Another Probstein LOL

[Exhibitman]

I agree that exposing these shills over and over is helpful to the people who might not have read the past exposes. At least no one on N54 who reads one of these threads can get ripped off by Probstein or PWCC but claim that they did not know. It may be dull to hear what is effectively the same story again, but the solution is not to read it. The titles are clear enough.

As for eBay, don't hold your breath: its management actively encourages shilling. Used to be a piece of cake to figure out who was shilling; just cross-reference the shilling account with the seller's account. That is how Broadway Rick got nailed:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3078735/

eBay tackled the challenge posed by shill bidders by hiding the identities of the underbidders. It greatly reduced the number of complaints about shilling not because the activity ceased but because no one could prove it any longer.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I agree that exposing these shills over and over is helpful to the people who might not have read the past exposes. At least no one on N54 who reads one of these threads can get ripped off by Probstein or PWCC but claim that they did not know. It may be dull to hear what is effectively the same story again, but the solution is not to read it. The titles are clear enough.

As for eBay, don't hold your breath: its management actively encourages shilling. Used to be a piece of cake to figure out who was shilling; just cross-reference the shilling account with the seller's account. That is how Broadway Rick got nailed:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3078735/

eBay tackled the challenge posed by shill bidders by hiding the identities of the underbidders. It greatly reduced the number of complaints about shilling not because the activity ceased but because no one could prove it any longer.

Great post, Adam. I can't help but believe ebay will eventually face legal repercussions for encouraging illegal activity.

[drcy]

In a defense of eBay, I'm sure one reason they block bidder ids was to prevent off eBay sales. I think trying to prevent this was legitimate on their part, as many buyers and sellers abused the system that way.

Having said that, one essential eBay newbie tip I used to give was never to bid in an auction that hid bidder ids, as the practice was mostly used to prevent nefarious activity including shilling and to prevent others from tipping off bidders that an item was a fake or a scam. Then eBay turned and made all bidder ids private.

If it were up to me, bidder ids would be shown, but, as is often the case, eBay users who tried to game the system (breaking the user agreement by using eBay as a cheap advertising for off site sales) are part of the reason eBay hides the ids.

In short, every one's going to Hell. Oh sorry, Leon, I meant to say Heck.

[hangman62]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

[Rob D.]

I wonder if eBay had never shown bidders identities in the first place (email addresses in the early days, followed by user IDs), would people object now to not being able to see them? The reason I wonder is because I don't know of a single auction house in our hobby that shows bidder ids of any kind in its online auctions. Yet that doesn't seem to be an issue for most people, but the inability to see identities on eBay is.

[bobbyw8469]

I have yet to hear of a collector who was pleased to learn his item sells for 40% less than what he paid.

Happens all the time. Welcome to Ebay. I have actually lost more than 40% on items before. Nature of the beast when you run 99 cent auctions.

[drcy]

I should clarify. When I said everyone's going to Hell, I didn't mean me. I'm clean. Or at least I apologized profusely.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by drcy

I should clarify. When I said everyone's going to Hell, I didn't mean me. I'm clean. Or at least I apologized profusely.

Well, it's easier to ask for forgiveness, than to beg for permission.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by hangman62

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

I've seen some idiotic posts on Net 54 but this one might take the cake, right up there with San Quentin.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by hangman62

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

Ralph gets it. Thanks for posting this, Ralph.

When my Mom would catch me with my hand in the cookie jar, I always argued that after she punished my sister, I was more than willing to submit to a similar punishment. Funny, I got my ass beat anyway.

Perhaps I should have used the argument that my Sister was fat and happy from all the stolen cookie calories, so she must be doing something right.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by hangman62

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

Is this post a joke? Is it April fools day again?

1. He gets his hands on loads of stuff.- Well good for him. But it has nothing to do with what is being talked about.
2. Prices are prices- Most idiotic statement, in the context of this thread, that I have seen in a while. The problem is, prices we see aren't real prices, they are shilled. So, no, prices aren't prices.
3. Cry babys (sic) keep bringing up sour grapes. Yes, and each time a bank robber robs a bank, darn it, it makes the news again.
4. Big auctions protecting their rare items? Of course, it's called a reserve or a higher opening bid. Just like a consignor could tell Rick if he wanted to. That would be the moral and legal way to do it. And yes, there are a few hobbyists in a lot of hot water for doing it the wrong way.
5. The guy sells a ton of stuff, he must be doing something right. I think Rick is probably a very hard worker and is smart. A little more due diligence, when issues are brought to his attention, is all some of us are asking ie...ban bidders with a gazillion retractions and other issues. And maybe part of the reason he gets stuff is that the consignors know they can protect their consignments by shilling.


And I just want to make sure you are serious in believing what you wrote? It's hard for me to imagine anyone could really believe what you wrote. It's freaking crazy.


.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Leon

Is this post a joke? Is it April fools day again?

