Name 3 HOF'ers you don't think belong

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Ron had a better stretch than many think but it wasn't up to the stretch Koufax had IMHO.

Gooden had a great stretch to start his career too. Koufax only won 20 three times.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Gooden had a great stretch to start his career too. Koufax only won 20 three times.

who cares about pitcher wins??? Koufax had 3 9+WAR seasons and his last 6 seasons he had an ERA under 2 and an FIP of like 2.05 that's elite levels of elite pitching.

plus 54.5 WAR in only a little over 10 year career is pretty damned impressive stuff

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

who cares about pitcher wins??? Koufax had 3 9+WAR seasons and his last 6 seasons he had an ERA under 2 and an FIP of like 2.05 that's elite levels of elite pitching.

plus 54.5 WAR in only a little over 10 year career is pretty damned impressive stuff

He ranks 56th in WAR7. Still impressed? And I see 49.0 WAR next to his name on Baseball Reference.

[begsu1013]

1. pete
2. re-pete
3. pistol pete

[nat]

?
53.2 bWAR for Koufax (one of us is looking at the wrong column)

30 wins above average (WAA)

Don Sutton has 23 WAA (to pick someone with the opposite career arc)
Drysdale at 28
or how about Nolan Ryan with 35

WAR isn't a straight measure of value. WAA isn't either. It's more important to a team to get production all at once than it is to get it spread out (because winning a pennant requires above average performance; in general someone who is inconsistently great will win you more pennants than someone who is consistently good). Koufax's WAR total is low for the hall of fame, but since he squeezed that WAR into so few seasons, I'm fairly comfortable saying that it produced as much value as Don Sutton's much higher 68. Koufax isn't the greatest pitcher in the hall, but he's not a terrible mistake either.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is what I am looking at, maybe it's a mistake.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_P.shtml

117 Sandy Koufax HOF 49.0 46.1 47.5

I agree his dominant half decade was so overwhelming he should be in. I do think however in popular opinion he tends to be overrated due to the glamour factor.

[Rich Klein]

George Highpockets Kelly
Fred Lindstrom
Chick Hafey