Wander Franco...

[JustinD]

Yeesh...that 11-year 182 million contract two years ago is looking like a rough investment at this moment. Hope the morals clause is solid.

Suspended in June for being a jerk and suspended now for possibly being much, much worse.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Yeesh...that 11-year 182 million contract two years ago is looking like a rough investment at this moment. Hope the morals clause is solid.

Suspended in June for being a jerk and suspended now for possibly being much, much worse.

Not suspended (yet), but placed on the restricted list. Personally I have yet to see anything incriminating but I'm glad MLB seems to be taking it seriously.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not suspended (yet), but placed on the restricted list. Personally I have yet to see anything incriminating but I'm glad MLB seems to be taking it seriously.

There are numerous incriminating photos with the minor on Twitter which is why it came to light so quickly. Granted, innocent until proven guilty...however there's a lot of stuff out there as far as photo and video evidence at the moment. Going to be a long way to get this one cleared.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by JustinD

There are numerous incriminating photos with the minor on Twitter which is why it came to light so quickly. Granted, innocent until proven guilty...however there's a lot of stuff out there as far as photo and video evidence at the moment. Going to be a long way to get this one cleared.

Yes, I saw those photos but do we know who that is and how old they are? I'm reserving judgement until I know that's not his cousin or something. If that's been determined then I agree it looks very bad

[G1911]

Trial by social media is not good. Let’s see actual evidence, and reserve judgement until said evidence.

His life will be destroyed no matter what now. Hell, Bauer’s accusers phone didn’t even cast doubt on her claims, it proved she absolutely lied and he was innocent. And he’s still blackballed and considered guilty for political expedience by a ton of the population anyways. An evidentiary basis and due process are wonderful things, just less juicy than believing every Twitter claim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Along with the curve ball and injuries, I guess potential bad behavior is one more reason not to anoint a kid at age 17 and put a ton of money into his cards. People were just gaga over Wander as a minor league prospect.

[todeen]

Today he was placed on Admin Leave, with the expectation he will not return this season. Considering this is a legal matter, I would be shocked if he returns next season. I did find it interesting though, he will continue to get service time accrual and paid until the matter is settled. I understand payment, but accruing service time should not be part of the deal.

His card prices are tanking. What he did was worse than Bauer.

Bauer is blackballed because he seems to make poor life choices. One can easily deduct that his drone/hand accident hurt the Indians playoff hopes in 2016. If he had been healthy, they might have had a better stronger bullpen; Andrew Miller was superman, but even he was tired running on fumes. Bauer pitched a loss in Game 2 of the WS because he couldn't throw off speed.

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[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by todeen

Today he was placed on Admin Leave, with the expectation he will not return this season. Considering this is a legal matter, I would be shocked if he returns next season. I did find it interesting though, he will continue to get service time accrual and paid until the matter is settled. I understand payment, but accruing service time should not be part of the deal.

His card prices are tanking. What he did was worse than Bauer.

Bauer is blackballed because he seems to make poor life choices. One can easily deduct that his drone/hand accident hurt the Indians playoff hopes in 2016. If he had been healthy, they might have had a better stronger bullpen; Andrew Miller was superman, but even he was tired running on fumes. Bauer pitched a loss in Game 2 of the WS because he couldn't throw off speed.

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I could not find it if a player is on Administrative Leave is he still paid by the team or not?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I could not find it if a player is on Administrative Leave is he still paid by the team or not?

in the Fox Sports article I read, it says that payment and service time accrual was the agreed protocol in the 2015 Domestic Violence agreement signed between MLB and MLBPA.

"MLB and the players' association agreed to the joint domestic violence policy in 2015. It allows a player to be placed on administrative leave for seven days but allows for MLB to request extensions while it investigates.

A player continues to receive pay and accrue major league service while on administrative leave."

https://foxsports.onelink.me/SY6x/4s6t4vpo

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[bk400]

Originally Posted by todeen

Today he was placed on Admin Leave, with the expectation he will not return this season. Considering this is a legal matter, I would be shocked if he returns next season. I did find it interesting though, he will continue to get service time accrual and paid until the matter is settled. I understand payment, but accruing service time should not be part of the deal.

