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  #1  
Old 05-07-2013, 09:17 PM
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Default Mantle topps

I have been thinking of buying a 1952 Mantle Topps rookie. Does nayone knOW anything about this one? What are your thoughts on BVG? What is the going rate for a centered 3-4 with good color(the one below a good deal)?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-orig...item2c6e99fbd2
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:24 PM
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Seems like a nice one! Might downgrade with a different tpg, but maybe not. You will have better response on the post war side. ps not bad for 9K. Buy the card not the holder as they say.
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2013, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie View Post
Seems like a nice one! Might downgrade with a different tpg, but maybe not. You will have better response on the post war side. ps not bad for 9K. Buy the card not the holder as they say.
Agreed... just want one untampered with and all original. Wanted thoughts on BVG.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:41 PM
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I rank BVG 3rd, 1st PSA 2nd SGC. By the way, the centering of that mick is super. Dave
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  #5  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:33 PM
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I get the impression that folks that actually use BVG *love* BVG. They might not be as strict with their grading, but their slabs are tamper-proof and of course they're "legit" (not a fly-by-night operator like some others you see on ebay).

I guess I can't speak of their ability to discern a fake 52 mantle from a real one, but I guess it would be tough to speak to that for any of the TPAs.

There was a real 52 Mantle expert on the board here though...a nice long rundown of fake 52 Mantle tells. Maybe he could help you with the authenticity issues...then you could just buy the card with no thought given to who'd slabbed it.
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  #6  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:34 PM
cubsfan-budman cubsfan-budman is offline
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Here's a recent thread:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=mantle+fake
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  #7  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:47 PM
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I would assume BVG is reasonable. Beckett is if anything more popular and gets higher prices than PSA with modern/recent/insert cards, but doesn't have the same following with vintage. Also, it's a lower grade card. It's not if it's a Nrmt-Mt example.

I think it's a nice looking card. Though, in the grand scheme of things, it amazes me how expensive is the 52T Mantle.

Last edited by drc; 05-07-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:41 AM
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52 is not his rookie just the first Topps produced card of him. 51 bowman is much nicer IMO, cheaper, and his actual rookie. Still nice iconic image on the 52 though. Best of luck on one. Go for a SGC slab as the make the image enhanced with that nice black matte boarder.
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  #9  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:00 AM
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Personally I truly like BVG and yes that Mantle is well priced and is also nice for the grade. You would be lucky to find another one that nice for the grade...I say buy it!!! But do not over bid wait to the last minute to place a bid even better the last 20 seconds.

I also own a 52 Topps graded PSA 4 (looks more like a 5)....like I said when a nice one pops up at a reasonable price buy it!!!

To give you a idea I paid 12 950$ for a PSA 4 (again it looks like a 5) so a BVG in 3.5 at less than 10 000$ is a good buy....plus it looks pretty well centered as well.

If you live outside the U.S have it shipped to you using FeDex priority worldwide you will get it the very next day and is the MOST safe method for such a card. I would NEVER use UPS or USPS for this card.

Last edited by Zone91; 05-08-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zone91 View Post
Personally I truly like BVG and yes that Mantle is well priced and is also nice for the grade. You would be lucky to find another one that nice for the grade...I say buy it!!! But do not over bid wait to the last minute to place a bid even better the last 20 seconds.

I also own a 52 Topps graded PSA 4 (looks more like a 5)....like I said when a nice one pops up at a reasonable price buy it!!!

To give you a idea I paid 12 950$ for a PSA 4 (again it looks like a 5) so a BVG in 3.5 at less than 10 000$ is a good buy....plus it looks pretty well centered as well.

If you live outside the U.S have it shipped to you using FeDex priority worldwide you will get it the very next day and is the MOST safe method for such a card. I would NEVER use UPS or USPS for this card.
So you ended up buying the '52 Topps Mantle? I thought you had decided to buy the N302 Dunlop instead.
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  #11  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:19 AM
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4815162342

I made a last minute change and upped for the 52 Mantle....did not want to say it here since you guys already think am I kind of crazy.

The Dunlop is a great card but that specific one had sold for a little over 6200$ a few months ago (probably a real good deal for the buyer)...I was not going to spend 12 500$ on it (yes it is probably worth over 10 000$ but not to me). I told the seller....same guy that sold me the 52 Topps Mantle.

Buy a card over 10 000$ and you will see your mind will play games on you as well....it is a lot of money....you have to make the right buy....EVEN if that means changing your mind a few times. I would have NOT have done so if it was 2 separate sellers.

