Paypal for Dummies

[Tim Kindler]

OK Guys and Gals out there, don't laugh, but I'm not set up for Paypal and have never wanted to know a thing about it till now I am an Old School Guy when it comes to making deals with cards, etc., but have decided to get into the 21st Century. Can someone tell me in PLAIN ENGLISH how Paypal works, how you get set up for it, how you get your $ or pay for something, and what about this 3% add fee that I see on the BST if you want people to pay with Paypal. Is Paypal just an ebay thing? I would like to buy and sell on ebay more.

I am asking for your help, but please don't bust my chops for being a dinosaur when it comes to this current technology!

Thanks,
Tim Kindler

************DAMN!!!!! I TOLD YOU I AM A DINOSAUR AT THIS TECHNOLOGY STUFF, I POSTED THIS ON THE WRONG BOARD! CAN SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THE HECK THEY ARE DOING MOVE IT TO THE CORRECT BOARD!!!!!!!!

[HRBAKER]

Tim,
It's easy to sign up. Go to www.paypal.com. I am not full blown user as I don't have it linked to any bank account nor do I accept money through it as I am typically not a seller. The 3% most people reference is the vig/fee that paypal charges a seller for their service. Some people evidently think that paypal should offer their service for free and ask that you pay by "Paypal Gift" so they can avoid the fees on the receiving end.

I use it to pay with and I am a confirmed user as I have it linked to a credit card. From a seller's point of view it seems to offer almost instant access to your money as opposed to waiting for a check to clear, etc.

As a buyer it allows me to use a credit card to pay for things and not have to exchange any credit card information with the seller. It is very convenient from a buyer's POV. I cannot speak to it as a seller.

It is very easy to use as a buyer/payer. On ebay auctions you can click the "Pay Now" button and it will take you directly to the PP website where you log on and pay to the seller's account/e=mail address. For a non-ebay transaction like off the BST you simply enter in their paypal info, select the method of payment (out of your paypal account if you have a balance or a linked credit card), click and confirm. Very easy.

Jeff

[Tim Kindler]

Jeff, Appreciate your help on this!
Thanks to whoever moved this thread from the BST to the Main Board!
Best Wishes,
Tim

[dougscats]

All of what Jeff said is good information, Tim, but there's one thing I might quibble with, philosopically, if you like.

I would like/try to be an ethical person. [Snipe here.]

When it comes to the 3% "free lunch" that you can get by paying by "paypal as gift," I think it's great that I don't have to pay for once [like a free ride, peanuts at a bar, or a free drink once in awhile.] Of course, you can only do it [paypal as gift] for free when you pay by means other than a paypal credit card. You have to "pay by another method," such as transfer money from your own bank account. This can be a little tricky to do; I think paypal purposely doesn't make it easy--and the option comes up near the end of the transction, below the total.

Anyway, is this unethical? It's "personal" and to a "friend," in the language of paypal. I'd maintain that the Net54 forum is pretty personal and friendly [compared to ebay, e.g.], that there is a camaraderie here, reflected in the trust we have in trading/buying/selling, for instance--and it doesn't come with the commercial guarantees that buying on ebay and then paying by paypal would.

Is this all a rationalization for me exploiting the system/not paying? Maybe.

But I look at it as a corporate give-back, a perk, a service that paypal gives its customers. And surely it's good for their business--which they are encouraging me to do through them, rather than my paying by personal check. And now I become more cynical: Do you think that paypal doesn't know what it's doing?

Anyway, I wouldn't argue that Jeff is probably a more ethical person than I am. I'm probably more practical, but my conscience suffers if I ever do anything I deem unethical. As it is, this 3% off/no charge doesn't bother me; in fact, it makes me happy. Perhaps it's my mindset when dealing with a corporate giant. But don't get me wrong, Tim; I'm happy to use paypal.

I resisted at first, but became "verified" and started using paypal several ago, and now I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. There are all kinds of perks they give [like credit rewards], and there are other advantages, as well. Skeptical dinosaur that I am, I only signed up for a paypal credit card a few months ago, and it seems that there are advantages to using that, as well. Paypal also offers additional protection when buying on ebay, and they've been first-class whenever I've had to deal with them.

Enough from me,

Doug

[Leon]

Each time this discussion comes up I always have to give the paypal-correct way of saving money with them. If you don't need the money in less than 3-4 days, request the sender pay by e-check. Last time I did it I had to remove my back up funding (credit card) so it would allow me, but the most you will get hit for, by taking an e-check is $5. If you have a 1k+ payment you need to take, that e-check method of payment will save you a few lunches. I make it mandatory on larger amounts I take. Just a suggestion. I too don't really care for the ways to skirt the system, even though I am not perfect, I try to do things by the rules most of the times.

[drc]

You can have it so it takes and adds money directly to your bank account (as you ask-- they don't do it without you asking it to). I've had it this way for years and have had no problem. I drop the PayPall $ to my bank account.

