Closing Tonight: Love of the Game Auctions

[tombocombo]

This method plays on emotionally tired people! Typically rational, and logical decisions are difficult at best at 4:30 a.m. Sending emails at 1:54 am and 5:55 am to stimulate further bidding? If this were a once a year auction with many exciting lots done solely on an annual basis, maybe this would generate a buzz and fun filled night. I'd even order a late night pizza! Realistically I will need two, or three days to sync back to regular sleep. The current LOTG format does have a future, just has to be refined. At 15 pulling an all nighter was intriguing, at 52 maybe not so appealing. With all due respect my opinion on this matter may seem harsh; however if some of the suggestions are at least thought out it would be much appreciated.
tom killeen

[insidethewrapper]

If nobody has bid on a certain item for 30 minutes, close it, seems simple to me.

[prestigecollectibles]

I think a lot of people don't realize that the auction format is often determined by the company hosting the auction site and not the individual AH. I use Createauction, the same as RMY, REA, Memory Lane, Lelands, etc. The whole platform is the same for each AH. We can not see autobids and the auctions are set to close when there are no bids for 15 minutes. We can manually end the auction if we want but that is the only other option.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

I think a lot of people don't realize that the auction format is often determined by the company hosting the auction site and not the individual AH. I use Createauction, the same as RMY, REA, Memory Lane, Lelands, etc. The whole platform is the same for each AH. We can not see autobids and the auctions are set to close when there are no bids for 15 minutes. We can manually end the auction if we want but that is the only other option.

That's pretty interesting. I never would have assumed the platform could be so inflexible. Maybe it needs to be requested at the auction house level from the programmers.

The platform is the nicest to navigate of any that I've dealt with, so definitely understand using it.

On a separate note, I keep peeking at your auctions hoping that a nice 1931 Tour of Japan ball will show up so I can upgrade mine... I used to own a gorgeous copy but (regrettably) sold it.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

I think a lot of people don't realize that the auction format is often determined by the company hosting the auction site and not the individual AH. I use Createauction, the same as RMY, REA, Memory Lane, Lelands, etc. The whole platform is the same for each AH. We can not see autobids and the auctions are set to close when there are no bids for 15 minutes. We can manually end the auction if we want but that is the only other option.

You can also do like REA and require initial bids to be in by noon and close the auction no later than midnight.

[pawpawdiv9]

REA is like Xmas.
When does the INVOICES show up? I have yet to get a email or able to pay on their LOTG site.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

If nobody has bid on a certain item for 30 minutes, close it, seems simple to me.

Mike's comment makes a lot of sense. Al, can your software be adjusted to allow individual auction lots to end in this fashion?

It's been a long time since I participated in a major auction. LOTG's site and navigation is simply superb. The process was excellent throughtout. Kudos to their ability to provide me with outbid notices.

Be that as it may, I go back to Mike's suggestion to close a given lot if nobody has bid on it for 30 minutes. I was a determined bidder, and kept going to a bit after 6 0'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, when someone threw in another bid. I had to physically give up, and give it up to my Lord Jesus. May His will be done. I had to be at church come noon. At 63, I just couldn't hold out any longer.

Funny, later that same day, about 9 PM, I went out for a 3-mile power walk. I had chosen one of my favorite cross-country routes. It was nearing dusk, but I was also determined to get a good walk it. At about 3 1/2 laps of the 5 I was planning to do, I thought to myself, "wow, I've never been this tired at 3 1/2 laps." Then it occurred to me, "oh yeah, I was up 'til 6:03 this morning fighting it out at the auction!" I kept walking hard, and believe me, I do not stroll through the park. My heart was pounding and the sweat was just pouring off me. I live in northern Indiana below Lake Michigan, where it's hot and humid. At this time of evening it was really nice, but I was stonkered, having forgetten about all those hours at the computer keeping tabs on the LOTG item I deeply wanted.

It was worth it because I won the item; had I stayed up all those hours and lost it, I would have been demoralized. Love of the Game puts on a great auction, with just this one caveat. You had better be well-rested prior to the event. Al, love ya man, but please, pretty please, listen to Mike (insidethewrapper). Go get Walter O'Brien at Scorpion to help you adjust and re-program your auction format.

Cheers, to one and all. ---Brian Powell

[spacktrack]

Obviously I don't own the auction house in question, but I do own an auction house. I consider REA a leader in many areas, especially in the area of the auction closing, which we took initiative on changing in 2016 when we switched to extending bidding starting during the day and the auction ending no later than midnight.

I'll preface my comments by saying a few things. First, I am posting here because I think it's an issue that is coming to a head. Many of things I reference are things I am speaking on generally after years of reading this board and interacting with our customers. This thread seems likely one where the topic is getting some legs and positive discussion can be achieved. Second, I am not naive enough to think that one auction closing method will work for everyone, but I think there are ways to make the closing method, whatever it is for the individual AH more palatable to bidders. And third, on a similar but different note since it's been referenced in this thread and countless others on the board, I'll say that if there's a company that you don't feel good about dealing with because you can't trust them for one reason or another, then you should consider whether or not to even do business with them in the first place. There's a lot of great people in this industry fighting every day to do the right thing in a stand up manner and there's plenty that aren't towing the same line. Chances are the cards or memorabilia you covet will come around soon again so you can be discerning with your dollars.

