Rose requests to be reinstated

[EvilKing00]

Pete Rose has made a formal request to be reinstated to Major League Baseball, and new commissioner Rob Manfred agreed to meet with Rose and hear him out.

“I want to make sure I understand all of the details of the Dowd Report and Commissioner Bart Giamatti’s decision and the agreement that was ultimately reached,” Manfred said Monday morning, via ESPN. “I want to hear what Pete has to say, and I’ll make a decision once I’ve done that.”


I think rose should be in the hof, i also think his punishment should be to not be alloud to ciach, manage, own or be any part of a mlb team. But a member if the hof he should be. Thoughts....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Pete Rose has made a formal request to be reinstated to Major League Baseball, and new commissioner Rob Manfred agreed to meet with Rose and hear him out.

“I want to make sure I understand all of the details of the Dowd Report and Commissioner Bart Giamatti’s decision and the agreement that was ultimately reached,” Manfred said Monday morning, via ESPN. “I want to hear what Pete has to say, and I’ll make a decision once I’ve done that.”


I think rose should be in the hof, i also think his punishment should be to not be alloud to ciach, manage, own or be any part of a mlb team. But a member if the hof he should be. Thoughts....

He will be a member of the HOF within the next 5 years., I wish there was a betting prop on this.

[jefferyepayne]

Took him longer than I thought! I figured he's be the 8am meeting the day Manfred took over

I hope he gets in.

jeff

[iwantitiwinit]

When I was a kid I loved the guy. I always wore #14. Run it out Rose, Charlie Hustle. Made me sick to my stomach when he was bannished, I despised the guy.

Now I feel like what the heck its been long enough, let the poor guy in who cares. Doing it now seems so much better to me than doing it posthumously.

[Eric72]

.

[barrysloate]

If Rose gets in it opens a giant can of worms. There is a long line behind him of other stars who will ask for entry. Don't think it will happen.

[jiw98]

I agree that the punishment should stand for Rose betting on baseball as a manager. I think Rose should have long ago been in the Hall as a player. His playing days were done when the betting occurred. JMO

[xplainer]

He should be in the HOF. There are numerous players in there with less than stellar lives outside the diamond.

He never bet on the Reds to lose (throw the game). He bet on other game he had no impact on.

Give him his flowers while he is alive to enjoy them.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by xplainer

He should be in the HOF. There are numerous players in there with less than stellar lives outside the diamond.

He never bet on the Reds to lose (throw the game). He bet on other game he had no impact on.

Give him his flowers while he is alive to enjoy them.

I feel he should be let in as a player and banned from the coaching sideline for betting as a manager, like most here. However, just because he (supposedly) didn't bet on his team to lose, don't think he didn't affect the games he managed.

[JoeDfan]

Pete should absolutely be reinstated. No question about it.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

He will be a member of the HOF within the next 5 years., I wish there was a betting prop on this.

Well, if there were a betting prop on this, Rose would be the guy to find it for you.

[PM770]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

He will be a member of the HOF within the next 5 years., I wish there was a betting prop on this.

I can't tell if this is meant to be ironic or if you are serious. Bravo.

[packs]

Even if he was eligible I highly doubt he'd garner enough favor to get voted in. People don't like him. And for good reason. Many more good reasons than writers don't like PED guys. So if they can't get in, why would Rose?

[rats60]

Even if Pete gets reinstated, I can't see other players voting him in the HOF. It's just like the dopers. Players who had respect for the game and it's rules, won't turn a blind eye to those who cheated the game.

As far as Pete not betting against his team, he did that every time he didn’t bet on the Reds. You better believe he managed those games differently and gamblers noticed. Pete should be permanently ineligible, in my opinion.

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by rats60

Even if Pete gets reinstated, I can't see other players voting him in the HOF. It's just like the dopers. Players who had respect for the game and it's rules, won't turn a blind eye to those who cheated the game.

