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  #101  
Old 02-07-2023, 12:41 PM
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It's hard to understand why anyone would be against cleaner living. If you don't believe in global warming that's your prerogative, but why stand in the way of cleaner living?

What is the aversion to solar and cleaner energy when it can be practically applied? Why would it be a bad thing to have less plastic in the world? What's so wrong about preserving wild habitats? Why not have more fresh water?

What is it about these efforts that gets people so riled up? Why be against them? Why suggest these efforts are in vain in some way?

I also think it's a good idea to mention that climate and temperature are not the same thing. Because it is cold for a brief stretch of time (months, weeks, days, etc.) it does not mean the overall climate is not getting warmer.

Last edited by packs; 02-07-2023 at 01:14 PM.
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  #102  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:14 PM
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What is the aversion to solar and cleaner energy when it can be practically applied? Why would it be a bad thing to have less plastic in the world? What's so wrong about preserving wild habitats? Why not have more fresh water?

What is it about these efforts that gets people so riled up? Why be against them? Why suggest these efforts are in vain in some way?
Because many of the wealthiest people on the planet spend billions of dollars each year to convince gullible citizens that these things are bad. At the same time, they make sure that politicians who will actually challenge the oil- and military- industrial complexes are never in a position to do so.

And for those who want to argue, this is not a "team red vs. team blue" thing look at what the current administration is doing in Alaska right now.
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  #103  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:20 PM
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I agree I don't think this is a political issue. There is only one planet so when I hear people talk about how expensive it would be to alter our manufacturing practices I can't help but immediately tune them out.

How much cheaper is it to live on another planet? What are you saving the money for, exactly?

Last edited by packs; 02-07-2023 at 01:21 PM.
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  #104  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:47 PM
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I agree I don't think this is a political issue. There is only one planet so when I hear people talk about how expensive it would be to alter our manufacturing practices I can't help but immediately tune them out.

How much cheaper is it to live on another planet? What are you saving the money for, exactly?
Great question. For those who are educated enough not to deny the existence of science, I believe there's a fair amount of "I'll be dead by the time my area becomes uninhabitable, so who cares?" The way things are going though, they might be wrong. Look what's already happening with water in the southwestern US.
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  #105  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
It's hard to understand why anyone would be against cleaner living. If you don't believe in global warming that's your prerogative, but why stand in the way of cleaner living?

What is the aversion to solar and cleaner energy when it can be practically applied? Why would it be a bad thing to have less plastic in the world? What's so wrong about preserving wild habitats? Why not have more fresh water?

What is it about these efforts that gets people so riled up? Why be against them? Why suggest these efforts are in vain in some way?

I also think it's a good idea to mention that climate and temperature are not the same thing. Because it is cold for a brief stretch of time (months, weeks, days, etc.) it does not mean the overall climate is not getting warmer.
And this is what you've been brainwashed into believing. Believing those that don't believe in the global warming grift are OK with burning heaps of used tires and dumping used oil down the culverts, to name a couple.

If you think for one minute solar and wind power are anymore friendly, and not actually worse, watch "The Planet of Humans" It was produced by Michael Moore (it's documentary not a made for Hollywood movie) who was once a global warming god, a crusader, until he had his eyes opened.
Just like what we see if anyone goes against any current batch of Liberal lies, he was labelled a racist, sexist, homophobic and bible thumping moron, or in other words, any words they could use, even if they didn't apply, to shut him up.

You mention preserving wildlife habitats but your side has no issue with completely razing forests, lopping off mountain tops, and ruining other habitats to put up solar and wind farms. Little hypocritical, don't you think?

Do you honestly believe CO2 is bad? Do you believe wind and solar, especially when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine, is going to sustain us?
Do you believe natural gas is bad? Do you believe Nuclear energy is bad?
What's the alternative? To cut down forests so people can keep warm and to cook their food? They will because it's instinctual.

