NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used > Autograph Forum- Primarily Sports

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-25-2017, 01:21 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default Help appreciated determining if this is an original or a copy

Edit: Thanks for the responses.

To this point I have been unable to determine if it is a copy or an original through the glass. The question now is if I try to get a refund from the person I bought it from, or the open frame and make a better determination, but then if it is a copy I will have a much harder time returning it since it will not be in the same condition I purchased it in.

Thanks!

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

Hey all,

I picked this up from a seller who said he bought it from a Twins charity auction and it is an original lineup card. When I received it the card looked good so I had not second thoughts, but a buddy messaged me informing me that copies were made, some of which people may be passing on as original. (Link to a listing of a copy below).

My question is how to distinguish between a copy and an original. I looked at the copy I have under the light and it definitely did not look like it was printed as the ink seems to vary like a pen would, and there are areas where the pen seems to have given out and you can still see a mark.

If anyone can help with determining this item (not sure if the pictures will be big enough) to let me know ways that I can better tell I would really appreciate it.



https://huntauctions.com/live/imagev...t_qual=&closed
Attached Images
File Type: jpg File_000.jpg (7.2 KB, 391 views)
File Type: jpg File_002.jpg (6.5 KB, 396 views)
File Type: jpg File_003.jpg (9.2 KB, 395 views)
File Type: jpg File_005.jpg (18.6 KB, 398 views)
File Type: jpg File_006.jpg (17.6 KB, 389 views)
File Type: jpg Mauer, Joe Debut.jpg (76.8 KB, 392 views)

Last edited by Topnotchsy; 06-28-2017 at 02:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:03 PM
Bigdaddy's Avatar
Bigdaddy Bigdaddy is offline
+0m J()rd@N
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,929
Default

Without seeing it in hand, it is hard to tell. But the Hunt auction says there were 777 copies made, so the fact that there is only one original and 777 copies out there put the odds heavily in the corner that this is one of those 777.
__________________
Working Sets:
Baseball-
T206 SLers - Virginia League (-1)
1952 Topps - low numbers (-1)
1954 Bowman (-3)
1964 Topps Giants auto'd (-2)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-25-2017, 02:19 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddy View Post
Without seeing it in hand, it is hard to tell. But the Hunt auction says there were 777 copies made, so the fact that there is only one original and 777 copies out there put the odds heavily in the corner that this is one of those 777.
Thanks for the response.

The listing does indicate that they were numbered out of 777. The picture in the auction is vague but it seems like it is numbered on the front under the Indians available pitchers, and that is not the case on my copy so hoping that is not the case.

What would I be looking for as signs it is either real or copied?

Last edited by Topnotchsy; 06-25-2017 at 02:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:01 PM
mcgwirecom's Avatar
mcgwirecom mcgwirecom is offline
R@nda!! H@hn
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hatboro, Pa
Posts: 1,041
Default

Wouldn't there usually be an MLB hologram numbered sticker on an authentic lineup card?
__________________
My life didn't turn out the way I expected...Roy Hobbs

Baseball's hard. You can love it but it doesn't always love you back. It's like dating a German chick...
Billy Bob Thornton-Bad News Bears
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-25-2017, 03:10 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

If there are no indentations from pen writing on the line up card then it is a copy.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-25-2017, 04:20 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgwirecom View Post
Wouldn't there usually be an MLB hologram numbered sticker on an authentic lineup card?
Not sure they were as careful to have holograms on things back then though don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
If there are no indentations from pen writing on the line up card then it is a copy.
It's really hard to tell through the glass. The writing seems to have been with a fairly soft tipped marker, so not sure how much indentation there would be, and through the glass I can't tell.

If anyone has any other thoughts please let me know. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-26-2017, 09:43 AM
Mr. Zipper Mr. Zipper is offline
Steve Zarelli
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,603
Default

There is no way to tell through a scan. You need to take it out of the frame and determine if the ink is "on top" of the card, or part of the card. Given all the writing and ink dots all over the card, it should be really easy to tell in-hand if it is live ink or printed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-28-2017, 10:08 AM
drcy's Avatar
drcy drcy is offline
David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,484
Default

I would assume, without a dot matrix pattern (which a copy might have-- look under close magnification), the 'handwriting' ink would be solid throughout in a copy, while in real handwriting will change in ink density/tone throughout.

Last edited by drcy; 06-28-2017 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:11 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default

Hey all,

Thanks for the responses.

To this point I have been unable to determine if it is a copy or an original through the glass.

My question now is: I have 2 options. I can try to get a refund from the person I bought it from, or I can try and open it and make a better determination but then if it is a copy I will have a much harder time returning it since it will not be in the same condition I purchased it in.

Any advice?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-28-2017, 02:36 PM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

Is there something that would keep you from putting the frame back together?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-28-2017, 08:29 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Is there something that would keep you from putting the frame back together?
Pretty sure the seller would use that as a reason to not take the item back, though not sure.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:26 AM
packs packs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,831
Default

How would you even be able to tell? All you'd be doing is opening the frame and then closing it. To me that's no different from taking a card out of a screw down and putting it back in, no?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-29-2017, 05:42 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
How would you even be able to tell? All you'd be doing is opening the frame and then closing it. To me that's no different from taking a card out of a screw down and putting it back in, no?
Honestly I'm not sure since I've never done this before. There's some paper covering on the back that I would probably have to rip off but it may be as simple as that...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-29-2017, 07:41 PM
mr2686 mr2686 is offline
Mike Rich@rds0n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ca
Posts: 3,188
Default

The paper can be re-done at any frame shop for minimal cost.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-05-2017, 06:06 PM
Topnotchsy Topnotchsy is offline
Jeff Lazarus
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,211
Default

I compared this to another lineup card that I knew was authentic. I didn't open up the frame so there were some limits but here is what I learned:

1) The markers they use do not make an indentation

2) Some of the markers can be seen through the paper in the real copy (in a copied one I imagine this would not the case)

3) The giveaway for me was interestingly white-out. Many lineup cards have an area that was whited-out. On a copy there are faded sections but obviously the white-out itself does not copy.

Hope people find this helpful.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Original copy of "The Monster" by Bill Heitman JMANOS Tobacco (T) cards, except T206 B/S/T 2 01-27-2013 06:34 PM
1910 The Book of Baseball, original copy Archive Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 0 04-23-2009 07:47 AM
Ebay Original copy of T206 "The Monster" a must reference guide Archive Ebay, Auction and other Venues Announcement- B/S/T 0 03-11-2009 10:09 PM
Original copy of T206 The Monster By Bill Heitman Archive Baseball Memorabilia B/S/T 0 03-01-2009 05:38 AM
Determining Value?? Archive Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 1 01-19-2008 04:27 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:15 PM.


ebay GSB