In the end it made me realize I am going to stick with baseball cards no matter what now and in the future.

If I had not got the 52 Topps Mantle I would have not been happy in the end...and I am very very happy with the Mantle. I will always cherish the Mantle as part of my collection I would have not had the same felling for the Dunlop after a few months maybe (Probably) less.

Last edited by Zone91; 05-08-2013 at 09:33 AM.
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  #12  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:38 AM
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I would wait a bit. It's well centered, but I think you could do better for $10,000. I'm sure a nice one will show up soon enough.

T205 makes a valid point, Mick's 51 Bowman card can be had at a bargain compared to the 52 Topps. Personally I would consider both to be "rookie" cards, but as previously mentioned, the 1952 Topps image is an iconic piece of baseball history.

However, if you choose 51 over 52 I suggest the 1951 Wheaties Premium photo.. It's a much nicer pic of Mantle than the 51 Bowman IMO.
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  #13  
Old 05-08-2013, 09:44 AM
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$9600 for the BVG 3.5 is not a great deal. It's not an outrageous price either, to be sure, but again it's not a bargain. For reference, a PSA 3.5 with admittedly far less eye appeal sold for around $8300, if memory serves me right. Patience is key with a card like this, which does surface. Cards that hit market very infrequently, in those cases a quick trigger and paying a premium are very understandable.

Most readily available examples of the #311 do have serious eye appeal issues such as surface loss or poor centering, thus when one with eye appeal does pop up, it can be tempting to pay a premium-- but in this case, IMO, the premium is just a tad too significant. You are in PSA 4 territory at 10K.

Last edited by MattyC; 05-08-2013 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:50 AM
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Try and see if the dealer is willing to sell it for a lower price with a buy it now option....I have had luck with this in the past quite often when I used to collect rare coins. Do not show to much hype over the card otherwise this option is out the window.

Last edited by Zone91; 05-08-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zone91 View Post
4815162342

I made a last minute change and upped for the 52 Mantle....did not want to say it here since you guys already think am I kind of crazy.

The Dunlop is a great card but that specific one had sold for a little over 6200$ a few months ago (probably a real good deal for the buyer)...I was not going to spend 12 500$ on it (yes it is probably worth over 10 000$ but not to me). I told the seller....same guy that sold me the 52 Topps Mantle.

Buy a card over 10 000$ and you will see your mind will play games on you as well....it is a lot of money....you have to make the right buy....EVEN if that means changing your mind a few times. I would have NOT have done so if it was 2 separate sellers.

In the end it made me realize I am going to stick with baseball cards no matter what now and in the future.

If I had not got the 52 Topps Mantle I would have not been happy in the end...and I am very very happy with the Mantle. I will always cherish the Mantle as part of my collection I would have not had the same felling for the Dunlop after a few months maybe (Probably) less.
I agree here. Personally, I think the Mantle was a better buy than Dunlop especially since you've always wanted one.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Young View Post
I have been thinking of buying a 1952 Mantle Topps rookie. Does nayone knOW anything about this one? What are your thoughts on BVG? What is the going rate for a centered 3-4 with good color(the one below a good deal)?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-orig...item2c6e99fbd2
Hi Ben,

I've been considering the same thing for a couple of years now. I know from our previous discussions that we both are very confident with evaluating Type 1 photos (I still would have loved to have gotten the '51 Type I photo of Mantle used for the '52 Topps card but not at the price it went for). At least for me , cards are an entirely different ball game. I still have all of my 50's Bowman and Topps cards from childhood, so I know the feel, smell, gloss etc. of the real thing for each issue.

But for me to spend a considerable amount of money (10-15k) on a 1952 Topps Mantle would raise a number of issues. First would I prefer the eye appeal over the grade? Probably. Corners and to some extent centering would take a back seat to color saturation, registration and a clean surface and borders. Which TPA? PSA would be my choice. Where and how to buy? I agree with what others have said that seeing it in person is the ideal approach and going with a major company like Memory Lane, Heritage, etc. also makes sense. Personally, I would avoid Ebay and if I could not do it in person, then one of the major auction houses. Over 25 years ago, I was offered '52 Topps Mantles on two different occasions and turned them both down, not because of price but because of my naivety with regard to authenticity and grading.

Even though the '51 Bowman is his true rookie card and for comparable grades can be had for much less than the '52 Topps, I still prefer the large size and iconic image of the '52 Topps. Whatever you decide, all my best for obtaining what you want.

Cheers,

Craig
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  #17  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:36 AM
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Did someone say 1951 Bowman Mantle....?