Your last part is simply wrong. First and foremost the earth has actually cooled over the last decade, not warmed, and if you actually believe it has, why have the glaciers grew and not melted?
Do you honestly think this is the warmest the planet has ever been? Heard of the Medieval warming period that the alarmists would like removed from the history books?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1rj00BoItw

Curious, what do you suppose melted the glaciers before man was even on this planet? Could it be the warmth of the sun, the earth shifting on its axis or numerous other things, or do you believe, like someone else on here, that global warming is causing these record cold spells even though they said things like cold and snow worldwide would be a thing of the past over 30-40 yrs ago?

It's a grift, no 2 ways about it and many liars are getting filthy rich because of it, because they've brainwashed so many, through their lies, to buy in.
Have you ever noticed they, the alarmists, use words such as "could" and "might" when they're talking about the earth/planet getting warmer just like Bill Nye does here? "COULD" go up another 4 to 8 degrees. The man is insane and actually said he needs old people to die off in order to continue with the global warming narrative.
Why do you suppose he'd say something like that? People have been brainwashed into agreeing with him. If that is not insanity and a sign of what this movement is all about, then I don't know what is?
Here's The Planet of Humans. Watch it to the very end, including the credits, then get back to me and tell me how great this "green energy" movement is and how it is any greener than what we already have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE
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  #106  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:06 PM
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No, my last point is not wrong. Temperature and climate can be related and have correlations between the two, but they are not interchangeable. You can't point to this week's forecast to determine the climate isn't changing. That's not the relationship that exists between the two.

I don't think you've addressed anything I said. I didn't talk about Co2 so I can only guess as to why it's come up in response to my comments. The climate is not part of any political party so I don't know what you mean when you say "my side" is destroying forests. There is just a planet. It's the only planet we have to live on. I can't imagine why anyone would be against keeping it clean and in good condition.

Last edited by packs; 02-07-2023 at 02:25 PM.
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  #107  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:24 PM
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No, my last point is not wrong. Temperature and climate can be related and have correlations between the two, but they are not interchangeable. You can't point to this week's forecast to determine the climate isn't changing. That's not the relationship that exists between the two.

I don't think you've addressed anything I said. I didn't talk about Co2 so I can only guess as to why it's come up in response to my comments. The climate is not part of any political party so I don't know what you mean when you say "my side" is destroying rain forests. There is just a planet. It's the only planet we have to live on. I can't imagine why anyone would be against keeping it clean and in good condition.
And, there you go again with that non sense. I think any rational sane person wants those things too but they know they don't have to pay a carbon tax or any other financial penalty in order to achieve them. Did you watch the movie? (of course not) Are you afraid too? In it they discuss how things have improved greatly over the past decades. And no one paid a carbon tax for that to happen. See where I'm going with this? It's a lie, a grift, a scam, nothing more. The climate is cyclical, always has been always will be. Get that through your head. They are capitalizing on a lie.
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  #108  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:26 PM
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And, there you go again with that non sense. I think any rational sane person wants those things too but they know they don't have to pay a carbon tax or any other financial penalty in order to achieve them. Did you watch the movie? (of course not) Are you afraid too? In it they discuss how things have improved greatly over the past decades. And no one paid a carbon tax for that to happen. See where I'm going with this? It's a lie, a grift, a scam, nothing more. The climate is cyclical, always has been always will be. Get that through your head. They are capitalizing on a lie.
This isn't a tit for tat statement. It's a practical question for an individual. Whether or not you believe in global warming is unrelated to what I'm asking. Why would anyone be against something like renewable energy? Or more fresh water to drink? Or cleaner air?
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  #109  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:31 PM
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It’s actually very pleasant today, in the 70’s and sunny, but it’s going to rain Thursday and then return to normal lower temperatures.
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  #110  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:34 PM
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Great question. For those who are educated enough not to deny the existence of science, I believe there's a fair amount of "I'll be dead by the time my area becomes uninhabitable, so who cares?" The way things are going though, they might be wrong. Look what's already happening with water in the southwestern US.
And what's happening there? The massive amounts of irrigation that they are draining in order to water golf courses and to water crops that some morons thought would be a great idea to place in the desert?
I assume you're aware of those things because I can't see an educated man like yourself coming on here saying what you did without being educated on the subject, but then again, I could be wrong?
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  #111  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:36 PM
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I don't know what article you're referencing but the articles I've read that detail Phoenix's water issues are centered around overdevelopment in areas that developers knew were water poor. That's not so much a climate issue as a man-made one. But I think it speaks to the point that something thought to be naturally occurring is not.
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  #112  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:40 PM
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This isn't a tit for tat statement. It's a practical question for an individual. Whether or not you believe in global warming is unrelated to what I'm asking. Why would anyone be against something like renewable energy? Or more fresh water to drink? Or cleaner air?
Are you obtuse or something?
Because, like what I thought I made clear, your renewable energy narrative is nothing but a scam and is actually more harmful than it is good.
Are you OK with them razing forests, ruining habitats, just to burn in co-gen stations that claim they are "green renewable energy" sources?

