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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

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  #401  
Old 02-20-2023, 09:39 AM
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The card I posted a picture of on 12/22 has been reholdered by PSA.... but $39 later (including shipping) the label stayed the same. Here is the new scan from PSA. I still don't get it. I guess they are no longer putting the Ad on Scoreboard label on any version other than the clear?? After so much back and forth with them on this particular submission I will not be sending any more RJs to PSA. Be careful if having this particular label from a TPG matters to you. Steve
That sucks. I don't care what they label them as if they would at least be consistent with those labels. PSA sucks at labeling the 89 Fleer Bill Ripken cards also. There are several different versions they will label as "Black Scribble Over Error" and those different versions can vary in price from $10 to $1250 in the same grade.

With all the different versions I am not sure there is a realistic way for them to get it correct most of the time. With the 3 different color tints and the huge amount of difference in the darkness of the tints even in the same color of tints, then add in the stencil and box versions it really is just too much.

Last edited by bnorth; 02-20-2023 at 09:54 AM.
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  #402  
Old 02-20-2023, 07:56 PM
steve5838 steve5838 is offline
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That sucks. I don't care what they label them as if they would at least be consistent with those labels. PSA sucks at labeling the 89 Fleer Bill Ripken cards also. There are several different versions they will label as "Black Scribble Over Error" and those different versions can vary in price from $10 to $1250 in the same grade.

With all the different versions I am not sure there is a realistic way for them to get it correct most of the time. With the 3 different color tints and the huge amount of difference in the darkness of the tints even in the same color of tints, then add in the stencil and box versions it really is just too much.
Ben, I think you are probably right. I do care how they label my cards though so I guess I am glad I purchased when I did and most of mine say Ad on Scoreboard. Still I think PSA owes it to customers to clarify their new labeling convention and confirm it has in fact changed. People are willing to pay more for the Scoreboard label and its not fair to suck money from customers who are assuming their cards will get the Scoreboard label designations (based on all the pictures of PSA slabbed Scoreboard labeled cards that show up when you search APR recent sales on PSA's own site). It seems like bait and switch to me. It just isn't right. I don't care where they draw the lines between their 3 defined versions so long as they are transparent with what the distinguishing criteria are and consistent with the application. Steve

Last edited by steve5838; 02-20-2023 at 08:04 PM.
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  #403  
Old 02-21-2023, 12:15 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
That sucks. I don't care what they label them as if they would at least be consistent with those labels.
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Originally Posted by steve5838 View Post
It just isn't right. I don't care where they draw the lines between their 3 defined versions so long as they are transparent with what the distinguishing criteria are and consistent with the application. Steve
Tall, tall order at this point in time. As we all know, they never have been and there is no incentive for them to start. PSA of today has a mostly antagonistic relationship with its customers, especially toward those bothering them with nonsense like variations and "difficult" items (aka anything not in Beckett/SCD annuals).
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  #404  
Old 02-21-2023, 01:02 PM
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I am not a graded collector and have never sent a card to be graded, but I get why grading companies would not be well equipped to deal with odd ball or non standard items. Since Lemke retired and then the catalogs quit publishing there is no real viable vehicle to get variations/variants widespread hobby recognition that the grading companies can follow

I like the update Mike Cady is doing to the Gilkeson publications but it does not seem to be widely followed. And it involves the same problem of what is or should be the accepted definition of a variation in the hobby.

If you just like to collect variations, variants, recurring print defects and print oddities it does not matter much. But if your goal is increasing the value of your oddities I guess PSA or other grading company recognition of them is your only route at present.
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  #405  
Old 03-29-2023, 11:47 AM
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Default Mention of #381 in April PSA Magazine

I just received the April 2023 copy of PSA Magazine and was pleasantly surprised to see a call out to #381 in an article titled "Cinderella Men". The writeup is riddled with inaccurate info (and it would have been nice if they had shown one of the versions where you can make out the sign) but nonetheless I figured others here may be interested.
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  #406  
Old 03-30-2023, 10:48 AM
Statfreak101 Statfreak101 is offline
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Thanks for sharing.

