NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-28-2023, 08:17 PM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,405
Default When a 1/1 isn't really a 1/1

So, apparently Topps has released multiple copies of several cards that were supposed to be 1/1. I realize most of us, myself included, don't collect modern. For those of you that are into that segment of the hobby, how upset does this make you? Are you furious or is this just the latest "scandal" to hit the news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw9U0AJEUKA
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (132/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (189/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-28-2023, 10:08 PM
Casey2296's Avatar
Casey2296 Casey2296 is online now
Is Mudville so bad?
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: West Coast
Posts: 4,598
Default

The reason I don't collect modern, manufactured 1/1s vs organic 1/1s. I trust the organic process more than I would ever trust a profit driven motive.
__________________
Phil Lewis


https://www.flickr.com/photos/183872512@N04/
-
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-28-2023, 10:36 PM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,865
Default

I don't care. Panini and Topps have had problems for years trying to fulfill Redemption cards. In 2020/21 they were double printing Topps NOW parallels. Topps has been in my lifetime one of the least innovative companies. Now Fanatics has monopolized the industry. They are deaf to complaints because they are the only game in town.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-28-2023, 11:41 PM
mrmopar mrmopar is offline
Curt
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,573
Default

I know this is not what you meant and these are actually 1/1 cards, each with that printed on them. However, given the fact there are 99 different cards for Garvey (I think print runs varied by player), each with a different stat in the silver banner under the relic swatch, this is pushing the boundaries of a 1/1 definition and is what killed my interest in 1/1 cards.

This example could be used in comparison to say a card serial numbered to 100 is actually 100 different 1/1 cards since each card has a unique serial number no other version has. The only difference is a foil serial number. in this case, the only difference is a sentence on the front.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 320423-5d98fdb5c8d21264e547f7f80817f4f9.jpg (8.3 KB, 206 views)
__________________
Looking for: Unique Steve Garvey items, select Dodgers Postcards & Team Issue photos

Last edited by mrmopar; 09-28-2023 at 11:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-29-2023, 12:54 AM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,208
Default

It's bad and something should be done to address it for the people holding a not 1/1, but I'm not horribly upset or anything. It doesn't seem to be a sleazy tactic, but a simple human screwup this year as Topps is going through a lot of internal changes. Topps usually does what it advertises.

What gets me is when it looks like there is corruption, malice, or intended sleaze. Usually it's Panini offending there. Topps has had some much larger problems than this though. Like that Star Wars set where the 4 biggest hits weren't actually packed out and were held back or backdoored.

The Fanatics version of Topps is doing some dumb meme crap that's worse than an error. I don't like like Taco Bell commercials on rare hits and cards with negative serial numbers and fake Babe Ruth first Bowmans. Gimmick absurdity.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-29-2023, 07:34 AM
gunboat82 gunboat82 is offline
Mike Henry
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 128
Default

Manufactured scarcity turned me off of modern cards. My first taste of cynicism was the 1996 Leaf Signature Series, where they released the same exact cards with bronze, silver, and gold embossed logos with increasingly lower print runs. I was at an age where I was thrilled to get any player's autograph, but I found it incredibly stupid that there was no difference between the images and the signatures that would make a gold card more desirable than a bronze.

Now it's grass background, cosmic background, rainbow in paper, rainbow in Chrome, wavefractors, shimmerfractors, sparkefractors... even tacofractors. It's mentally and visually exhausting.

But more to your point, my opinion of the industry finally hit absolute rock-bottom last year, when I read a thread about how Topps kindly replaced someone's 1/1 by simply printing up a new one.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-29-2023, 08:46 AM
todeen's Avatar
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunboat82 View Post
Manufactured scarcity turned me off of modern cards. My first taste of cynicism was the 1996 Leaf Signature Series, where they released the same exact cards with bronze, silver, and gold embossed logos with increasingly lower print runs. I was at an age where I was thrilled to get any player's autograph, but I found it incredibly stupid that there was no difference between the images and the signatures that would make a gold card more desirable than a bronze.



Now it's grass background, cosmic background, rainbow in paper, rainbow in Chrome, wavefractors, shimmerfractors, sparkefractors... even tacofractors. It's mentally and visually exhausting.



But more to your point, my opinion of the industry finally hit absolute rock-bottom last year, when I read a thread about how Topps kindly replaced someone's 1/1 by simply printing up a new one.
I'm with you. Why can't they change the image? It's not like they don't have a mountain of photographs at their fingertips. I've never chased a rainbow.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk
__________________
Barry Larkin, Joey Votto, Tris Speaker, 1930-45 Cincinnati Reds, T206 Cincinnati
Successful deals with: Banksfan14, Brianp-beme, Bumpus Jones, Dacubfan (x5), Dstrawberryfan39, Ed_Hutchinson, Fballguy, fusorcruiser (x2), GoCalBears, Gorditadog, Luke, MikeKam, Moosedog, Nineunder71, Powdered H20, PSU, Ronniehatesjazz, Roarfrom34, Sebie43, Seven, and Wondo
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-29-2023, 09:55 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,257
Default

I really don't understand why there's all this hate about "manufactured rarity". I collect records. There's the standard store bought version, then there are tour versions and colored vinyl versions and alternate covers and all kinds of different variations of the same thing, all collectible in their own way.