You and me, whether you want to believe that or not, are basically after the same things, but your refusal to educate yourself with what you have been brainwashed with is getting tiring.
Watch the movie. It might be tough for you to admit you've been lied to and fooled but I've always believed it is better to be slapped with the truth than it is to be kissed with a lie.
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  #113  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:42 PM
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Are you obtuse or something?
Because, like what I thought I made clear, your renewable energy narrative is nothing but a scam and is actually more harmful than it is good.
Are you OK with them razing forests, ruining habitats, just to burn in co-gen stations that claim they are "green renewable energy" sources?

You and me, whether you want to believe that or not, are basically after the same things, but your refusal to educate yourself with what you have been brainwashed with is getting tiring.
Watch the movie. It might be tough for you to admit you've been lied to and fooled but I've always believed it is better to be slapped with the truth than it is to be kissed with a lie.

Renewable energy isn't a scam. It exists and can exist in larger formats if developed further. You keep saying things like "are you ok with razing a forest for renewable energy?"

What does one have to do with the other? Are you suggesting there is no other way to develop renewable energy?

Last edited by packs; 02-07-2023 at 02:44 PM.
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  #114  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:48 PM
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Renewable energy isn't a scam. It exists and can exist in larger formats if developed further. You keep saying things like "are you ok with razing a forest for renewable energy?"

What does one have to do with the other? Are you suggesting there is no other way to develop renewable energy?
Good god, man. At least do yourself a favor and watch the movie. Renewable energy is nothing like you think it is. You've been brainwashed into believing something that simply isn't true nor better for the planet.
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  #115  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:51 PM
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Renewable energy has a clear definition: renewable energy is energy derived from natural sources that are replenished at a higher rate than they are consumed.

Last edited by packs; 02-07-2023 at 05:48 PM.
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  #116  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:56 PM
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As I type this, I am already regretting it, because I realize there is never a rational discussion of anything that has been politicized. But, on a micro level, I can tell you that when I bought my house 12 years ago, I had a high energy bill. So, I paid to have solar panels installed on my house. They are still pumping out about 900 KwH of energy each month and to my knowledge do not put any added stress on the environment. We also bought two Teslas, not for energy reasons - just because they are fun to drive and the X was a business tax write-off, and have not had to rely on gas for the past four years and that should continue for several years. So, again, on a micro level, I like to think that we have decreased the world's reliance on energy sources that could be harmful long term to the planet - maybe I am wrong. I also like to speculate that if everybody in a sunny climate did the same thing, it would have a more meaningful effect.

I believe there are plenty of profiteers and and a multitude of politicians that have used the environment solely for personal gain (on both sides of the aisle). But, on a basic academic consideration of the topic, it seems hard to argue that renewable energy sources do exist and could help decrease the reliance on non-renewable energy sources.
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  #117  
Old 02-07-2023, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I don't know what article you're referencing but the articles I've read that detail Phoenix's water issues are centered around overdevelopment in areas that developers knew were water poor. That's not so much a climate issue as a man-made one. But I think it speaks to the point that something thought to be naturally occurring is not.
Overdevelopment and the climate crisis are intersecting issues in many places
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  #118  
Old 02-09-2023, 09:31 AM
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If you can find one single thing that someone isn't making money off of that would be news.

