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#1
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Bill A.
Just two requests for you Robert: |
#2
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Robert Plancich
First of all Bill you have me at a disadvantage, what is your last name? Also, I see that your login name is "batcollector" so I am assuming that you know something about bats. Maybe you could enlighten me with respect to this Cobb bat? |
#3
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Bill A.
O.K. so we know PSAdna has blocked your e-mails just like every other reputable person in the hobby....and you have in fact had your fake autographs (more than just the Ruth) turned down and you got into some type of fight over it. |
#4
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: MW
Bill, |
#5
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Robert Plancich
I apologize for lack of knowledge on this subject. I have mistakenly assumed that the LOA that Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen issued on the Cobb bat means that Ty Cobb used the bat, but now you are telling me that it doesn't. I don't understand why Dave Bushing can't tell us if Cobb used this bat. His LOA states that Cobb's cleat marks are on the bat, if he can tell whos cleat marks are on the bat then why is it so hard for him to tell who used the bat. |
#6
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Bill A.
MW, that is a good question I have not reviewed the LOA but my understanding is althought there are positive attributes like cleat marks (typical of Cobb gamers) that are mentioned the bat is still an A-5 most likely due to the fact that 33 1/2" were not typical of documented Cobb gamers (documented gamers would include known side-written examples, examples with provenence linking them to Cobb). |
#7
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PaulPaulPaul
I'm not going to take sides on anyone's expertise because I know nothing about the subject. But Bill raised a point that I think should be displayed in neon lights. |
#8
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: jay behrens
Bill, you still keep dodging an important question that has been asked of you, what is your last name? Robert has asked you several times now and you have ignored it each time. |
#9
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
Hold on here folks, I think I am seeing Bill Clinton's deposition again (depends what the meaning of "is" is). An item auctioned as a "Ty Cobb game used bat" with a certificate of authenticity does NOT necessarily mean the seller and authenticators are representing that Ty Cobb used the bat in a game? Sorry folks I am just a dumb lawyer but I couldn't sell that verbal dance to a jury in a million years even if it was in the fine print somewhere. What am I missing here? And I agree with Robert, Bill it would enhance your credibility in all of our eyes if you did not hide behind a screen of anonymity. Robert has told us his name and who he is, so if you want us to believe you and not him (presumably the purpose of your posts or you would have just emailed Robert privately) then I think you should identify yourself and give us your credentials. |
#10
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe P.
Unlike Mr Robert Plancich, not only has he avoided giving his name, he has also DANCED around every question asked of him. |
#11
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Bill A.
Sorry, I was out for a couple hours. I am not hidding behind anything. My name is no bid deal as I really don't have any credintials other than being a vintage game used bat collector. My name is Bill Andrews. I am not at active buyer anymore. I was in the early days when they were much cheaper. |
#12
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
I make no claims for myself but I think the characterization of this group as one with "very little knowledge" that is going to be duped by Robert is extremely condescending and inappropriate. There are some extremely knowledgeable people here. In any event, the facts are not difficult for intelligent people to understand. This is memorabilia, not astrophysics. |
#13
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Bill A wrote: "Sorry if my posts have offended. I just hate to see a guy like Plancich who has no credentials make such awful accusations about people who I have found to be quite respectable and do it to an audience who has very little knowledge about the field wherein he has set up his soapbox." |
#14
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe P.
Mr. Andrews, I ditto Mr. PASJD's comment. |
#15
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Scott Elkins
I know VERY LITTLE about game used bats and other items of this nature. However, I think the people who should have to prove their side of the argument would be the person(s) authenticating this stuff! It seems to me that at least Robert KNOWS when these items were issued - it also seems these "authenticators" don't - saying items are from certain years to make them more valuable, when in reality the items were not issued until a few years after the authenticator claims from checking manufaturer's dates!!! I believe if I were to ever buy an item of this nature, I would rather have Robert's opinion on the item than one of these "experts" authenticating the stuff!!! |
#16
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: jay behrens
Bill, if Mr Bushing answers your emails, then maybe you can ask him to provide you with all his evidence that proves the DiMaggio bat was actually used during the streak. His response to you will speak volumes about your "hero". |
#17
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Bill A.
I have decided to move on. I am sure you will all applaud this. My opinion is that this Board prefers to believe Robert simply because he has weaved this web of deception. |
#18
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
But I personally wish you would stick around and engage in the process. Truth sometimes is best arrived at through an adversarial process, and I found the dialogue interesting and did not think it had been concluded. I only took exception to your presumption that people here are uninformed about memorabilia. How do you know? Maybe people collect both or follow both. In fact if you read through some old threads you will see extensive discussions of memorabilia items, and indeed Robert has taken much heat for bringing up things that were "old news" to some people here. |
#19
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe P.
