Topps Venezuelans - Page 4

TheNightmanCometh · #**151** 10-08-2016, 07:18 PM

I got them from a new guy just posting on eBay. All of his '59s are in great shape. There's another guy posting a bunch of '59s, but his prices are so high it feels more like he's just showing off his collection.

DBesse27 · #**152** 10-08-2016, 09:17 PM

Cool. I don't collect 59's or 67's. I collect 64 and 68 mostly, but I sprinkle in 60, 62 and 66.

TheNightmanCometh · #**153** 10-08-2016, 10:22 PM

No Yaz's in those years?

DBesse27 · #**154** 10-09-2016, 06:49 AM

No Yaz in 59. He has a 67 but I hate that set.

TheNightmanCometh · #**155** 10-09-2016, 11:52 AM

As do I. I seriously question whether it's a Topps product. So much so that I've refused to collect the '67 set for my run.

DBesse27 · #**156** 10-09-2016, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

As do I. I seriously question whether it's a Topps product. So much so that I've refused to collect the '67 set for my run.

I question the same.

TheNightmanCometh · #**157** 10-18-2016, 11:09 PM

*Ignore

TheNightmanCometh · #**158** 10-19-2016, 01:39 PM

Happy to say that last night I picked up a '59 Hartman and Mantilla and I have officially completed my '59 Topps Braves VZ run, unless you wanna count gray backs LOL.

Now all I need is the '68 Aaron and I will have completed my entire VZ base card Braves run!

DBesse27 · #**159** 10-19-2016, 02:49 PM

Wow, only one card from complete?? That's amazing!

TheNightmanCometh · #**160** 10-19-2016, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Wow, only one card from complete?? That's amazing!

Thanks! When I get a chance I'll post everything I've collected thus far. Just missing that dang Aaron. I hope it isn't elusive. I say that knowing that since I've started collecting VZs I've only seen one and the seller wanted over $1000 for it.

kilo · #**161** 10-24-2016, 02:11 PM

couldnt find the info i need anywhere else, so it seems appropriate here, even though its an older thread.

how do i tell a 1966 topps venezuelan card from a topps regular issue? some seem to have the T.C.G. line and some dont. im at a loss.....

help?

--mike kilo.

irv · #**162** 10-24-2016, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilo

couldnt find the info i need anywhere else, so it seems appropriate here, even though its an older thread.

how do i tell a 1966 topps venezuelan card from a topps regular issue? some seem to have the T.C.G. line and some dont. im at a loss.....

help?

--mike kilo.

http://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/bas...ela-topps/6061

1966 Topps Venezuelan

Continuing with even-numbered years only, the next Topps Venezuelan set was 1966. This was another 370-card set matching the first 4 series. The backs are the only distinguishing feature – they are noticeably darker.

Hall of famers (29): Willie Mays, Phil Niekro, Jim Hunter, Billy Herman MG, Mickey Mantle, Carl Yastrzemski, Tony Perez, Red Schoendienst, Sandy Koufax, Ernie Banks, Walter Alston MG, Harmon Killebrew, Lou Brock, Jim Palmer, Orlando Cepeda, Whitey Ford, Joe Morgan, Eddie Mathews, Bill Mazeroski, Willie Stargell, Don Sutton, Roberto Clemente, Frank Robinson, Bob Gibson, Hank Aaron (subset only), Willie McCovey (subset), Billy Williams (subset), Juan Marichal (subset), Don Drysdale (subset)

Ford C. Frick award winner Bob Uecker also has a card in this set.

kilo · #**163** 10-24-2016, 02:38 PM

thank you, i would have never even thought of that. guess my Mick is a US-issue, as the "pink" on the back isnt nearly as dark as some of the photos i've seen........

--mike kilo.

Bestdj777 · #**164** 10-24-2016, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilo

thank you, i would have never even thought of that. guess my Mick is a US-issue, as the "pink" on the back isnt nearly as dark as some of the photos i've seen........

--mike kilo.

Mike,

Send me a picture or post one if you want a second set of eyes on it.

Chris

Manny Trillo · #**165** 10-24-2016, 08:10 PM

What is a Venezuelan card?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

DBesse27 · #**166** 10-24-2016, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

What is a Venezuelan card?

A card issued in Venezuela.

Manny Trillo · #**167** 10-24-2016, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBesse27

A card issued in Venezuela.

That's odd, they're not printed in Spanish.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

DBesse27 · #**168** 10-24-2016, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

That's odd, they're not printed in Spanish

Most aren't. Some of them say "hecho in Venezuela." And the 67's are in Spanish, but there's a lot of evidence those weren't actually issued by Topps.