His card prices are tanking. What he did was worse than Bauer.

Bauer is blackballed because he seems to make poor life choices. One can easily deduct that his drone/hand accident hurt the Indians playoff hopes in 2016. If he had been healthy, they might have had a better stronger bullpen; Andrew Miller was superman, but even he was tired running on fumes. Bauer pitched a loss in Game 2 of the WS because he couldn't throw off speed.

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I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

Lawrence Taylor 9’s regularly sell for over 400 bucks and were pushing a grand during the pandemic run-up. That’s not bad for an 80’s era mass produced Rookie card IMO. Especially for a non-QB not named Jerry Rice.

Collectors and fans have short memories when it comes to generational talents.

Whether this Franco kid qualifies for that title eventually, is an entirely different question.

[mrreality68]

I do not like that the players get paid while on administrative leave. For the first week I think they should get paid but if they need to extend it then that means they found something that potentially validates the claim.
To me the money should go in an escrow account and then if the player is cleared they get the money.
If the player is found guilty and the player will be suspended or whatever then the money is forfeited just like when they are suspend they lose that pay.

Never happen of course since the player association protects their players even during the worst of situations like domestic violence.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I do not like that the players get paid while on administrative leave. For the first week I think they should get paid but if they need to extend it then that means they found something that potentially validates the claim.

To me the money should go in an escrow account and then if the player is cleared they get the money.

If the player is found guilty and the player will be suspended or whatever then the money is forfeited just like when they are suspend they lose that pay.



Never happen of course since the player association protects their players even during the worst of situations like domestic violence.

Admin leave outside of baseball has two paths, with pay and without. Without pay usually means you have done something against the company you work for, or is being used as a consequence of your actions which you admitted - or were caught red handed.

Leave with pay is because our Justice system stands behind "innocent until proven guilty." It would be totally wrong to remove his source of income that he needs to pay bail, lawyers, court fees etc while trying to prove his innocence. I'm sure his contract has some statement that the team can seek reparations if he breaks the terms of his contract. I'm sure there is some form of morality clause included seeing that Domestic Violence policy was signed in 2015. Rays can then take him to court to recover wages they paid during this time he was under investigation.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Lawrence Taylor 9’s regularly sell for over 400 bucks and were pushing a grand during the pandemic run-up. That’s not bad for an 80’s era mass produced Rookie card IMO. Especially for a non-QB not named Jerry Rice.

Collectors and fans have short memories when it comes to generational talents.

Whether this Franco kid qualifies for that title eventually, is an entirely different question.

OJ rookies aren't being given away, are they?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bk400

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

I suspect it is more that these people may not have been following the news. I doubt any informed person is investing in Wander now, his career is over independent of actual guilt.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bk400

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

People are often blind to logic. These are the same flippers or fans that are thinking they can buy the dip and get a card at a fraction of the price and it will return to normal. It's pure and utter speculation gambling. Yes, they are selling for 300 bucks in the dump off, however these exact same cards were selling for a minimum of 10 times that just weeks earlier.

If you are a novice and think he really could return, buying a 4-5k card on August 10th for just 300 bucks on August 17th seems like a steal. Really I see no chance for that holding as it dies down, but until a completion comes to the case people will still be trying to make a buck.

Hell, people are still buying Henry Ruggs III cards for 300 bucks if they are rare enough, look it up. People are just odd.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by JustinD

People are often blind to logic. These are the same flippers or fans that are thinking they can buy the dip and get a card at a fraction of the price and it will return to normal. It's pure and utter speculation gambling. Yes, they are selling for 300 bucks in the dump off, however these exact same cards were selling for a minimum of 10 times that just weeks earlier.



If you are a novice and think he really could return, buying a 4-5k card on August 10th for just 300 bucks on August 17th seems like a steal. Really I see no chance for that holding as it dies down, but until a completion comes to the case people will still be trying to make a buck.



Hell, people are still buying Henry Ruggs III cards for 300 bucks if they are rare enough, look it up. People are just odd.

Second this opinion.

I would not "buy the dip" in this case. What a stupid term, I've never really liked it while talking about cards. They do exist, but this one feels very different than a sophomore slump. The 2008 - 2013 dip years had some fantastic deals if you had money to spend.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

More a falling knife than a dip.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by todeen

Second this opinion.

