that term "raw" has negative connotations to it, as if it is incomplete without their subjective, costly opinion. I prefer the term "pure."

At a card and coin show in the 80's I ask my late father about the grades on coins. He assured me that would never happen to cards as it would "totally detract from the beauty." Sadly he passed years ago before the advent of grading so I cannot ask him for his opinion now that it is reality.

One last thing then I will get off my soapbox haha. Just out of curiosity I went and unscrewed one of my nicest cards that has been in a 1/2 inch screwdown for more than a decade and a half. No problems at all. I think the issies are when they are stacked and all of that weight compresses. That and humidity etc.

Originally Posted by JustinD

At the time you really did not want this to happen value wise, I tried removing a Brett Hull rookie from a screwdown. It peeled the top layer up on at minimum, a quarter of the card. This was one of those extra thick screw downs, so I was not pulling, it was basically gravity. Never touched them again.

Also, I know many people that received the dreaded “altered stock “ designation when trying to grade their 80s collections of screwdowns. This is 2021, not a chance I would use such an outdated storage method when there are so many I think are visually better.

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Visually better? I don't think there is any way to display a card that is visually better than just the card itself. PSA with the bright red looks awful on most cards IMO.

When you see a graded card the first thing you look at is the number. Then you scan the card for flaws to figure out why it got that number grade. "Graded a 3? Why? Oh yeah, there is the crease/wrinkle."

When a card is displayed "raw" you just look at the card itself and appreciate the beauty of it. Graders are geniuses at marketing bc even that term "raw" has negative connotations to it, as if it is incomplete without their subjective, costly opinion. I prefer the term "pure."

At a card and coin show in the 80's I ask my late father about the grades on coins. He assured me that would never happen to cards as it would "totally detract from the beauty." Sadly he passed years ago before the advent of grading so I cannot ask him for his opinion now that it is reality.

One last thing then I will get off my soapbox haha. Just out of curiosity I went and unscrewed one of my nicest cards that has been in a 1/2 inch screwdown for more than a decade and a half. No problems at all. I think the issies are when they are stacked and all of that weight compresses. That and humidity etc.

Completely agree with you. I had a perfect Red Heart Mantle in one for over 25 years. Card was fine a few weeks ago when I took it out. Still had the nice finish of the card intact. Keeping them in a temperature controlled environment and away from moisture and light is critical no matter what you have them stored in. I also collect vintage 1960's GI Joes and watched perfect rubber scuba suits on figures rot right before my eyes from absorbing humidity here. They were perfect for years when I lived in North Texas but the humidity here is brutal. I now have a humidity control unit in my collectables room. Necessary item here in Central Texas.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Visually better? I don't think there is any way to display a card that is visually better than just the card itself. PSA with the bright red looks awful on most cards IMO.

When you see a graded card the first thing you look at is the number. Then you scan the card for flaws to figure out why it got that number grade. "Graded a 3? Why? Oh yeah, there is the crease/wrinkle."

When a card is displayed "raw" you just look at the card itself and appreciate the beauty of it. Graders are geniuses at marketing bc even that term "raw" has negative connotations to it, as if it is incomplete without their subjective, costly opinion. I prefer the term "pure."

At a card and coin show in the 80's I ask my late father about the grades on coins. He assured me that would never happen to cards as it would "totally detract from the beauty." Sadly he passed years ago before the advent of grading so I cannot ask him for his opinion now that it is reality.

One last thing then I will get off my soapbox haha. Just out of curiosity I went and unscrewed one of my nicest cards that has been in a 1/2 inch screwdown for more than a decade and a half. No problems at all. I think the issies are when they are stacked and all of that weight compresses. That and humidity etc.

I think you are only considering graded slabs, I don’t mind the Beckett or older flip sgc personally, however as someone who does not submit that was not what I was talking about. As it is just preference really, I use mostly magnetic UltraPro holders as I like the shine, look and quality as well as how they enhance my card. I have hundreds and never had one open unwanted and the proper thickness keeps movement to less than a graded slab without an ugly baggie in it.

I can’t imagine having piles of half inch or three quarter inch oversized slabs and having a sizable collection. I have at minimum 300 thousand cards and it already takes up an entire room. It’s just preferable for looks and space to me.

[nebboy]

becouse all thread need cards in them here is my screw down card desater. 3 corners with chipping of the surface. It took a card from a fairly nice condition maybe a (psa6) or so, to a how knows what it would grade now? You guys can make your own guess.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Originally Posted by nebboy

becouse all thread need cards in them here is my screw down card desater. 3 corners with chipping of the surface. It took a card from a fairly nice condition maybe a (psa6) or so, to a how knows what it would grade now? You guys can make your own guess.

No penny sleeve?

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[campyfan39]

Any context? How long was it in there? How was it stored? What was temp and humidity in place it was stored etc?

Originally Posted by nebboy

becouse all thread need cards in them here is my screw down card desater. 3 corners with chipping of the surface. It took a card from a fairly nice condition maybe a (psa6) or so, to a how knows what it would grade now? You guys can make your own guess.

[campyfan39]

Justin, check these pics out. I don't have them in piles I have all of my cards displayed so I can enjoy them. God bless

Originally Posted by JustinD

I think you are only considering graded slabs, I don’t mind the Beckett or older flip sgc personally, however as someone who does not submit that was not what I was talking about. As it is just preference really, I use mostly magnetic UltraPro holders as I like the shine, look and quality as well as how they enhance my card. I have hundreds and never had one open unwanted and the proper thickness keeps movement to less than a graded slab without an ugly baggie in it.