1. He gets his hands on loads of stuff.- Well good for him. But it has nothing to do with what is being talked about.
2. Prices are prices- Most idiotic statement, in the context of this thread, that I have seen in a while. The problem is, prices we see aren't real prices, they are shilled. So, no, prices aren't prices.
3. Cry babys (sic) keep bringing up sour grapes. Yes, and each time a bank robber robs a bank, darn it, it makes the news again.
4. Big auctions protecting their rare items? Of course, it's called a reserve or a higher opening bid. Just like a consignor could tell Rick if he wanted to. That would be the moral and legal way to do it. And yes, there are a few hobbyists in a lot of hot water for doing it the wrong way.
5. The guy sells a ton of stuff, he must be doing something right. I think Rick is probably a very hard worker and is smart. A little more due diligence, when issues are brought to his attention, is all some of us are asking ie...ban bidders with a gazillion retractions and other issues. And maybe part of the reason he gets stuff is that the consignors know they can protect their consignments by shilling.


And I just want to make sure you are serious in believing what you wrote? It's hard for me to imagine anyone could really believe what you wrote. It's freaking crazy.


.

Leon- I want to ask a stupid question, nothing to do with the majority of your post....How many people on this board, being 100% completely honest, have either engaged in shilling or had it done or their behalf? I'm just curious, be honest....I personally know of 2 fellow collectors (nameless) who told me they did in the hopes of getting higher prices for their cards....Would it be fair to say that this is a plague to our hobby?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Leon- I want to ask a stupid question, nothing to do with the majority of your post....How many people on this board, being 100% completely honest, have either engaged in shilling or had it done or their behalf? I'm just curious, be honest....I personally know of 2 fellow collectors (nameless) who told me they did in the hopes of getting higher prices for their cards....Would it be fair to say that this is a plague to our hobby?

Shilling? I don't do it. I haven't asked anyone to bid on my stuff before either. Maybe that is the reason I lose money often when I sell? But to answer your question, yes I think it's prevalent and I think it's a big problem. I don't know if I would call it a plague?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Leon- I want to ask a stupid question, nothing to do with the majority of your post....How many people on this board, being 100% completely honest, have either engaged in shilling or had it done or their behalf? I'm just curious, be honest....I personally know of 2 fellow collectors (nameless) who told me they did in the hopes of getting higher prices for their cards....Would it be fair to say that this is a plague to our hobby?

I have been buying/selling on ebay since 96 or 97 and I have never shilled any auction for myself or anyone else. I also have never retracted a single bid in that time.

As far as what Rick could do, I think he should have a 1 strike and you are out policy for anyone that shills there items he is selling.

[CW]

Originally Posted by hangman62

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

wow, this post has so much fail I don't even know where to begin!

[Sean1125]

Does anyone have suggestions to help?

Since some of you seem to think consigners are the only ones Rick listens to I will be happy to voice quality suggestions to him.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Does anyone have suggestions to help?

Since some of you seem to think consigners are the only ones Rick listens to I will be happy to voice quality suggestions to him.

Sean- Lets start with an easy one. Anyone with more than 7 bid retractions in the last year can't bid with him. Keep it simple, that is all I am asking.

Most good ebayers, of which I hope to include myself, haven't had that many in 10+ yrs. I think I might have had 1, in over 14 yrs, but honestly can't even remember that, specifically.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by hangman62

...good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?

Just the good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since they took it online

Screwin' with bids
Paddin' the sales
Someday the bidders
Might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law should allow

Just the good ol' boys
Wouldn't change if they could
Fixin' the system
Like a true Internet Auction Hood

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Just the good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since they took it online

Screwin' with bids
Paddin' the sales
Someday the bidders
Might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law should allow

Just the good ol' boys
Wouldn't change if they could
Fixin' the system
Like a true Internet Auction Hood

Damn Eric, I've got to ask, how long did it take you to write that??

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Damn Eric, I've got to ask, how long did it take you to write that??

Kevin,

It took me just a moment. Please know that I do not have a horse in this race. I have never placed a bid with the auctioneers mentioned in this thread.

Best,

Eric

[Acollector]

Originally Posted by hangman62

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

I'm sure a lot of people liked (insert any evil dictator through history) because none of their relatives were killed by him and they were able to get a job during his reign while disregarding some of that other stuff he was doing to others because it did not affect them. I guess with your logic, (Insert any evil dictator through history) was great and must have been doing something right since he was in power and plenty of people were cheering at his speeches, therefore what could go wrong? People like you enable criminals and help make them more successful while everyone else gets screwed over thanks to you.

Fraud is illegal regardless of whether it gets you a good price on what you want. Using your logic you would be ok with it if a car you were buying came to you at a good price because it was stolen from someone else as long as the price was a steal.

You most likely think we have an honest government running as well since they got elected, they must be doing something right. Keep being blind, it will bite you pretty hard one day.

It was reading posts like yours a few months ago that got me screwed over dealing with him.

[Seattle799]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Seattle799

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Well done!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Seattle799

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Chiming in late, but thanks for that nugget of information. Very true.