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#1
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Most valuable card
T206 Honus Wagner PSA 8 or 52 topps mantle PSA 10?
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#2
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PSA 10 52 Topps Mantle
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#3
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1990 Fleer Jose Uribe is closing fast.
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- Justin D. Player collecting - Lance Parrish, Jim Davenport, John Norlander. Successful B/S/T with - Highstep74, Northviewcats, pencil1974, T2069bk, tjenkins, wilkiebaby11, baez578, Bocabirdman, maddux31, Leon, Just-Collect, bigfish, quinnsryche...and a whole bunch more, I stopped keeping track, lol. |
#4
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If a true PSA 8 was ever found, it would crush the PSA 10 Mantle by a factor of 3.
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#5
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A Wagner PSA 5 sold for over $3,000,000. I can't imagine what an 8 would bring. |
#6
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Honestly not sure
I wouldn't bet too much on this because i am honestly not sure. if the wagner didn't have its sketchy past i'd bet on that, but it does, so I'm not sure in all honesty.
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#7
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This is where I am at as well. So much of this also depends on whether there are 2 interested parties who have to have the card.
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Seeking Type 1 photos especially Ruth I still love the hobby |
#8
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If it wasn't trimmed the Wags in an 8 would blow away a Mantle in a 10, imo.
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 07-15-2018 at 06:52 AM. |
#9
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The Wagner. There are 3 Mantles, so if one were to come up for sale, you have 2 deep pockets that wouldn't be bidding. There is only 1 PSA 8 Wagner.
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#10
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.
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Leon Luckey |
#11
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Why did one of the big submitters get it into a PSA 10 slab?
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#12
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What are you talking about? Did you mean to say what "if"? Or are you speaking of a Mantle or what?
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Leon Luckey |
#13
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It was a joke about the Wagner because of you saying there is no PSA 8.
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#14
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I'm not so sure the Wagner being trimmed makes much of a difference. Plus the card has a history, Gretzky used to own it. If another psa 8 is discovered and they were both sold I would not be surprised if the new one went for less, and they both sold for less than a psa 10 52 mantle.
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Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#15
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IMHO, the most valuable card, should it come out for sale, would be the best example of the 1914 Baltimore News Ruth (VG+, I believe), quite possibly contested closely by a PSA 10 '52 Topps Mantle. 8 figures would not surprise me for either. Each has become analogous to the early '60's Ferrari road/race models in our collectible field.
Regards, Larry Last edited by ls7plus; 07-16-2018 at 03:37 PM. |
#16
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Wagz
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#17
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But wait ... I thought I had heard that all three PSA 10 Mantles had been hand cut from those uncut sheets.
Doesn't that make them "trimmed" too? I mean the grade on them is just as bogus because they were not factory cut and issued cards. Why the question marks and discrimination on the Wagner and not the Mantles? All 4 have been doctored in one way or the other. Cheers, Patrick
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__________________ Looking for 1923 W572 Walt Barbare and Pat Duncan. |
#18
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I assumed that all three Mantles are from Rosen's find. Last edited by Baseball Rarities; 07-16-2018 at 10:34 PM. |
#19
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my 2 cents
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Pretty incredible the level of detail that PSA claims to invest in determining if a card is trimmed or otherwise altered and yet a card that is supposed to be in some respects the face of the hobby sits in a holder with a numeric grade at the top of the population and not even so much as a qualifier - If I am not mistaken, by their own guidelines the card should have an "A" grade. |
#20
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I thought I had pictures somewhere of that sheet ... but all I could readily find in my photo archive was one of the other uncut sheets that walked in the door that day. Cheers, Patrick
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__________________ Looking for 1923 W572 Walt Barbare and Pat Duncan. |
#21
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Quote:
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Last edited by MW1; 07-16-2018 at 05:28 PM. |
#22
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Hopefully the poster can dig up some more info on it.
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52 Topps cards. https://www.flickr.com/photos/144160280@N05/ http://www.net54baseball.com/album.php?albumid=922 |
#23
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agreed
agreed
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Neal Successful transactions with Peter Spaeth, raulus, ghostmarcelle, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, Brian Dwyer, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others |
#24
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as someone who has little to no faith in grading companies as a whole and PSA specifically, even i find it hard to believe they would give a 10 to cards they saw being hand cut from a sheet minutes before.
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#25
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I thought the three Mantles came from Mr. Mint's find?
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Mantle Master Set - as complete as it is going to get Yankees Game Used Hat Style Run (1923-2017): 57/60 (missing 2008/9 holiday hats & 2017 Players Weekend) |
#26
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I'm sorry to say I do not remember where I heard this. Honestly, I thought it was common knowledge because I picked up years after it happened from some public forum (net54 before it switched format?), and so I didn't make great notes of the source.
The original source though was more a story about how someone came into one of the early shows with these uncut sheets (4 or 5 sheets of 25 cards of all uncut high numbers) and the room went wild. The cutting of the Mantles from the sheet and submitting them for grading was an after thought in the accounts I read. The original owner still had one sheet with Mantle left on it years later ... and sold it 4(?) years or so back on Ebay. (Given the prices today, it was a great buy!) I wish I could offer more proof - but I do not appear to have saved the original information. Cheers, Patrick
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__________________ Looking for 1923 W572 Walt Barbare and Pat Duncan. |
#27
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It strikes me as pretty reckless and irresponsible to truck in such unsubstantiated smearing of Fogel's card and the other two 10s, saying— without proof— that all have been doctored and/or cut from sheets.