I can’t imagine having piles of half inch or three quarter inch oversized slabs and having a sizable collection. I have at minimum 300 thousand cards and it already takes up an entire room. It’s just preferable for looks and space to me.

[Jacklitsch]

These are the ones I use. Recessed. Never a problem.

From Safeco Plastics, Inc. Huntington Beach. Don't know if they're still in business.

[Cmvorce]

Chris, love the display wall

[triwak]

^ This!! Terrific display.

[perezfan]

Same.... Absolutely LOVE the wall display, Chris! A true labor of love!

On a separate note.... Why the hell isn't there a recessed holder option for Goudey???

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Justin, check these pics out. I don't have them in piles I have all of my cards displayed so I can enjoy them. God bless

Chris, I have meant to tell you this on the postwar side, but I love your collection and approach.

[Cmvorce]

All that color looks so good up there

[Cmvorce]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Same.... Absolutely LOVE the wall display, Chris! A true labor of love!

On a separate note.... Why the hell isn't there a recessed holder option for Goudey???

The fact that a recessed Goudey holder doesn’t exist blows my mind.

[almostdone]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

Chris, I have meant to tell you this on the postwar side, but I love your collection and approach.

As someone that has seen Chris’ collection in person believe me it is a thing of jeolousy, er I mean, beauty.

Drew

Btw, it is fun flipping one of Chris’ holders upside down just to wait to see how long before his OCD senses perk up. I swear he can hear if a card is slightly out of place.😁.
Just kidding buddy.
Drew

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by almostdone

As someone that has seen Chris’ collection in person believe me it is a thing of jeolousy, er I mean, beauty.

Drew

Btw, it is fun flipping one of Chris’ holders upside down just to wait to see how long before his OCD senses perk up. I swear he can hear if a card is slightly out of place.😁.
Just kidding buddy.
Drew

I can tell right away from the symmetrical and meticulously even placement, that he and I share the same disease.

[nebboy]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Any context? How long was it in there? How was it stored? What was temp and humidity in place it was stored etc?

Not much info to give, because I bought the card in this condition. The seller use said that he had stored the card in a 3/4 to 1" screw down holder. He was so mad with himself about the damage, that he sold the card to me very cheap. As soon as I handed him the money he payed out for and bought another 56 Mantle in a psa 7. I was in the right place at the right time.

[campyfan39]

Thank you everyone for the nice comments. Yes OCD can be good sometimes haha. There is certainly some monetary value to my collection (not in comparison to some on this board who I love looking at their stuff) yet almost all of my cards have memories and connections. Most of those wonderful memories are with my late father and my wife who supports my addiction
Not to hijack this thread but here are a couple more pics:
God Bless



Autographed 53's (my favorite set)

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Thank you everyone for the nice comments. Yes OCD can be good sometimes haha. There is certainly some monetary value to my collection (not in comparison to some on this board who I love looking at their stuff) yet almost all of my cards have memories and connections. Most of those wonderful memories are with my late father and my wife who supports my addiction
Not to hijack this thread but here are a couple more pics:
God Bless



Autographed 53's (my favorite set)

That is amazing, thank you for sharing!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

Thank you everyone for the nice comments. Yes OCD can be good sometimes haha. There is certainly some monetary value to my collection (not in comparison to some on this board who I love looking at their stuff) yet almost all of my cards have memories and connections. Most of those wonderful memories are with my late father and my wife who supports my addiction

Not to hijack this thread but here are a couple more pics:

God Bless







Autographed 53's (my favorite set)

Amazing, Chris!! I love all those ungraded cards together!

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[topcat61]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I have found that the recessed screw-downs often allow the card to move around within the case, and do not hold firmly enough. Especially those that are molded for tobacco-sized cards. This movement in itself can cause more damage than any perceived issue with non-recessed cases.

And I cannot even find recessed cases for Goudey... so I go with non-recessed, and not a single example has subsequently failed to numerically grade.

If you use a sleeve first, and then the screwdown, you wont have any problems.

[SD]

I have had paper and print loss from cheap 70s plastic slabs sticking to the card. Sleeved first and I don't see an issue.

[ALR-bishop]

I do not store them in slabs and am an ungraded collector. In building my 74 Deckle sets I twice bought cards in non recessed slabs that when opened resulted in some damage from the cards being stuck to one surface. Agree with some of the above comments that this may have resulted from conditions in which they were stored. But since then I have always insisted that a seller showing a card in such a holder first send me a picture front and back of the card out of the holder before buying/bidding. If they say no I pass

[irv]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I do not store them in slabs and am an ungraded collector. In building my 74 Deckle sets I twice bought cards in non recessed slabs that when opened resulted in some damage from the cards being stuck to one surface. Agree with some of the above comments that this may have resulted from conditions in which they were stored. But since then I have always insisted that a seller showing a card in such a holder first send me a picture front and back of the card out of the holder before buying/bidding. If they say no I pass

I purchased a Darryl Sittler RC that was in a thin screw down slab. Trusting the sellers description and not seeing anything suspect in the scans, I purchased it but found out the hard way, once it was freed from the screw down, that it was creased horizontally across the middle of the card. Lesson learned but I was refunded and sent the card back.