Well then send the press to my place I have a houseful of stuff nobody is making any money on.
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  #119  
Old 02-09-2023, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Smarti5051 View Post
As I type this, I am already regretting it, because I realize there is never a rational discussion of anything that has been politicized. But, on a micro level, I can tell you that when I bought my house 12 years ago, I had a high energy bill. So, I paid to have solar panels installed on my house. They are still pumping out about 900 KwH of energy each month and to my knowledge do not put any added stress on the environment. We also bought two Teslas, not for energy reasons - just because they are fun to drive and the X was a business tax write-off, and have not had to rely on gas for the past four years and that should continue for several years. So, again, on a micro level, I like to think that we have decreased the world's reliance on energy sources that could be harmful long term to the planet - maybe I am wrong. I also like to speculate that if everybody in a sunny climate did the same thing, it would have a more meaningful effect.

I believe there are plenty of profiteers and and a multitude of politicians that have used the environment solely for personal gain (on both sides of the aisle). But, on a basic academic consideration of the topic, it seems hard to argue that renewable energy sources do exist and could help decrease the reliance on non-renewable energy sources.
This sounds great. Turning sunlight into electricity is a great concept, especially when you can also use that electricity as a substitute for gasoline. If I lived in a sunny state and had the dough, I'd love to do what you're doing.

The problems, as I see it, lie in the politicalization of it. First, the lies (like, CO2, which comprises less than 1/2 of 1/10th of one percent of the atmosphere is "too much.") and second, the hypocrisy. The batteries in your Teslas require lithium, nickel, and copper among other elements. These need to be mined. Here in Minnesota, Twin Metals has been trying for more than a decade to open a mine to extract proven reserves of nickel and copper. Like the Keystone pipeline project, when conservatives are in power the process moves forward. When liberals gain power, they shut it down.

And that's the hypocrisy. The people who proclaim and mandate a nationwide transition to electric vehicles too often shut down efforts to obtain the necessary raw materials. Meanwhile, there are environmental concerns about discarding used solar panels and batteries.

On the micro level, solar looks like "clean" energy. On the macro level, not so much. Concerns about mining, disposing of waste, ramping up power plants to handle more EV demand, etc. reveal the whole "clean energy" movement to be, well, not so clean after all.
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  #120  
Old 02-09-2023, 01:10 PM
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I feel like you're making definitive statements about technology that is still being developed. While they were developing gasoline and infrastructure for cities, they used lead in fuel and piping. Later on we found out that lead blunted the IQ of almost half the US population and we phased it out of the manufacturing process.

Solar technology, renewable fuels, and other alternative power sources are all in their development stages. I feel like it's a mistake to assume manufacturing issues can't be resolved or that there are definitively no alternatives to the same process.
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  #121  
Old 02-09-2023, 01:12 PM
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Well then send the press to my place I have a houseful of stuff nobody is making any money on.
You are just not using the proper technique when selling those fine pieces of merchandise.
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  #122  
Old 02-09-2023, 01:47 PM
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I feel like you're making definitive statements about technology that is still being developed. While they were developing gasoline and infrastructure for cities, they used lead in fuel and piping. Later on we found out that lead blunted the IQ of almost half the US population and we phased it out of the manufacturing process.

Solar technology, renewable fuels, and other alternative power sources are all in their development stages. I feel like it's a mistake to assume manufacturing issues can't be resolved or that there are definitively no alternatives to the same process.
I agree. The main thing I'm saying is, the people who claim to want technological advances need to quit their hypocrisy and get out of the way. If we need lithium, copper and nickel, then allow us to mine it. If the power grid needs to be ramped up to support more EVs, then build nuclear power plants. Or natural gas power plants. Too many politicians have one foot on the gas pedal and the other on the brake.

In time, improvements in technology, including clean mining and clean, efficient disposal of used solar panels and batteries, will happen.
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  #123  
Old 02-10-2023, 08:04 AM
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This sounds great. Turning sunlight into electricity is a great concept, especially when you can also use that electricity as a substitute for gasoline. If I lived in a sunny state and had the dough, I'd love to do what you're doing.