As far as Pete not betting against his team, he did that every time he didn’t bet on the Reds. You better believe he managed those games differently and gamblers noticed. Pete should be permanently ineligible, in my opinion.

As a life long Reds fan and whose favorite player was Pete Rose, I don't believe he should be re-instated.

Look at it this way. Pete knew the "CARDINAL RULE".......Don't bet on baseball. I will never believe that Pete bet against the Reds however, Pete was placing bets with bookies who are tied to the Mob. So let's say Pete gets down $500K and can't pay. Well, ole Tommy Two Times pays him a visit and tells Pete that if he doesn't throw the game, he will break both his legs and kill his family.

This is why MLB has the "death penalty" for betting on your team. You have to keep this out of the game. One way to do this is make examples of Pete and Joe Jackson. There has to be some sort of deterrent. Do the crime you must do the time.

Just my $0.02

Mark

[PhilG]

BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

Posted prominently in every major league clubhouse. And note that it does not provide for ANY exceptions.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by PhilG

BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

Posted prominently in every major league clubhouse. And note that it does not provide for ANY exceptions.

I agree. Just because Rose is the most famous to break this rule doesn't mean he should get special consideration.

[7nohitter]

I don't like his hair. Therefor, he's out.

[begsu1013]

i am heavily vested in rose both in heart and in cards (#3 basic topps registry set).

with that being said, i'm torn. i'd love to see him get in but the controversy of whether he should or not keeps him fresh in the minds every year and card prices strong.

there is no perfect answer.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by philg

betting on ball games. Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

Posted prominently in every major league clubhouse. And note that it does not provide for any exceptions.

+1000

[Bugsy]

There is a significant potential for disaster with this. When I worked at the Hall of Fame, some very high ranking people told me a very significant number of Hall of Famers would boycott Induction Weekend if Rose gets in.

[jerseygary]

As a Mets fan, I can't tell you how much joy I had heckling Rose from the Shea Stadium stands. Just the sight of him running out onto the field made me wince because even when he didn't have a bat in his hand he would find some way to beat you. But if the devil himself came up from his lair and I had to pick a baseball team to save my soul, Pete Rose would be the first guy I pick for my team. With the exception of Ken Griffey, Jr. I can't think of any baseball player I watched live that was that darn good. I don't think 9/10 of the guys voted into the Hall in the past 15 years have the talent to have been Rose's batboy.

However he knowingly broke the biggest sin in baseball. Bet on horses, bet on football, hell, bet on freaking soccer, but you don't bet on baseball!

Do I think Pete threw a game? No - Pete's desire to win meant he couldn't have done that if he tried. But when he bet on Reds games even for the Reds to win, what about the games he didn't lay a bet down on the Reds? He just tipped off every bookie in the country not to take any good odds on the Reds that day. It's as good as him laying a bet against his team.

And Joe Jackson? Sure his stats say he was a Hall of Famer. But he threw a World Series. He took the money to do it. I never bought the angle that he was too dim witted to understand what he was doing or that he had no choice. The only place Joe Jackson should have in the Hall is a display on how he and the other Sox threw the series.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

As a Mets fan, I can't tell you how much joy I had heckling Rose from the Shea Stadium stands. Just the sight of him running out onto the field made me wince because even when he didn't have a bat in his hand he would find some way to beat you. But if the devil himself came up from his lair and I had to pick a baseball team to save my soul, Pete Rose would be the first guy I pick for my team. With the exception of Ken Griffey, Jr. I can't think of any baseball player I watched live that was that darn good. I don't think 9/10 of the guys voted into the Hall in the past 15 years have the talent to have been Rose's batboy.

However he knowingly broke the biggest sin in baseball. Bet on horses, bet on football, hell, bet on freaking soccer, but you don't bet on baseball!

Do I think Pete threw a game? No - Pete's desire to win meant he couldn't have done that if he tried. But when he bet on Reds games even for the Reds to win, what about the games he didn't lay a bet down on the Reds? He just tipped off every bookie in the country not to take any good odds on the Reds that day. It's as good as him laying a bet against his team.