That picture and example is LMAO material.
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  #407  
Old 03-30-2023, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5838 View Post
I just received the April 2023 copy of PSA Magazine and was pleasantly surprised to see a call out to #381 in an article titled "Cinderella Men". The writeup is riddled with inaccurate info (and it would have been nice if they had shown one of the versions where you can make out the sign) but nonetheless I figured others here may be interested.
They should have borrowed a picture from you for the article. One of these days I have another card to send you.
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  #408  
Old 04-03-2023, 09:33 AM
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Letís do a little test to see if anyone here has what it takes to become a PSA card grader. Iíll post some images of graded 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson cards and ask members to identify the correct label. PSA labels the different versions of the cards Ad on Scoreboard(AOS), Ad Partially Obscured(APO) and Ad Completely Blacked Out(ACBO). Please guess which of the three labels is used for the posted cards. Are you PSA material? Weíll start with an easy one.
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  #409  
Old 04-03-2023, 10:23 AM
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Let’s do a little test to see if anyone here has what it takes to become a PSA card grader. I’ll post some images of graded 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson cards and ask members to identify the correct label. PSA labels the different versions of the cards Ad on Scoreboard(AOS), Ad Partially Obscured(APO) and Ad Completely Blacked Out(ACBO). Please guess which of the three labels is used for the posted cards. Are you PSA material? We’ll start with an easy one.
1) 1987 Topps Barry Bonds
2) 2012 Donruss Derek Jeter
3) 1910 T210 Joe Jackson
4) 1999 Fleer Tradition Wade Boggs
5) 1983 Donruss Jose Canseco

I would bet these are as close as PSA got.

EDIT: To add they are all Add Completely Blocked Out but as someone who has collected a lot of these cards PSA is about 50/50 on getting them correct.

Last edited by bnorth; 04-03-2023 at 10:36 AM.
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  #410  
Old 04-13-2023, 08:05 AM
steve5838 steve5838 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatorade View Post
Letís do a little test to see if anyone here has what it takes to become a PSA card grader. Iíll post some images of graded 1989 Fleer Randy Johnson cards and ask members to identify the correct label. PSA labels the different versions of the cards Ad on Scoreboard(AOS), Ad Partially Obscured(APO) and Ad Completely Blacked Out(ACBO). Please guess which of the three labels is used for the posted cards. Are you PSA material? Weíll start with an easy one.
I also vote for the Ad Completely Blacked Out label on each of these.
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  #411  
Old 04-17-2023, 10:56 PM
Hatorade Hatorade is offline
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Steve and Ben are both correct, but they are not PSA grader material.The cards are all examples of the common version and what should be labeled as Ad Completely Blacked Out, but instead they are labeled as all three of the different PSA versions.
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  #412  
Old 04-21-2023, 12:17 PM
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Round 2, letís try again. Are these cards Ad on Scoreboard, Ad Partially Obscured, or Ad Completely Blacked Out?
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  #413  
Old 04-21-2023, 01:09 PM
Smanzari Smanzari is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatorade View Post
Round 2, letís try again. Are these cards Ad on Scoreboard, Ad Partially Obscured, or Ad Completely Blacked Out?
Can't tell from your pics; second down on the left appears to be Partially Obscured, but could be a dark scan with the full.

I actually just found a nice stack of these and literally never noticed the "Black Box" version until I started looking (knew the others) - was kind of cool to find!
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  #414  
Old 04-21-2023, 02:57 PM
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I also vote for "Ad Partially Obscured" on all of these round 2 cards. From my recent experience with PSA this is the only label they are putting on any Marlboro cards for me these days.