The problems, as I see it, lie in the politicalization of it. First, the lies (like, CO2, which comprises less than 1/2 of 1/10th of one percent of the atmosphere is "too much.") and second, the hypocrisy. The batteries in your Teslas require lithium, nickel, and copper among other elements. These need to be mined. Here in Minnesota, Twin Metals has been trying for more than a decade to open a mine to extract proven reserves of nickel and copper. Like the Keystone pipeline project, when conservatives are in power the process moves forward. When liberals gain power, they shut it down.

And that's the hypocrisy. The people who proclaim and mandate a nationwide transition to electric vehicles too often shut down efforts to obtain the necessary raw materials. Meanwhile, there are environmental concerns about discarding used solar panels and batteries.

On the micro level, solar looks like "clean" energy. On the macro level, not so much. Concerns about mining, disposing of waste, ramping up power plants to handle more EV demand, etc. reveal the whole "clean energy" movement to be, well, not so clean after all.
And, that would also look hypocritical with all the big diesel/gas powered equipment and machinery they would need to mine/extract those things, never mind the costs in the billions.
No, currently, because it is so much cheaper, they use child labor in far away countries paying children a dollar a day, if that, to mine those elements for them, but of course, rarely, there is no funded media coverage of it as they want to keep those facts and the real truth away from those that believe green energy, every bit of it, is green and friendly from top to bottom.

Just like the movie shows, they never talk nor show you those things that they expose. I wonder how many know how many times they tried to delete/remove this movie?
I wonder how many know, since they couldn't have it removed, that the Liberal funded Youtube had an age restriction setting placed on it to help keep the viewing numbers down for those that didn't belong to youtube nor wanted to nor knew how to sign in?
Numerous vids that were once up showing these children down in totally unsafe pits in the worst possible working conditions have now been removed. I wonder why they don't want people seeing those or knowing the real story behind the ev, solar and wind movement???
Our Liberal govt's know this but why don't they speak of these things and go out of their way to keep it quiet???
The U.S. Department of Labor estimates that at least 25,000 children are working in cobalt mines in the DRC, a number that is sure to grow as the production of climate-friendly electric cars expands.

Cobalt mines – child labour in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Cobalt is a critical component in rechargeable car batteries and is indispensable for the transition from fossil fuels to sustainable energy sources.Jun 17, 2022
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo...ergy%20sources.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-po...l-scale-mining
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...-mining-deaths
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...greener-future
https://www.ft.com/content/c6909812-...6-a4640c9feebb
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...siddharth-kara

Green energy, Yeah, way way better than what we currently have.
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  #124  
Old 02-10-2023, 08:27 AM
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And, that would also look hypocritical with all the big diesel/gas powered equipment and machinery they would need to mine/extract those things, never mind the costs in the billions.
No, currently, because it is so much cheaper, they use child labor in far away countries paying children a dollar a day, if that, to mine those elements for them, but of course, rarely, there is no funded media coverage of it as they want to keep those facts and the real truth away from those that believe green energy, every bit of it, is green and friendly from top to bottom.

Just like the movie shows, they never talk nor show you those things that they expose. I wonder how many know how many times they tried to delete/remove this movie?
I wonder how many know, since they couldn't have it removed, that the Liberal funded Youtube had an age restriction setting placed on it to help keep the viewing numbers down for those that didn't belong to youtube nor wanted to nor knew how to sign in?
Numerous vids that were once up showing these children down in totally unsafe pits in the worst possible working conditions have now been removed. I wonder why they don't want people seeing those or knowing the real story behind the ev, solar and wind movement???
Our Liberal govt's know this but why don't they speak of these things and go out of their way to keep it quiet???
The U.S. Department of Labor estimates that at least 25,000 children are working in cobalt mines in the DRC, a number that is sure to grow as the production of climate-friendly electric cars expands.