Is there anything different about a colored vinyl version of a record and a refractor card?

Last edited by packs; 09-29-2023 at 09:57 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-29-2023, 11:29 AM
butchie_t butchie_t is offline
β∪τ∁ℏ †∪RΩεΓ
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,196
Default

It is nonsense such as this example that makes my decision to stop collecting sets at 2000 a very wise decision on my part.

So sad what has become of this hobby. Strike that, things like this make it not a hobby.

I'll stick to the Hobby Years of this hobby.
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.”
U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885

Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets.

Senators and Frank Howard fan.

I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-29-2023, 03:35 PM
gunboat82 gunboat82 is offline
Mike Henry
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
I really don't understand why there's all this hate about "manufactured rarity". I collect records. There's the standard store bought version, then there are tour versions and colored vinyl versions and alternate covers and all kinds of different variations of the same thing, all collectible in their own way.

Is there anything different about a colored vinyl version of a record and a refractor card?
For me, the overproduction of sets (and manufactured rarity within each set) is a turnoff because it makes it practically and financially difficult to collect even the base cards of a favorite player(s). If you happen to be a completionist with an unhealthy compulsion to chase rainbows, forget it. The only winning move is not to play.

I'm also disappointed that we've moved from a "junk wax" era of overproducing everything to a "junk rainbow" era of giving the appearance of limited production by playing with the color palette and releasing countless subsets. Last year, we had Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Bowman Chrome Sapphire, Bowman Draft, Bowman Draft 1st Edition, Bowman Draft Sapphire, Bowman Chrome X, Bowman Platinum, Bowman Sterling. And that's before we even get to plain ol' Topps, with regular, Chrome (Platinum, Cosmic, Black, Logofractor, Sapphire, Ben Baller), Inception, Heritage, Archives, Gold Label, Gallery, Gilded, Museum, Opening Day, Rip, Ginter (regular, Chrome, X), etc. etc. etc.

I've seen numerous Facebook group discussions lately about which colored chrome parallels are worth chasing (1st Bowman and RCs only, of course). These conversations are never about what's visually appealing, but rather about what will hold value for resale. The consensus seems to be that the "original" refractors like red and gold will hold their value, but it's best to flip the aqua-lava-shimmer-tacofractors soon after release to leave less savvy investors holding the bag.

It takes all the fun away when it's less about the artistry and more about finding the next mark. I understand that this is all inevitable whenever there's demand and the perception of scarcity, but modern collecting gives me Wolf of Wall Street vibes that make me feel dirty. Earlier this year, a breaker lit a Niko Goodrum 1/1 on fire for a customer who was upset that it wasn't a bigger name. At that point, it's no longer about sports collectibles at all; it's pure degenerate gambling. And the card companies fuel it by pricing their products so that third-party breakers are the only entry point for many, turning the hobby into an expensive raffle.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-29-2023, 03:44 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,257
Default

I think nearly everyone is going to find base packs boring. The only exciting thing about, say a pack of 1963 Topps, is that it MIGHT have a card of someone good in good condition. But no one is going to find the same thrill in a pack of 2023 Topps full of a base cards.

Modern cards have such a huge audience because they’re exciting to open.

To bring things back to a pre-war perspective what would be more exciting to open? A pack of Piedmont or a pack of Uzit?

Last edited by packs; 09-29-2023 at 04:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-30-2023, 04:05 PM
deweyinthehall deweyinthehall is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ellicott City, MD
Posts: 599
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunboat82 View Post
For me, the overproduction of sets (and manufactured rarity within each set) is a turnoff because it makes it practically and financially difficult to collect even the base cards of a favorite player(s). If you happen to be a completionist with an unhealthy compulsion to chase rainbows, forget it. The only winning move is not to play.

I'm also disappointed that we've moved from a "junk wax" era of overproducing everything to a "junk rainbow" era of giving the appearance of limited production by playing with the color palette and releasing countless subsets. Last year, we had Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Bowman Chrome Sapphire, Bowman Draft, Bowman Draft 1st Edition, Bowman Draft Sapphire, Bowman Chrome X, Bowman Platinum, Bowman Sterling. And that's before we even get to plain ol' Topps, with regular, Chrome (Platinum, Cosmic, Black, Logofractor, Sapphire, Ben Baller), Inception, Heritage, Archives, Gold Label, Gallery, Gilded, Museum, Opening Day, Rip, Ginter (regular, Chrome, X), etc. etc. etc.

I've seen numerous Facebook group discussions lately about which colored chrome parallels are worth chasing (1st Bowman and RCs only, of course). These conversations are never about what's visually appealing, but rather about what will hold value for resale. The consensus seems to be that the "original" refractors like red and gold will hold their value, but it's best to flip the aqua-lava-shimmer-tacofractors soon after release to leave less savvy investors holding the bag.