Manny Trillo · #**169** 10-24-2016, 08:59 PM

So if they're not print in Spanish how do you know they are Venezuelan

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

DBesse27 · #**170** 10-24-2016, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

So if they're not print in Spanish how do you know they are Venezuelan

Depends on the year. I'll break it all down for you tomorrow. The 64's are the easiest. Backs of American 64's are in Orange, Venies in black.

Manny Trillo · #**171** 10-24-2016, 09:46 PM

Thanks it sounds like a counterfeit operation

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

irv · #**172** 10-25-2016, 12:23 PM

Some more Venezuelan info.

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...AyNDgxNTc0MwS2

TheNightmanCometh · #**173** 10-25-2016, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

Thanks it sounds like a counterfeit operation

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

It's not a counterfeit operation. You can tell the difference because the card stock used to make the cards is noticeably cheaper in quality. The cards, when held in hand come off as very fragile. Also, none of the VZs have any gloss on them like their American counterparts. Topps made them to take advantage of the growing popularity of baseball in Venezuela. Those are the #1 ways to tell the difference between a VZ Topps card and an American Topps card.

Now, if you're talking about the '67s, oh ya, those are counterfeit, IMO.

TheNightmanCometh · #**174** 10-30-2016, 07:53 PM

Here are the '59s I got.

DBesse27 · #**175** 10-30-2016, 07:58 PM

Wow those are great!

Charlos13 · #**176** 10-30-2016, 08:13 PM

Nice additions how's close are you to completing your team set.
Also do you guys know of any body that does psa group submissions by any chance?

DBesse27 · #**177** 10-30-2016, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlos13

do you guys know of any body that does psa group submissions by any chance?

I do once in a while, but I don't have one brewing

Charlos13 · #**178** 10-30-2016, 08:44 PM

Ok thanks

TheNightmanCometh · #**179** 10-31-2016, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlos13

Nice additions how's close are you to completing your team set.
Also do you guys know of any body that does psa group submissions by any chance?

As of now I'm two cards short. I messed up my master list and deleted a card I don't have, so I need the '59 Bruton and the '68 Aaron. I have a lead on the Bruton, but the Aaron is gonna be my white whale. I've only ever seen one on eBay and I was offered to purchase another one through the yahoo vz group, but it was a psa 6 and they wanted mid-hundreds for it and that's way outside my budget at the moment.

bnorth · #**180** 10-31-2016, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

Now, if you're talking about the '67s, oh ya, those are counterfeit, IMO.

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

DBesse27 · #**181** 10-31-2016, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

Bestdj777 · #**182** 10-31-2016, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

DBesse27 · #**183** 10-31-2016, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

Agreed.

TheNightmanCometh · #**184** 10-31-2016, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

It's been awhile since I've done any research. Let me look around and talk to a couple of people and I'll get back to you on that.

TheNightmanCometh · #**185** 10-31-2016, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

And to add to that, no other Topps VZ year has Venezuelan League cards.

TheNightmanCometh · #**186** 10-31-2016, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

I am trying to collect a Braves Topps base card master set, which includes American, Venezuelan, and Canadian Topps cards, so for me I discount the '67 set from that list because I don't believe they were made or distributed by Topps at all.

Bestdj777 · #**187** 11-01-2016, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

I am trying to collect a Braves Topps base card master set, which includes American, Venezuelan, and Canadian Topps cards, so for me I discount the '67 set from that list because I don't believe they were made or distributed by Topps at all.

That makes sense. I excluded the Mantle Mask from my run as I don't believe it was produced by Topps.

bnorth · #**188** 11-01-2016, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

It's been awhile since I've done any research. Let me look around and talk to a couple of people and I'll get back to you on that.

Thank you, it would be greatly appreciated. Do you believe them to be printed in the proper time frame or are they a more modern fantasy set?

I understand there is a printer in Venezuela that was/is still printing the Venezuelan Topps cards and aging them. Not just the 67's but all years. I think there was even a thread on here about it warning people about the Venezuelan eBay seller that was peddling them.

hcv123 · #**189** 11-01-2016, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

Thanks! When I get a chance I'll post everything I've collected thus far. Just missing that dang Aaron. I hope it isn't elusive. I say that knowing that since I've started collecting VZs I've only seen one and the seller wanted over $1000 for it.