I would not "buy the dip" in this case. What a stupid term, I've never really liked it while talking about cards. They do exist, but this one feels very different than a sophomore slump. The 2008 - 2013 dip years had some fantastic deals if you had money to spend.

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I used "buy the dip" to infer sarcasm toward the card investor crowd, not in a real way. I love to read Wall Street Bets on reddit for a laugh and it's now ingrained in my memory as a fun noob identifier.

[todeen]

Article on The Athletic surveyed immigration lawyers about Franco's chance to get a visa to return to the US. They said extremely unlikely. Immigration officials don't care about guilty or not guilty for non-citizens. They care about protecting US citizens. The lawyers don't think he'll play again.

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[John1941]

So what's the next step for him? Japan? Korea? Or a long life of disgraced inactivity?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by John1941

So what's the next step for him? Japan? Korea? Or a long life of disgraced inactivity?

Possibly jail.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by John1941

So what's the next step for him? Japan? Korea? Or a long life of disgraced inactivity?

No one is likely to give him a shot, and it is very likely if the charges stick on the three girls they are looking to charge for that he will be a decade older or more before he can even try. It’s over…forever

[todeen]

Here is The Athletic article I quoted, from January 9. If you are a NYT subscriber, you already have access to The Athletic; just sign in with your NYT login.

https://theathletic.com/5188954/2024...united-states/

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[bk400]

Originally Posted by todeen

Here is The Athletic article I quoted, from January 9. If you are a NYT subscriber, you already have access to The Athletic; just sign in with your NYT login.

https://theathletic.com/5188954/2024...united-states/

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A couple of reactions. First, I think Wander Franco's situation reveals the level of desperation that occurs in developing countries. It is sad. And for Wander Franco, given his means, to take advantage of that...he's a douchebag. Actually, no. A-Rod is a douchebag. Wander Franco is something beyond that. He clearly doesn't deserve to work in the United States again.

Second, as much of an uber-douchebag that Wander Franco appears to be, he's not as dangerous as some of these MS-13 gangbangers that apparently have come into the country unimpeded recently. And I say this as a second generation American who believes that the US should generally be magnanimous toward immigrants.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bk400

A couple of reactions. First, I think Wander Franco's situation reveals the level of desperation that occurs in developing countries. It is sad. And for Wander Franco, given his means, to take advantage of that...he's a douchebag. Actually, no. A-Rod is a douchebag. Wander Franco is something beyond that. He clearly doesn't deserve to work in the United States again.

Second, as much of an uber-douchebag that Wander Franco appears to be, he's not as dangerous as some of these MS-13 gangbangers that apparently have come into the country unimpeded recently. And I say this as a first generation American who believes that the US should generally be magnanimous toward immigrants.

It has become a big thing here but not that long ago it was pretty accepted here. Pete Rose was known to like those "hard-bellies". A lot of songs from before the 90s were about young girls. When I was in HS there was several young girls openly dating guys in their 30s and older. It is a horrible thing but it is not just a developing country problem.

[rjackson44]

hes done the dumbest baseball player in history

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It has become a big thing here but not that long ago it was pretty accepted here. Pete Rose was known to like those "hard-bellies". A lot of songs from before the 90s were about young girls. When I was in HS there was several young girls openly dating guys in their 30s and older. It is a horrible thing but it is not just a developing country problem.

Gary Puckett and the Union Gap. Big hit.

Young Blood. Lieber and Stoller.

Jim Croce's take was comical -- Five Short Minutes.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by bk400

A couple of reactions. First, I think Wander Franco's situation reveals the level of desperation that occurs in developing countries. It is sad.

Yes. I didn't follow very closely for a few months, but the girl's mother has been arrested for money laundering. I would call it prostituting her daughter, but maybe money laundering is a more serious charge. Anyway, she has more serious charges than Franco does. I think his charges bring 1-3 years in prison, while her's are upwards to 10 yrs.

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[bk400]

Call me cynical, but if the case didn't shine such a spotlight on the DR authorities, I suspect Wander Franco could have paid his way out of any trouble there. Maybe he still can.