Cobalt mines – child labour in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Cobalt is a critical component in rechargeable car batteries and is indispensable for the transition from fossil fuels to sustainable energy sources.Jun 17, 2022
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo...ergy%20sources.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-po...l-scale-mining
https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...-mining-deaths
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...greener-future
https://www.ft.com/content/c6909812-...6-a4640c9feebb
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...siddharth-kara

Green energy, Yeah, way way better than what we currently have.
Seriously, without those high paying jobs those kids and their families would go hungry. Good for them for doing what they can to improve their lives.
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Old 02-10-2023, 08:56 AM
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Seriously, without those high paying jobs those kids and their families would go hungry. Good for them for doing what they can to improve their lives.
Seriously?
I hope you're kidding, Ben, but my gut tells me different.
Child labor, as you know, or ought to know, is illegal in most countries around the world, including here North America so tell me why our govt's turn a blind eye to that fact and are OK with it but try to keep that fact hidden from the likes of people like you?

You OK with children dying just so they can pad the pockets of elites of this world who preach how friendly and joyful green energy is?

You have to be one of the most ignorant, dumbest persons I have ever encountered anywhere, seriously.

International Rights Advocates brought the case on behalf of 14 Congolese families whose children were killed or injured while mining for cobalt. The metal is key ingredient in the rechargeable lithium-ion batteries that power most electronic devices.Dec 17, 2019
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...onic%20devices.

“Our children are dying like dogs.”

That is the sorrowful statement of one Congolese mother whose son and cousin died while working the cobalt mines in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/5/...an-rights-dell
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  #126  
Old 02-10-2023, 09:18 AM
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Seriously?
I hope you're kidding, Ben, but my gut tells me different.
Child labor, as you know, or ought to know, is illegal in most countries around the world, including here North America so tell me why our govt's turn a blind eye to that fact and are OK with it but try to keep that fact hidden from the likes of people like you?

You OK with children dying just so they can pad the pockets of elites of this world who preach how friendly and joyful green energy is?

You have to be one of the most ignorant, dumbest persons I have ever encountered anywhere, seriously.

International Rights Advocates brought the case on behalf of 14 Congolese families whose children were killed or injured while mining for cobalt. The metal is key ingredient in the rechargeable lithium-ion batteries that power most electronic devices.Dec 17, 2019
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens...onic%20devices.

“Our children are dying like dogs.”

That is the sorrowful statement of one Congolese mother whose son and cousin died while working the cobalt mines in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/5/...an-rights-dell
Every place is different on what is right and wrong. Are you one of those one world government people so we all have to live the same way and follow the same rules?

Last edited by bnorth; 02-10-2023 at 09:19 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-10-2023, 09:39 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. It seems like the issue you’re raising is with DRC labor laws more so than with the idea of renewable energy.

Last edited by packs; 02-10-2023 at 04:11 PM.
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  #128  
Old 02-10-2023, 10:36 AM
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You are just not using the proper technique when selling those fine pieces of merchandise.
If I could only get past Michael Moore being a lying greedy turd I could have him do a documentary about my "fantastic hoard of super valuable junk" and I'd be set for life.
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  #129  
Old 02-11-2023, 08:38 AM
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If I could only get past Michael Moore being a lying greedy turd I could have him do a documentary about my "fantastic hoard of super valuable junk" and I'd be set for life.
I'm not a big fan either but I do give him credit for at least looking into what he was told and making the documentary instead of just brushing it off, ignoring the facts.
Most, because they've been lied to and brainwashed so bad don't even want to take the time to listen to anyone else's view or opinion.
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  #130  
Old 02-16-2023, 11:03 AM
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I thought this was an interesting way of looking at climate change that I had never considered. From an article in The New Atlantis, Environmentalism as Religion by Joel Garreau:

For some individuals and societies, the role of religion seems increasingly to be filled by environmentalism. It has become “the religion of choice for urban atheists,” according to Michael Crichton, the late science fiction writer (and climate change skeptic). In a widely quoted 2003 speech, Crichton outlined the ways that environmentalism “remaps” Judeo-Christian beliefs:

"There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe."
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  #131  
Old 02-16-2023, 11:06 AM
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I thought this was an interesting way of looking at climate change that I had never considered. From an article in The New Atlantis, Environmentalism as Religion by Joel Garreau:

For some individuals and societies, the role of religion seems increasingly to be filled by environmentalism. It has become “the religion of choice for urban atheists,” according to Michael Crichton, the late science fiction writer (and climate change skeptic). In a widely quoted 2003 speech, Crichton outlined the ways that environmentalism “remaps” Judeo-Christian beliefs:

"There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe."
Bingo!
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  #132  
Old 02-16-2023, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
I thought this was an interesting way of looking at climate change that I had never considered. From an article in The New Atlantis, Environmentalism as Religion by Joel Garreau:

For some individuals and societies, the role of religion seems increasingly to be filled by environmentalism. It has become “the religion of choice for urban atheists,” according to Michael Crichton, the late science fiction writer (and climate change skeptic). In a widely quoted 2003 speech, Crichton outlined the ways that environmentalism “remaps” Judeo-Christian beliefs:

"There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe."
Religious fundamentalists can look at anything and say "_____ has replaced religion today." Whatever it takes to try and feel less bewildered about the fact that not everyone is like them.
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  #133  
Old 02-16-2023, 11:35 AM
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Religious fundamentalists can look at anything and say "_____ has replaced religion today." Whatever it takes to try and feel less bewildered about the fact that not everyone is like them.
You wouldn’t happen to be an urban atheist, would you?
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  #134  
Old 02-18-2023, 12:30 PM
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With February half over and the forecast for the next two weeks in the mid 50’s I can say I’ve never experienced a milder winter in Texas. December brought two days of single digits and after nothing below freezing all winter. This is the main reason I moved from Buffalo. Look at the winter they had.
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  #135  
Old 02-18-2023, 12:38 PM
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No, my last point is not wrong. Temperature and climate can be related and have correlations between the two, but they are not interchangeable. You can't point to this week's forecast to determine the climate isn't changing. That's not the relationship that exists between the two.

I don't think you've addressed anything I said. I didn't talk about Co2 so I can only guess as to why it's come up in response to my comments. The climate is not part of any political party so I don't know what you mean when you say "my side" is destroying forests. There is just a planet. It's the only planet we have to live on. I can't imagine why anyone would be against keeping it clean and in good condition.
I’m not going to debate this but as the United States tries to ban gas stoves China is building a new coal plant every 3 months using 70’s technology.
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  #136  
Old 02-18-2023, 01:52 PM
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I’m not going to debate this but as the United States tries to ban gas stoves China is building a new coal plant every 3 months using 70’s technology.
They couldn’t care less what China does. They don’t hate China, just the opposite, they hate the people who voted for the Orange Meanie.
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  #137  
Old 02-19-2023, 08:57 AM
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Still no snow on long island and this weather been mild temperatures (this weekend slightly cold) but feels like early spring most of February
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  #138  
Old 02-19-2023, 09:37 AM
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I’m not going to debate this but as the United States tries to ban gas stoves China is building a new coal plant every 3 months using 70’s technology.

I'm really trying to bite my tongue and stay out of these ridiculous threads...but do you actually think they're trying to ban gas stoves?

We are doomed!

P.S. No need to debate anything. Let's not waste each others time.
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  #139  
Old 02-19-2023, 09:54 AM
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I'm really trying to bite my tongue and stay out of these ridiculous threads...but do you actually think they're trying to ban gas stoves?

We are doomed!

P.S. No need to debate anything. Let's not waste each others time.
Well, I haven't followed it, tbh, but I know at least one is trying to do exactly that.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...till-uses-one/
I really wish I knew how someone like this, and both sides have them, how they get into power?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfrUWwPLT48
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  #140  
Old 02-19-2023, 10:20 AM
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Well, I haven't followed it, tbh, but I know at least one is trying to do exactly that.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...till-uses-one/
I really wish I knew how someone like this, and both sides have them, how they get into power?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfrUWwPLT48

Let me reiterate, nobody is trying to ban gas stoves...not even the boogeyman that's referenced in the shittily constructed article you linked.

You can declare that exposure to natural gas causes cognitive disfunction (doesn't seem to be a controversial statement, because exposure to natural gas can also KILL you), and still have natural gas appliances without the howls of "hypocrisy" raining down upon you.