The 1968 VZ Aaron is a super tough card. I have seen only a handful over the years. I am lucky to own one although the condition leaves much to be desired. Now, about a 1968 VZ Ryan rookie.............

hcv123 · #**190** 11-01-2016, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

The 1967 Venezuelan's are some of the toughest cards to find. I would think that Topps would have gone after any company infringing on their property - namely the cards they printed in 1967. There is evidence of packs and an album like other years. Perhaps like so many of the test issues of the era, Topps was testing some new ideas with the set. In all cases (even if it wasn't issued by Topps) the 67 Venezuelans are a BEAST to collect. It is certainly convenient (if it's not Topps - then I don't choose to collect it) to make a case for it not being a Topps product.

Howard

TheNightmanCometh · #**191** 11-01-2016, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Thank you, it would be greatly appreciated. Do you believe them to be printed in the proper time frame or are they a more modern fantasy set?

I understand there is a printer in Venezuela that was/is still printing the Venezuelan Topps cards and aging them. Not just the 67's but all years. I think there was even a thread on here about it warning people about the Venezuelan eBay seller that was peddling them.

Considering the current political and social climate over there, I don't think anyone is printing fakes today, nor have I heard of anything like that in the past.

TheNightmanCometh · #**192** 11-01-2016, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

The 1967 Venezuelan's are some of the toughest cards to find. I would think that Topps would have gone after any company infringing on their property - namely the cards they printed in 1967. There is evidence of packs and an album like other years. Perhaps like so many of the test issues of the era, Topps was testing some new ideas with the set. In all cases (even if it wasn't issued by Topps) the 67 Venezuelans are a BEAST to collect. It is certainly convenient (if it's not Topps - then I don't choose to collect it) to make a case for it not being a Topps product.

Howard

I don't think there would be much Topps could do if someone in Venezuela released a set that looked similar to Topps set. Here in this thread someone posted that the '67 set isn't listed as a Topps set; if I remember correctly.

TheNightmanCometh · #**193** 11-01-2016, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

The 1968 VZ Aaron is a super tough card. I have seen only a handful over the years. I am lucky to own one although the condition leaves much to be desired. Now, about a 1968 VZ Ryan rookie.............

Two questions. Are you interested in selling it and for how much? As long as there's no paper loss on the front condition doesn't matter to me. Message me with a number.

#**194** 11-18-2016, 02:15 AM

If anyone here is interested, I put up a list on the BST of Venezuelan dupes I have for trade from 1967 MLB, 1964, and 1970 Ovenca.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....25#post1603025

TheNightmanCometh · #**195** 11-19-2016, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewEnglandBaseBallist

If anyone here is interested, I put up a list on the BST of Venezuelan dupes I have for trade from 1967 MLB, 1964, and 1970 Ovenca.

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....25#post1603025

I can't help but to think you're a sadist. Only a sadist would try to collect the '67 VZ set.

I wish you good luck, though. I have a '67 Carty, but I didn't see it on your needs list. If you need it send me a message and we can work something out.

hcv123 · #**196** 11-19-2016, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

Two questions. Are you interested in selling it and for how much? As long as there's no paper loss on the front condition doesn't matter to me. Message me with a number.

Not for sale at this time. All the best.

TheNightmanCometh · #**197** 11-19-2016, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hcv123

Not for sale at this time. All the best.

I figured as much. If it ever is, let me know.

DBesse27 · #**198** 01-10-2017, 08:28 PM

Big Fat Venezuelan Mail Day:

I'm a big fan of Mathews. I know Ryan already has one, but I'm happy to add this one to my collection.

My 2nd 64 Venz McCovey. Have his regular card too.

Dick/Richie Allen was no slouch! ROY in 64, MVP in 72, 8-time All Star, six 30+ HR seasons. Finished his career with .292 batting average and 351 HRs. Career OPS .912

If you haven't yet, please check out my 64 Venz registry. Only 15 cards so far (I have a Gilliam I need to sub), but loaded with HOFers and stars:

http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistr...timeset/215107

TheNightmanCometh · #**199** 01-11-2017, 04:21 PM

Excellent cards! The Mathews looks great.

Thecafewha · #**200** 01-11-2017, 07:16 PM

Great cards.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Topps Venezuelans	RayBShotz	Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)	22	06-08-2016 12:15 PM
WTB Mantles - 52 Topps; Venezuelans; JD McCarthy	Bestdj777	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	8	08-31-2013 02:38 PM
1962 topps venezuelans needed	sflayank	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	06-04-2010 09:13 AM
1950s-1960s Baseball Grab Bag with Topps Venezuelans and Autos	Orioles1954	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	0	08-18-2009 04:57 PM
2 Topps Venezuelans wanted badly	Archive	1950 to 1959 Baseball cards- B/S/T	1	04-20-2008 10:13 AM