On to the topic of auction closings, the auction software component is just one piece of the puzzle (and I will say that as someone who has used both Simple Auction--when I started Sterling--and Create Auction with REA, both companies have been receptive to making programming changes as needed with the understanding that some changes take longer than others), but let's not forget that there's a human element of auction house owners and executives who can choose to do things in a way that benefits bidders and doesn't ask them to stay up until 6:15 AM chasing a baseball card. I decided that REA would be a leader in this area and take on the challenge of addressing the insane late night endings when in 2016 we shifted to extended bidding taking place during the day beginning at noon EST with a hard close of midnight EST if bidding hadn't shut down automatically or if we hadn't decided to end it manually. The overnight closings are an outdated thing of the past. They are a holdover from the 1970s when the only way to bid was with a catalog, notebook, and landline phone. The only time to ensure everyone had the best chance to participate was overnight when most people were at home and not working. In today's day and age of cell phones, iPads, and more, bidders can go about their daily lives, access the auction from anywhere at any time, and not be tied to a computer. We wouldn't go to our accountant at 2:45 AM or our mechanic at 4:10 AM, so why should our hobby put us out of commission for days and days while we recover from marathon auction endings where items that are worth tens of dollars and hundreds of dollars are keeping things going well into the next morning. Auction houses see a lot of data when the auction is in extended bidding, and I think there's a responsibility on the auction house to interpret that data and make their best decisions. The extended bidding format with 15 minute rule is a method we thinks works very well when administered and used correctly and not abused.

On the topic of individual lot closing versus the resetting clock, I am a staunch proponent of the 15 minute rule concept. I firmly believe that some bidders, though not all bidders, reallocate funds as the auction develops. This may be more true in a larger auction like REA where people are generally saving up for a period of time or dealers are bidding on 100+ items looking for inventory than it would be in smaller auctions that are offering more single item lots or more common, lower-dollar items, but the premise is real at all levels I'd argue. It's easy to get boxed into the notion that this is a fake ploy by greedy AHs to explain away late night closings, but when you're only watching one or two items in an auction, it's easy not to realize that some collectors are watching 15 or 50 or 100 and don't have the money to buy them all but want to walk away with something. Even from the outside, you can watch the REA recent bids page and see patterns throughout the night. It's even more obvious to us internally (and it's why we can so confidently say this to be true) when we see names jumping around to different items. Sometimes focus #1 is a $10,000 card but when that doesn't pan out there's five $2000 cards that the collector is just as happy to own. Many collectors never consider all the moving parts to an auction close or consider what it's like to be on the selling side when you want to ensure that every opportunity to achieve the highest price is afforded to you. At REA we still process dozens of phone bidders every auction (these are generally old school collectors who rely on the catalog and don't use computers), we have call backs to make on items--either from the phone bidders or from computer savvy collectors who just so happen to be out and about without access to the auction when they're outbid, and we ship catalogs to 20+ different countries and have bidders in all sorts of different time zones at any given time. We were processing bids at a rate of almost one every three seconds in the last thirty minutes of the Spring 2017 auction. Our final closing day was responsible for over 5000 bids totaling millions of dollars. I know the argument will be that individual lot closing works well for this AH and that AH, but the truth is I've been shut out on items in Heritage because of the way the clock falls on an item or two and I have to decide, and then I end up getting skunked.

On another similar but different topic that's been addressed in the past, auction length is often discussed. A lot of people seem to advocate a week as enough time to get everyone interested and conduct an auction. The truth is that for an event like REA, a week would be a grave disservice to bidders and consignors. It might fly for online only auctions that don't produce a catalog or an auction where the catalog is small and the items are straightforward. We entertain dozens of prospective bidders in person and handle hundreds of phone calls while the auction is open. Collectors are selling off items to raise funds and dealers are valuing dozens of sets, group lots, and auction items as they compete to acquire fresh inventory. We are showing items to additional authenticators on behalf of bidders. We are fulfilling hundreds of catalog requests and an equal number of new bidder registrations each auction. We are running advertising in a multitude of places and endeavoring to get traction outside the hobby for specific pieces and the auction as a whole. If anyone thinks they can do all of this as effectively in seven days, please send me an e-mail and a résumé.

In closing, I assure you that REA will continue to look for ways to modernize (and humanize) the auction closing method. We appreciate that so many collectors consider our auction to be an "event" and we know that for many, many years people were up til 4 AM with us waiting to see what happened. It's not always easy going out on a limb and making a change, but to us, this method of starting extended bidding during the day and closing by midnight is the happiest of mediums at this time. It may not be perfect, but we feel like at least we're on the right side of the clock and working in a way that takes into account the bidders and consignors. We're experimenting with ways to even shorten extended bidding as it is, and if they're successful and we're confident that they work well, we'll be excited to share other ways in which we are ushering the sportscard auction business into the 21st century (even if it's a little belatedly).

Brian Dwyer
Robert Edward Auctions

[mechanicalman]

Brian,

Thank you for your transparent post and your leadership.