And Joe Jackson? Sure his stats say he was a Hall of Famer. But he threw a World Series. He took the money to do it. I never bought the angle that he was too dim witted to understand what he was doing or that he had no choice. The only place Joe Jackson should have in the Hall is a display on how he and the other Sox threw the series.

+1 Agree with everything you say.

[ibuysportsephemera]

It will never happen...too big of a can of worms. Especially with all of the big name dopers who aren't in and probably won't get in yet they hold some of the biggest records in baseball.

Jeff

[Kenny Cole]

No. I too loved him as a player when I was a kid. He ultimately proved to be a lying MF, denied it for a number of years, has no actual remorse for violating the rule posted on every clubhouse, and is a far worse candidate in terms of being a cheater and rule violater than is Joe Jackson. In my estimation he is completely despicable and he is made even more so by his "poor me" bullshit. He knew what he was doing, he ran the risk, and he lost the gamble. Screw him.

Kenny

[rats60]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

And Joe Jackson? Sure his stats say he was a Hall of Famer. But he threw a World Series. He took the money to do it. I never bought the angle that he was too dim witted to understand what he was doing or that he had no choice. The only place Joe Jackson should have in the Hall is a display on how he and the other Sox threw the series.

I don't think the evidence shows that Jackson took money or tried to throw games. However, I believe he knew what was going on and that made him part of the fix. I agree that both Jackson and Rose have no place in the hof.

It's just like the claim that Rose never bet against the Reds. He certainly did the times he didn't bet on them. One would have to be pretty naive to think Rose didn't manage differently and gamblers didn't notice. Both undermined the integrity of the game and are being rightfully punished.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Pete Rose has made a formal request to be reinstated to Major League Baseball, and new commissioner Rob Manfred agreed to meet with Rose and hear him out.

“I want to make sure I understand all of the details of the Dowd Report and Commissioner Bart Giamatti’s decision and the agreement that was ultimately reached,” Manfred said Monday morning, via ESPN. “I want to hear what Pete has to say, and I’ll make a decision once I’ve done that.”


I think rose should be in the hof, i also think his punishment should be to not be alloud to ciach, manage, own or be any part of a mlb team. But a member if the hof he should be. Thoughts....

agreed

[RedlegsFan]

Folks, we sorta got a problem. 4256 is the number of hits Rose smacked, not times he went to the bookie. I'm sorry Pete isn't portrayed on a tobacco card that will soon pay your grand daughters college tuition. I'm sorry Pete wasn't even born until after Pearl Harbor. And I'm sorry Ty Cobb's hit record was violated by a gambler.... No matter what he gambled, how much his cards suck or whatever, the man was and still is the best in baseball history at doing the very thing baseball is all about, "hitting the gosh damn ball with a stick." And he did it during an era where curve balls were actually considered gentlemanly.


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[RedlegsFan]

Sorry, Ol Pete "was" born before Pearl Harbor... Bad suggestion, but you get what I'm saying.


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[baseball tourist]

Don't think 'OL Pete should be reinstated. If the the new Commish gives him more than a sniff, wouldn't it be a slap in Bud Selig's face; especially this early after retirement?

[Joshchisox08]

No way. You let him back in you let the 8 men out back in you let Chase back in. Cicotte, Jackson, Chase, and maybe Williams and Weaver are HOF's. It would open to big a can of worms. Absolutely NOT.


The whole other half of it think of how the Sox players lives were ruined after that. Think of Pete Rose. Would it really be fair to re-instate him especially while he is alive ? I don't think so. He's still rich, he still has everything, he still bet on baseball.

[jason.1969]

I would put Rose in the Hall. I tend to see Rose's gambling as the manifestation of a disease and addiction (see DSM V - Gambling Disorder), and this makes it hard for me to condemn him.

[bnorth]

I vote to never let Pete in the Hall even if he buys a ticket. I also believe that anybody that tries to use the excuse of "I have a disease or addiction" should have their sentence doubled for being an idiot.