Being that it's Friday I figured I would waste a little time... A while back someone asked me about light on the clear version card. I recorded a little clip that others may be interested in seeing too and posted it up on YouTube. It doesn't have sound, but I threw captions on it. I guess you need to turn on the captions though... sorry, I probably should have just recorded audio. Also, sorry for the jittery camera it was just taken on my phone.

https://youtu.be/R0BaA8letSE

Steve

Last edited by steve5838; 04-21-2023 at 03:54 PM.
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  #415  
Old 04-21-2023, 07:39 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Quote:
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Round 2, letís try again. Are these cards Ad on Scoreboard, Ad Partially Obscured, or Ad Completely Blacked Out?
Ad Completely Blacked Out. Obviously.
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  #416  
Old 04-22-2023, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage View Post
Ad Completely Blacked Out. Obviously.
This is where it gets tricky and depends where they draw the line between partially obscured and ad completely blacked out. But of course there are differences between these and the fully corrected version. As a PSA grader I think I will just go middle of the road on all these cards with the Partially Obscured label so I'm never too wrong. Haha.
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  #417  
Old 04-24-2023, 01:09 AM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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This is where it gets tricky and depends where they draw the line between partially obscured and ad completely blacked out. But of course there are differences between these and the fully corrected version. As a PSA grader I think I will just go middle of the road on all these cards with the Partially Obscured label so I'm never too wrong. Haha.
Sorry, that was overt sarcasm.
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  #418  
Old 05-06-2023, 09:36 AM
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Dylan was 100% spot on. Despite these cards all being examples of error variations, with a couple actually fairly lightly tinted versions, PSA has slapped the Ad Completely Blacked Out label on all of them. We have a new PSA grader in our midst!
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  #419  
Old 05-25-2023, 03:03 PM
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I have missed a few pages so if this was mentioned already, please forgive me. I was perusing 22' Topps Heritage and saw this one.

I am thinking this has to be on purpose as a designer joke -



Even Jeter got in on the action -

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  #420  
Old 05-27-2023, 07:40 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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Surprised to see these listed by multiple sellers. Paging Rich Klein...

https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/...board)/1950804
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  #421  
Old 05-27-2023, 09:19 PM
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Surprised to see these listed by multiple sellers. Paging Rich Klein...

https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/...board)/1950804
Then they could fix the other hundreds if not thousands of messed up listings. I used to love that site but it has been a shit show for years and has gotten a little worse every year for a long time.

You can't even search the site by recent listings of specific cards.
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  #422  
Old 05-30-2023, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JustinD View Post
I have missed a few pages so if this was mentioned already, please forgive me. I was perusing 22' Topps Heritage and saw this one.

I am thinking this has to be on purpose as a designer joke -



Even Jeter got in on the action -

I donít think this is the ad that was included in the photos used for the 2022 archives cards, but Yankee Stadium did at one time have the same Marlboro ad that was at the Vet and in the background of the 1989 Fleer Johnson error cards.
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  #423  
Old 08-24-2023, 12:41 PM
Hatorade Hatorade is offline
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Default Another image of Randy with cigarette ad?

Iím not sure how we missed this one!
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  #424  
Old 10-03-2023, 08:35 AM
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I missed out on the flash sale of these early wax boxes at BBCE but won this one over the weekend at HA. Has anyone seen an earlier date than 83222 on these?
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  #425  
Old 10-03-2023, 12:41 PM
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I missed out on the flash sale of these early wax boxes at BBCE but won this one over the weekend at HA. Has anyone seen an earlier date than 83222 on these?
Nice pick up. Are you going to open it?
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  #426  
Old 10-03-2023, 02:38 PM
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Nice pick up. Are you going to open it?
Thanks Ben. I don't have it yet. Knowing my history with unopened, I am sure I won't be able to hold off long (even though there's probably a 99% chance it's worth more unopened). I might use it as a holiday present to myself since I'm pretty excited about it. I'll definitely let you know if I pull anything good or not if/when I rip it.
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  #427  
Old 10-03-2023, 04:26 PM
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awesome steve. sorry i missed that flash sale, too!