I have a gas stove. I have a propane heater in the greenhouse connected to our house. I am aware of the dangers of those appliances. I also like the convenience of those appliances. I live in a blue state, and have zero fear of anybody coming for my appliances. If they do...I promise you I'll kick up a fuss and publicly declare on social media to lay down my life for my gas stove, as other over-dramatic personalities are claiming to do.

You can also admit that guns kill people, while also owning guns. It's allowed you know.
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  #141  
Old 02-19-2023, 10:34 AM
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Let me reiterate, nobody is trying to ban gas stoves...not even the boogeyman that's referenced in the shittily constructed article you linked.

You can declare that exposure to natural gas causes cognitive disfunction (doesn't seem to be a controversial statement, because exposure to natural gas can also KILL you), and still have natural gas appliances without the howls of "hypocrisy" raining down upon you.

I have a gas stove. I have a propane heater in the greenhouse connected to our house. I am aware of the dangers of those appliances. I also like the convenience of those appliances. I live in a blue state, and have zero fear of anybody coming for my appliances. If they do...I promise you I'll kick up a fuss and publicly declare on social media to lay down my life for my gas stove, as other over-dramatic personalities are claiming to do.

You can also admit that guns kill people, while also owning guns. It's allowed you know.
Well, like I said, I haven't been following along but to say it wasn't/hasn't been talked about is also false.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/11/polit...ves/index.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...;sref=svjzpYTg
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  #142  
Old 02-19-2023, 11:01 AM
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Well, like I said, I haven't been following along but to say it wasn't/hasn't been talked about is also false.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/11/polit...ves/index.html
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...;sref=svjzpYTg
It was "talked about". That's the goal post now?

Please name one topic that hasn't been "talked about".

One guy, on one committee somewhere, talked about regulating safety features on certain appliances and somehow it becomes a rallying cry of outrage for triggered, pearl-clutching snowflakes everywhere.

See what I did there?

Granted, I think the "outrage" was mostly faux outrage for specifically performative and political purposes. Sadly, it's done it's job, and now I have to read from people who are somehow legitimately outraged, and declaring as a statement of fact that the government is gearing up to come for their stoves.

FYI, the supposed left leaning "Bloomberg", invests heavily in Natural Gas Futures...so it's no surprise they blew that whole "stove ban" bullshit out of proportion back in early January, which has since been given much more context.
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  #143  
Old 02-19-2023, 11:06 AM
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The most important thing with Natural Gas appliances is that it's vented properly. The biggest problem with indoor pollution regarding natural gas is when a gas stove is put in an area (say a housing/apartment complex), with no access to outdoor ventilation.
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  #144  
Old 02-21-2023, 07:03 AM
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We have snow today, a blizzard tomorrow, and a high of -1 on Thursday with a balmy -21 predicted for Friday morning. The snow is predicted to be around 1 1/2 to two foot total.
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  #145  
Old 02-21-2023, 10:13 AM
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Ben---you should huddle up next to a gas stove
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  #146  
Old 02-21-2023, 11:05 AM
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Ben---you should huddle up next to a gas stove
When we lived on the farm we had to use a gas stove to heat the house when winter storms took out the power. Could that explain some things, maybe.

In town we are all electric. Do have a generator just in case.
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Old 02-22-2023, 11:24 AM
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Blizzard warning in Los Angeles this week- it's been the coldest and wettest January/February as far as I can recall, at least since the late '60's. Had to close all the windows in the house for the first time in years.
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Old 02-22-2023, 01:37 PM
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What is a blizzard in LA Anthony, a very hard cold rain ?
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  #149  
Old 02-22-2023, 02:43 PM
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What is a blizzard in LA Anthony, a very hard cold rain ?
It happens right after a big meth lab explodes.
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  #150  
Old 02-22-2023, 04:34 PM
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What is a blizzard in LA Anthony, a very hard cold rain ?
Same as it is in San Antonio Al!


I read the snow level here is down to 1400' tonite and they are expecting snow in Malibu. And not the usual peruvian kind.
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