Why don't you stick around, and maybe we'll both find out more about this mess? |
#20
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: MW
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#21
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: J Levine
I take exception to a few comments...first off, I personally know several board members who collect both cards and memorabilia and are extremely knowledgeable in both. Second, card collecting, especially vintage, and even more especially, pre-war vintage, does require an extensive amount of knowledge. Yes, some of the people here on the board make it look easy, but take it from me (truly, not an expert), that they have done research, written articles, examined evidence, and generally put the time and money into what they collect card wise. I have met many "new" vintage card collectors at shows who end up giving up the hobby because they don't want to do the research and educate themselves about the cards. As we all know, people make mistakes, including authenticators and grading services. The best way I found to insulate myself from getting hurt is doing the homework myself. That way, I don't blame anyone but myself if I make a mistake or get ripped off. |
#22
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: jay behrens
Bill, don't leave. It just makes you look like a pathetic Bushing puppet sent to stir things up, then running off when the heat got put on you. |
#23
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
I would love to hear PSA's explanation for that one. Guess they made a "mistake" the first time. It certainly couldn't be the case that the authenticity of an item depends on who is submitting it. |
#24
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: leon
ALL of this "LOA, COA" crap really makes me glad I don't collect memorabelia. It's hard enough sometimes to tell about cards but this is for the birds. As for Bill and Robert I hope ya'll both stay. Even though this board is primarily for cards this vintage memorabelia stuff falls as ancillary items. One thing I totally hate is the old fox feeding the chickens syndrome. The authenticators really need to do a better job of distancing themselves from the sales of these products. Kind of like the Collectors Universe auctions where they used to (and maybe still do) sell all PSA 9's and PSA 10's. Makes ya wonder...... |
#25
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
I could not agree more with Leon both on the card and the memorabilia front. If the "authenticators" had a direct financial interest in the sale of the Dimaggio streak bat, for example, as I believe has been claimed, that really does make one wonder. |
#26
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Robert Plancich
I used to become annoyed by these "hit & run" tactics but I have now just learned that this is "standard fare" when addressing the subjects of "experts" and "authenticators". |
#27
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Scott
I bought this bat that was supposedly given by Cobb to a fan in 1911 - it also appears to have cleat marks all over it. The writing also looks vintage and in keeping with what a Cobb fan might put on the bat - the collector supposedly wrote notations like this on most items he picked up. He died in the early '60s at a very old age and this bat was picked up at his estate sale by a very reputable collector who I buy equipment from occasionally. |
#28
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: MW
Can any of the experts (Bill Andrews?) comment on runscott's bat? What would be the significance of the inscription and cleat marks? |
#29
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: dennis
scott, sell the bat to an authenticator for say $30,000. then he can authenticate it,give it the stamp of game used,find a pic of cobb holding a bat,any bat will do,he then can give to an auction house and sell it for lots more to the "high rollers" and you can then get a piece of the huge profits...sounds like a plan? |
#30
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe P.
Probably hanging upside down and Stabilized with the rest of his boys. |
#31
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Scott
But the email address he posted in this thread is invalid. I really need to know - my grandmother needs a pancreas transplant...God bless. |
#32
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
I think it is not only a game-used Ty Cobb bat (or certainly could become one in the hands of the appropriate auction house) but also an ultra rare decal bat, which decal can still be seen in the grain marks and as can easily be seen by comparison to a photo of a decal bat except perhaps by unsophisticated members of this group who only know cards and are dupes for Robert's propaganda. I also think it was the bat Cobb used to get the hit that put him on base when he broke the stolen base record, that is obvious from the distinctive pattern of the cleat marks and from carbon-dating by an independent expert. |
#33
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Robert Plancich
Email me and I will give you the contact information of several people that you can contact to find out about this bat. |
#34
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe K.
Hi Scott- Does the bat have any label or any other visible markings on barrel or end of knob? What is the length? I won't pretend to be able to authenticate it(like some) but let's start by first seeing if it could even be a 1911 pro model. Also who supposedly wrote the inscription...the collector, the fan or Cobb? Just wondering because it looks like it is written with a type of bmarker they didn't have in 1911. |
#35
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Scott
I'll email you with more info - it is definitely vintage ink. It's like the ink you actually dip a pen into. Also, I'm expecting the 1911-15 bat in the mail today, so I'll update you on that also. |
#36
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Scott
This one doesn't have the cleat marks that Cobb gamers are famous for, but other than that I think we might have a winner! |
#37
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: PASJD
My understanding from "Batman" as Joe P. calls him is that there was a "find" of game-used Ty Cobb bats a few years back in, of all places, the "rafters of an old barn." This piece could well be from that find. Too bad the owner "oiled" and "repaired" it or is "stabilization" (or should we say "stableization" in this case as we are dealing with an old barn) an accepted practice in the sale of game-used bats? |
#38
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe K.
If we ignore the story and stop wishing for miracles, then JF Hillerich Son 40 "TC" is a real nice store model bat and a very nice collectable, especially at 36in. Lets hope whoever gets it will just appreciate it for what it is, not for what it could be (but never proven). I wouldn't mine pulling a 40 TC out of the rafters of my barn (if i had one) gamer or not. |
#39
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Plancich....Two Requests
Posted By: Joe P.
Well done PASJD. |
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