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  #18  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:44 AM
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Side note: BGS used to be, by far, the toughest grading company on the planet. They created BVG and downgraded their grading scale so that they can compete with PSA/SGC. I had some postwar cards in the old BGS holders that would easily upgrade two full grades if they were crossed-over.

As a raw card collector, I hate having to crack a BVG slab... But the cards are well protected. Much better then the other TPGs. The holders also don't damage the card edges (what an amazing concept)

-Matt
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:00 PM
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WOW! That Mantle is a BLAZER!!!!!!!
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:07 PM
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One more thing you most consider there are people including myself that DO NOT buy mid grades (ex: 3.5 or say 4.5)....I just can't do it it bugs me to much.

The other things is the seller will always say it looks more like a 4 and the buyer will always say the opposite it looks more like a 3.

Last edited by Zone91; 05-08-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:22 PM
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I would not have any hesitation with the fact it is in a BVG holder. I have purchased several mantles in BVG holders, including my rookie. My only advice would be to avoid going with a buy it now. Not sure the actual value of a 3.5 but know that every single one of the buy it nows for the lower grades are higher than they should be by a significant margin. Good luck, they are beautiful cards in person.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zone91 View Post
One more thing you most consider there are people including myself that DO NOT buy mid grades (ex: 3.5 or say 4.5)....I just can't do it it bugs me to much.

The other things is the seller will always say it looks more like a 4 and the buyer will always say the opposite it looks more like a 3.
What did you buy and how much was it? I assume your avatar is the card but it is too small. I like mid-grades of older cards as that is what I remember at all the shows(high end) before the slabbing started. All of a sudden, high grades are all over the place. You can tak that however you want to. I would rathe rhave a beautiful midgrade(centered/good color) than a high grade that I am unsure of trim job, soaked, ironed or touched up in any way.
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Last edited by Forever Young; 05-08-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Young View Post
I would rathe rhave a beautiful midgrade(centered/good color) than a high grade that I am unsure of trim job, soaked, ironed or touched up in any way.
I second that sentiment all the way. I love buying lower or mid grade examples of a card that usually commands silly money in high grade. I especially like my older cards to look the part; I'm naturally wary of any very old card that is in very high condition. With those mint and gem examples, in general I will always wonder if an expert doctor slipped one past the goalie. Also, I prefer a low grade card whose value is tied directly to its being low pop across all grades to a high grade card which costs the same, but the value is all in the grade/condition.

Regarding Zone's post, I wonder though if by "mid grades" he really meant "half" grades.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:29 PM
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Just my humble opinion, but to follow up on my original post:

When purchasing a high dollar card like that, the main concern should be authenticity, not the company that slabbed it. There was no reason to do a ton of research on the authenticity of the 52 Topps Schoendienst that I bought...so I just bought any slabbed one that was at the right price point for the condition I wanted.

Buying a Mantle is more and less complex, in my mind. More complex because you need to either have enough expertise to verify for yourself that it is real or leverage someone else's expertise that you trust to do the same. Less complex because you can buy any that you like regardless of TPA (or raw), once you're convinced it's real.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:37 PM
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Forever Young

I purchased a great looking 52 Topps Mantle in PSA 4 (looks like a 5 for sure) and paid 12 950$. Just got the card a few hours ago it looks truly awesome!!!

No my avatar is a PSA 9 not mine and never will be.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:39 PM
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MattyC

Yes I mean .5 grades. But that is me if you are OK with that by all means buy one that is a mid grade.

Last edited by Zone91; 05-08-2013 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:50 PM
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Here is an article on pricing trends on the 52 Topps Mantle from Dec 2012 SCD: Link. Not sure if someone else has more recent or accurate trending on prices here.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:54 PM
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glchen

I have been following 52 Topps Mantles on Ebay + Heritage auctions for years and they ALWAYS sell well...of course the ones with nice eye appeal go for much more. A ugly for may cost you 8500$ to 10 000$ and a super nice looking 4 will cost your around 13 000$.

Last edited by Zone91; 05-08-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:24 PM
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Generally speaking, 80-90% of cards won't get a half grade, it is reserved for cards that are very high end for the grade. I don't know whether that is the case for BVG, but I have read it is the case for PSA. So a half-grade bump really does add considerably to the price. Personally, I would have no hesitations about buying a card that has a half-grade.

Same for BVG, especially post-war. It is a nice holder and BVG is pretty popular post-war. How they sell compared to PSA price-wise, I don't know. It's your call on the card, but imo it is pretty decent looking for the grade. Wish he had a scan instead of photos, however.
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