hope you get a cool marlboro, let us know.
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  #428  
Old 01-10-2024, 10:59 PM
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It looks like another clear card surfaced recently. Were you the one who ended up winning the auction Steve?
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  #429  
Old 01-11-2024, 12:51 PM
jacksoncoupage jacksoncoupage is offline
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It looks like another clear card surfaced recently. Were you the one who ended up winning the auction Steve?
The guy pulled the auction. I was 1st or 2nd highest around $900 or so. I messaged him and asked what it cost for him to pull it and he never responded.
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  #430  
Old 01-11-2024, 12:55 PM
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The guy pulled the auction. I was 1st or 2nd highest around $900 or so. I messaged him and asked what it cost for him to pull it and he never responded.
It got resold as a BIN but I have no idea to who. Not sure how to see the price accepted anymore. Here is the listing that sold.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/37515298329...Bk9SR_K-sJ6fYw

Last edited by bnorth; 01-11-2024 at 01:04 PM.
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  #431  
Old 01-11-2024, 01:08 PM
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It got resold as a BIN but I have no idea to who. Not sure how to see the price accepted anymore. Here is the listing that sold.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/37515298329...Bk9SR_K-sJ6fYw
Oh wow. I wish I had seen it. I had prepared to fight a bit for this one. Maybe not the buy-it-now...
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  #432  
Old 01-11-2024, 01:08 PM
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According to 130point.com - sold for Best Offer of $2500.
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  #433  
Old 01-11-2024, 01:11 PM
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According to 130point.com - sold for Best Offer of $2500.
That is considerably less than I imagined it would be.
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  #434  
Old 01-11-2024, 02:16 PM
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Default And then there were 4

Yes, I purchased the card. I received a notification as soon as it was listed on eBay and sent the seller a message offering him 2k for the card if he wanted to sell it before the auction began. He didn't respond to the question and I eventually started bidding on the card. The day before the auction ended the seller reached out to me and wanted to know if I would still like to buy it outright. I told him I would and ended up paying 2500.

This is the first clear one I was able to handle raw and it was a thrill to unpack and compare against the others. I've sent the card to PSA and was going to wait until it came back before posting anything here. I do not expect a high grade on this one due to its lack of centering and corner/edge wear. The sign quality is excellent though (same as the others). I will post a scan when I get it back (supposedly by the week after next) but in the meantime here are a few pictures of the raw card.

Steve
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  #435  
Old 01-11-2024, 02:33 PM
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Cool card - congrats! I 1000% agree about being able to see the card (like this one) in the raw. Easier to examine it.
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  #436  
Old 01-11-2024, 02:44 PM
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Yes, I purchased the card. I received a notification as soon as it was listed on eBay and sent the seller a message offering him 2k for the card if he wanted to sell it before the auction began. He didn't respond to the question and I eventually started bidding on the card. The day before the auction ended the seller reached out to me and wanted to know if I would still like to buy it outright. I told him I would and ended up paying 2500.

This is the first clear one I was able to handle raw and it was a thrill to unpack and compare against the others. I've sent the card to PSA and was going to wait until it came back before posting anything here. I do not expect a high grade on this one due to its lack of centering and corner/edge wear. The sign quality is excellent though (same as the others). I will post a scan when I get it back (supposedly by the week after next) but in the meantime here are a few pictures of the raw card.

Steve
Nice, very happy it was you who ended up with it.
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  #437  
Old 01-11-2024, 03:40 PM
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According to 130point.com - sold for Best Offer of $2500.
peanuts, really
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  #438  
Old 01-11-2024, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5838 View Post
Yes, I purchased the card. I received a notification as soon as it was listed on eBay and sent the seller a message offering him 2k for the card if he wanted to sell it before the auction began. He didn't respond to the question and I eventually started bidding on the card. The day before the auction ended the seller reached out to me and wanted to know if I would still like to buy it outright. I told him I would and ended up paying 2500.

This is the first clear one I was able to handle raw and it was a thrill to unpack and compare against the others. I've sent the card to PSA and was going to wait until it came back before posting anything here. I do not expect a high grade on this one due to its lack of centering and corner/edge wear. The sign quality is excellent though (same as the others). I will post a scan when I get it back (supposedly by the week after next) but in the meantime here are a few pictures of the raw card.