It takes all the fun away when it's less about the artistry and more about finding the next mark. I understand that this is all inevitable whenever there's demand and the perception of scarcity, but modern collecting gives me Wolf of Wall Street vibes that make me feel dirty. Earlier this year, a breaker lit a Niko Goodrum 1/1 on fire for a customer who was upset that it wasn't a bigger name. At that point, it's no longer about sports collectibles at all; it's pure degenerate gambling. And the card companies fuel it by pricing their products so that third-party breakers are the only entry point for many, turning the hobby into an expensive raffle.
Gambling is right - given we've normalized vice, how long before Fan Duel, Draft Kings or someone else cross-promotes with cards to really make things seedy? If the leagues all love gambling, which they obviously do, it can only be a matter of time.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-30-2023, 04:32 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is online now
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,893
Default

Well, Fanatics is trying to do something. Basically the first person with one of the duplicated superfractors gets to get a big payday so they can take it off the market.

One sold on eBay for $1500 and can be redeemed for $25K.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-30-2023, 10:03 PM
Casey2296's Avatar
Casey2296 Casey2296 is online now
Is Mudville so bad?
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: West Coast
Posts: 4,598
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deweyinthehall View Post
Gambling is right - given we've normalized vice, how long before Fan Duel, Draft Kings or someone else cross-promotes with cards to really make things seedy? If the leagues all love gambling, which they obviously do, it can only be a matter of time.
+1 it's a reflection on the slow breakdown of "society" where honest hardworking decent folks are marginalized and the "hustle" is embraced.
__________________
Phil Lewis


https://www.flickr.com/photos/183872512@N04/
-
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-01-2023, 11:44 AM
gonefishin gonefishin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2022
Posts: 632
Default

I'm not currently a big collector of modern cards, nor a big collector of pre-WWII cards. I mainly collect cards from the 50s and 60s. There was a day when I bought several cards and packs from the mid-90s through let's say 2015 or so. With all that said, I think what is happening with the manufactured 1/1's is comparable with what happened to game used.

When game used came out, it was all the craze. Collectors were paying big bucks for anything game used. I could be wrong, but one of the biggest at that time was Upper Deck - they literally owned the market in game used cards at the beginning. It was new, different, etc. Of course, everyone started mass producing game used cards. It went from bats, to uniform pieces, etc., and eventually involved into game used dirt and grass - how silly is that! The market for game used started tanking, and game used pieces that were worth hundreds were now worth pennies.

Could this be the way of the 1/1's? It very well could be. However, all the major players marketing/sales teams are always thinking and planning. What is the next big thing to entice buyers? A golfing day with Tiger? A lunch with Mahomes? Etc., etc., etc.

Most of the player cards I collect, the players are deceased. The likely hood of them being arrested for domestic abuse, gambling, drug use and so on are over. Rarely, has the market value of their card decreased over time. Unless you drastically overpaid for a card (which I'm guilty of), the value of the card has not decreased.

If your buying a current players card today because you enjoy the card, player, etc., that's a good thing as money isn't the issue. If your investing and spend $1,000+ for a 1/1 prospect hoping to make an easy fortune - good luck with that.

For all the reason's stated in this thread, 1/1's are spiraling down and soon will loose their allure. Then it's on to the next "Great Thing".
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-01-2023, 08:26 PM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Well, Fanatics is trying to do something. Basically the first person with one of the duplicated superfractors gets to get a big payday so they can take it off the market.

One sold on eBay for $1500 and can be redeemed for $25K.
Plot twist:

The seller of that card had the package "intercepted" by the carrier. The card is on its way back to the seller, who has apparently "ghosted" the buyer.

The buyer, of course, is posting on social media about his "property" and telling people he offered to split the proceeds of the $25,000 payday.

Boy oh boy, the content creators are churning out videos and people are chirping away in the comment sections...

...

Ain't the modern side of card collecting grand?

I'm so glad I don't collect lottery tickets modern cards.
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (132/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (189/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-01-2023, 08:29 PM
Eric72's Avatar
Eric72 Eric72 is offline
Eric Perry
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Philadelphia Suburbs
Posts: 3,405
Default

Just to be clear, I wasn't aiming anything at John. I was just illuminating the idiocy involved in this Superfractor situation...for the enjoyment of all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
Plot twist:

The seller of that card had the package "intercepted" by the carrier. The card is on its way back to the seller, who has apparently "ghosted" the buyer.

The buyer, of course, is posting on social media about his "property" and telling people he offered to split the proceeds of the $25,000 payday.

Boy oh boy, the content creators are churning out videos and people are chirping away in the comment sections...

...

Ain't the modern side of card collecting grand?

I'm so glad I don't collect lottery tickets modern cards.
__________________
Eric Perry

Currently collecting:
T206 (132/524)
1956 Topps Baseball (189/342)

"You can observe a lot by just watching."
- Yogi Berra
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-02-2023, 10:47 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,046
Default

Lottery tickets you say?
Thats actually a thing.

https://www.lovetoknow.com/home/anti...ectors-society
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-02-2023, 05:50 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is online now
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 6,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric72 View Post
Just to be clear, I wasn't aiming anything at John. I was just illuminating the idiocy involved in this Superfractor situation...for the enjoyment of all.
I didn't take it that way. There are always some nutty things happening in the cardosphere.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:32 AM.


ebay GSB