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I vote to never let Pete in the Hall even if he buys a ticket. I also believe that anybody that tries to use the excuse of "I have a disease or addiction" should have their sentence doubled for being an idiot.

If it's an excuse, then I'd call BS on him. However, I believe it's reality in Pete's case, so I try to maintain compassion for him.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

He may have to buy a ticket like you for now but he still has 4,256 more major league hits than me and you combined! He was a machine. I'm a Red Sox fan and I grew up loving Pete Rose and the way he played the game. He bled Red and was lightning in a bottle. He will be getting in the Hall for Free at some point in the next 5 years. Bank on it!

Peace, Mike

I bleed red too... I actually have never met anyone that didn't bleed red

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I loved Pete Rose as a kid; even wrote a fan letter and got a signed photo. But he did it. The Dowd Report documented his alleged bets on 52 Reds games in 1987.

The rule is crystal clear: "Rule 21 Misconduct, (d) Betting on Ball Games, Any player, umpire, or club, or league official, or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."

Rose repeatedly admitted he broke that rule. In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, Rose admitted to betting on Reds games. He repeated his admissions in an interview on the ABC news program Primetime Thursday. In March 2007, during an interview on The Dan Patrick Show on ESPN Radio, Rose said, "I bet on my team every night. I didn't bet on my team four nights a week. I bet on my team to win every night because I loved my team, I believed in my team," he said. "I did everything in my power every night to win that game."

So, Rose admittedly broke the one rule that calls for the 'death penalty' in baseball. He is properly permanently ineligible for a position in baseball. But the HOF was not part of that regime. On February 4, 1991, the Hall of Fame voted formally to exclude individuals on the permanently ineligible list from being inducted into the Hall of Fame by way of the Baseball Writers Association of America vote. He would have been eligible for consideration by the Veterans Committee in 2007, but did not appear on the ballot. In 2008 the Veterans Committee barred players and managers on the ineligible list from consideration.

This last bit bothers me. Rose broke a MLB rule that carries the sport's version of a death penalty. I believe he should be 'dead' to MLB--permanently ineligible for work--but the rules keeping him out of the HOF did not exist at the time of his offenses. That is an example of an ex post facto criminal law. Clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 and Clause 1 of Article I, Section 10, of the United States Constitution prohibit the Federal government and state governments from passing criminal laws that criminalize and punish past conduct that was not criminal at the time of the offense. Punishing Pete Rose for old offenses with new rules that expand his punishment is not how we do things. I think he is entitled to a vote of the Veterans' Committee. Now, does that open a potential can of worms for all of the ineligible players? Maybe. But I don't think the current situation is fair to Rose.

I think you answered your own questions. He didn't make the ballot even when he could have. So to think that he would make the ballot even if he was reinstated seems presumptuous. Even Joe Jackson received only 2 votes in two separate HOF votes and didn't get in. Even without the written rule, voters still don't vote for people they don't agree with getting in (PED users is another example).

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

If it's an excuse, then I'd call BS on him. However, I believe it's reality in Pete's case, so I try to maintain compassion for him.

If he was addicted to gambling, then he should have gambled in a way that didn't get him banished from baseball.

Regarding the Speaker/Cobb/Wood gambling thing - I am not sure what Landis was thinking, but my guess has always been that he thought banishing such huge names shortly after the Black Sox embarrassment, would have been too much for Major League baseball to handle. <=== purely speculation on my part, so no need for a new flame war

Back to Rose. It's been said, but if he does get reinstated, he would probably not be voted into the Hall. HOF voting has a human aspect to it that has nothing to do with stats or with laws. The Commissioner doesn't have to pay attention to any real laws or any perceived laws or rules that we might have, and either to the HOF voters. If you are disliked for any reason, even just having a bad personality, there are those who won't vote for you. If the 'mood' of the voters at the time is that some aspect of behavior is not Hall-worthy;e.g-suspected steroid use, then there are those who won't vote for you.