Steve
Congrats! Itís crazy you own 3/4 of the clears that are known to have surfaced since the 80ís. What are the odds?! Itís going to be tough for anyone else to own one if you get all of them.
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Old 01-12-2024, 06:42 AM
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Thanks everyone! Hatorade: Funny you should mention that. Yesterday this video popped up on my phone - one of those ones that get automatically generated every so often. It's aptly titled "people I like to photograph" over the last 4 years. I bet you can guess "who" it's about...

I posted the 35 second clip on YouTube in case you're interested: https://youtu.be/jbCXZeetz0Y?feature=shared

Steve
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Old 01-13-2024, 01:38 PM
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Old 01-13-2024, 02:41 PM
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LOL, that is awesome.
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Old 01-13-2024, 03:08 PM
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Looks like a Randy Johnson partially obscured to me. Haha. I love it!
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Old 01-13-2024, 10:22 PM
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Haven't seen this version! Must be low pop!
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Old 01-15-2024, 10:31 PM
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Haven't seen this version! Must be low pop!
Low Pop and smoke free version🤣🤣🤣
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Old 01-16-2024, 06:53 AM
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Brilliant!
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Old 01-17-2024, 10:06 AM
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Default Grade popped

The grade just popped this morning. Here is a picture of the newly slabbed "clear" one. The grade is about what I expected -- my guess was 6 or 7 -- and I'm very happy to have it slabbed. One notable part of this one is that it is the first of the 4 known clears that will have its slab viewable when you search the cert number on PSA's site (it is not there yet but should be in next few days). The other 3 were graded prior to this feature.
Steve
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Old 01-17-2024, 10:52 AM
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The grade just popped this morning. Here is a picture of the newly slabbed "clear" one. The grade is about what I expected -- my guess was 6 or 7 -- and I'm very happy to have it slabbed. One notable part of this one is that it is the first of the 4 known clears that will have its slab viewable when you search the cert number on PSA's site (it is not there yet but should be in next few days). The other 3 were graded prior to this feature.
Steve
Nice, thanks for posting the picture. I hope to own one someday. I will have to get lucky and find one cheap that nobody else notices and the seller has no idea what they have.
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Old 01-17-2024, 12:08 PM
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Nice, thanks for posting the picture. I hope to own one someday. I will have to get lucky and find one cheap that nobody else notices and the seller has no idea what they have.

Thanks Ben. Yes, I think the clear (and aquamarine) ones are extremely rare but this (3rd find in the last 4 years) supports that there are likely more out there! I think this seller knew exactly what he had. He mentioned the rarity of the card and what it could go for if graded but didn't want to grade it himself. Having the uncertainty of an ungraded card that would be worth more graded and relying only on low resolution pictures made this one of my riskier purchases. It ended up being worth the risk but could have easily backfired on me - I was pretty anxious until the card arrived and I had a chance to view it under the loupe!

Last edited by steve5838; 01-17-2024 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 01-17-2024, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by steve5838 View Post
Thanks Ben. Yes, I think the clear (and aquamarine) ones are extremely rare but this (3rd find in the last 4 years) supports that there are likely more out there! I think this seller knew exactly what he had. He mentioned the rarity of the card and what it could go for if graded but didn't want to grade it himself. Having the uncertainty of an ungraded card that would be worth more graded and relying only on low resolution pictures made this one of my riskier purchases. It ended up being worth the risk but could have easily backfired on me - I was pretty anxious until the card arrived and I had a chance to view it under the loupe!
Did you ever open the early wax box and if so did it have anything good in it?
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Old 01-17-2024, 12:38 PM
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Did you ever open the early wax box and if so did it have anything good in it?
Yes and no. I caved in after New Years and opened it. Unfortunately it didn't contain a single Randy Johnson. Ugh. I pulled one nicely centered FF card but that was about it.
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