As a seller, a positive is anyone can pay you with his or her credit card-- through paypal. Most normal citizens can't accept credit cards on their own.

[HRBAKER]

Doug,

I doubt if I am anymore ethical than the you for that matter. Just e-mail Paypal and ask them if your scenario is what they envision as the correct by the terms use of Paypal Gift. If I conduct a sale/purchase on the BST I am not making a gift of money to the seller, we are involved in an arms length transaction of commerce.

I guess the way I look at it is this, I don't work for free and I think that if I avail myself of paypal's services then I should expect to pay for them. That's all.

Good discussion.

Best,

Jeff

[autograf]

The other issue with paypal 'gift' if it hasn't been discussed is that by sending money via gift you waive any recourse you might have in the event that the transaction goes wrong. That is if someone doesn't use insurance to ship and you did 'gift' and it gets lost and you want your money back.......so sorry.....

Not gonna say I haven't done it before but Jeff does make a good point in that if my boss came to me and wanted me to work for free, I'd tell him to pound salt. If you're a seller on ebay, you can get a debit card to pull $$ from your seller's account and use it for purchases and get a small amount back of that 2.9% that they charge you.

In all actuality, it's illegal to request that someone pay you 2.9-3% MORE for an item for you to accept paypal. At least that's the way I understand it. That invalidates the user agreement for accepting Paypal. You should build that into your fees or what you're requesting for the item OR give a discount for cash/check, not charge a vig for the choice to use Paypal. Don't think anyone's gonna beat down your doors but always good to know what's up........

If you buy on eBay, Paypal is an absolute must. I can't imagine living without it on ebay. It expedites the transaction, gives you a moderate amount of protection--even more if you use your credit card on the purchase, and keeps an online record of payment for a LONG time.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by autograf

In all actuality, it's illegal to request that someone pay you 2.9-3% MORE for an item for you to accept paypal. At least that's the way I understand it. That invalidates the user agreement for accepting Paypal. You should build that into your fees or what you're requesting for the item OR give a discount for cash/check, not charge a vig for the choice to use Paypal. Don't think anyone's gonna beat down your doors but always good to know what's up........

While it's not "illegal", it is against their rules. Also, for anybody with a merchant account of any kind (Paypal may fall under this in certain circumstances), it is also against the rules to offer a discount for a cash/check transaction in lieu of a credit card payment...........unless you are selling gas in certain selected states.

[tonyo]

Tim,

I've used paypal for years and never had any problems. More and more places other than eBay are accepting it as well.

Although I understand the points, the whole gift issue is a shoulder shrugger for me....., but I did just update my two listings on BST !

Tony

[B O'Brien]

Being the fine upstanding Irish (C word) boy that I am, I do hate to use the "gift" to sell, due to the guilt, but on the other hand, it helps me sell things at 3% less to the other fine members of 54. I am more than happy to take a 3% hit on ebay from folks I don't know or trust. I only use the 3% gift rule here (checks, cash and MO always welcome!), because I think it is a nice thing to do amoung card trading buddies.

But back to the point from Tim's post. I am a fan of Paypal as a buyer and a seller. I can buy something on my CC without having to worry about having cash on hand. This lets me sell the stuff to pay for it over a month!!! On the seller side, I have sold some stuff to folks on ebay (like myself) that have limited cash on hand, from time to time, until sales are made to pay. I think it has helped me as a buyer and seller on ebay, and the BST.

Hope all is well and just my opinon,
Bob

[dougscats]

I just made a buy using paypal as gift again.
Only this time I feel guilty.
Thanks guys.

In the end, I do usually follow my feelings [I trust them more than rationalization], so my "gift" days may be over [though I still hold out hope of being persuaded otherwise].
Of course, you're right, Jeff; once the word "gift" is used, it's hard to argue ethics [This had dawned on me just before I read your message; I couldn't believe I had conveniently overlooked that word].

I am like an old dog, I'm sorry to say; sometimes I have to learn a lesson a few times before it gets drilled in [though to be honest, age has nothing to do with it; like how many times must I learn to be more prudent and shut up sometimes?].
I've found myself humbled/disappointed in myself on Net54 a few times, now. But I would aspire to integrity, and so I appreciate the lessons.

The aforesaid notwithstanding, I'm happily editing this ending!

I just tested it [Sending money by paypal] your way, drc--going to "Personal"/checking "Payment Owed" [instead of "Gift"], and then changing Method of Payment from credit card to bank account--and lo and behold it worked!--no fee to either buyer or seller!

So you can transact for free, and ethically, too!

Good news for all!

Thanks again.

Duh, Doug

[glynparson]

It is not wrong per the credit card companies policies to give a cash discount it is against the policies to have a credit card surcharge. At least with mine. This may be splitting hairs but the listed price is to be the credit price and you have every right to give someone a cash break just not a credit card surcharge.