Here is all I could find; this first information quoted below is from an article on Sports Collector's Daily: "Fogel’s card, among the earliest graded by PSA, had originated with the famous 1980s Massachusetts find made by Alan “Mr. Mint” Rosen, who purchased hundreds of high-grade 1952 Topps cards –even the original Topps case they were stored in– from a man in Quincy, MA in 1986." https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...psa-10-mantle/ This Forbes article also traces the Fogel specimen's origins to the Rosen Find... https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidse.../#29c6ebc43a99 From PSA's website: Fogel-Murphy Specimen. The card came from the fabulous 1952 Topps collection of Mark Murphy. It was then sold by dealer Bill Hughes to Collectors Universe CEO David Hall for $50,000 in 1993. When Hall's collection was auctioned by Superior in 1996, renowned collector Marshall Fogel purchased the card for $121,000. Wormser-Candiotti Specimen. This specimen was from Ed Wormser's wonderful collection. Sold in the Wormser sale by Robert Edward Auctions in 1996. Resold by Superior in 1998 to former major league pitcher, Tom Candiotti, for $104,500. Roehrig-Garcia Specimen. First sent in to PSA for grading by dealer Craig Roehrig. Sold to Peter Garcia in 1999 for $160,000. Resold by Superior to an anonymous collector in June, 2001 for $275,000. Last edited by MattyC; 07-17-2018 at 04:06 PM. |
#28
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WOW! all three purchases of the 10's were a long time ago! Nice...real nice returns on those babies!!!!
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#29
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Mark Murphy consigned his 1952 Topps set to Richard Wolffers Auction House, owned by Duane Garrett. There was a $250,000 reserve on the set and it didn't sell. Bill Hughes was then in charge of brokering the set. He broke up the set to various collectors, David Hall being the one that purchased the Mantle. The card was then graded a PSA 10. It was decided that Hall owning PSA and being a collector was a conflict of interest so he auctioned his collection through Superior and that's where Fogel purchased the Mantle. The card was not from the Rosen find. I enjoy the hobby history that goes along with cards like this and I have had some incredible conversations with Marshall Fogel. I went to his safety deposit box to look at his 52 Mantle. I brought a ruler, I brought a 40x lighted loupe, and I brought a UV flashlight. I was ready to pick the card apart. The only 2 slight imperfections I saw were a very subtle tilt and back centering that was a little off. The card is truly a remarkable specimen and a high end 10. It measures the full size of 2.65" x 3.75", the color is bold and bright, the corners and edges are sharp yet natural. Having never seen a high resolution scan of the card I was totally skeptical about was I was going to see. "David Hall bought a 1952 Mantle and graded it a 10? Uh huh. Ok Marshall, I'm sure it's great." But it is. I would think if they were cutting these from sheets they wouldn't have left a small tilt like the one on Marshall's, or a bigger tilt like the one on Kendrick's. I also looked at Marshall's 1953 Mantle 10 with the same detail so I know which of the two in existence is superior. |
#30
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Calling a card a "high end 10" seems kinda superfluous? Shouldn't all 10's be...10's?
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#31
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Agreed. I never recall this being "common knowledge" and I don't ever remember it being posted on any major forum. Certainly, based on the condition of the 1952 Topps sheets, there's no way that white, sharp-cornered Mantles could come from unseparated, toned, creased cards. It defies reason. Not all, but many of the high grade 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle cards do indeed come from Rosen's find.
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#32
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In my humble opinion, there can be a high end 10 and a low end 10 in exactly the same way there can be a high end 9 and a low end 9. It's not a drastic scale we are talking about here but if the teacher is grading a test and gives one student a 98 and one student a 95, are we going to call that equal? A PSA 10 can have 60/40 centering on the front. In my eyes, that probably wouldn't be a high end 10 or a card I'd like in my collection. PSA's grading standards state that a 10 is a "virtually" perfect card, not that they are flawless.
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#33
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Also, and not a big deal, I believe that the set was consigned by Mike Murphy - Mark's dad. |
#34
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Article on Marshall Fogel's PSA 10 Mantle in local paper
Noticed an article on Marshall Fogel's PSA 10 Mantle which compared it to the t206 Wager here in Portland, Maine today.
Patrick |
#35
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I agree...I guess In my head a 10 should be perfect...otherwise it shouldn't be a 10...I forget about the "rules."
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#36
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That makes much more sense. I went to school with Mark and he was much more interested in new stuff when we were in high school (graduated in 1990). His father is one of the nicest men I’ve ever known and we used to sit at the dining room table and look at that set. He was so proud of it and I don’t think Mark cared very much for vintage at the time. It was really my first exposure to older cards and it kind of ruined things for me...similar to sitting 15th row center stage for the Stones in ‘89. It doesn’t get much better! The Murphy’s moved down south a few years later and I never got to see those cards again... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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M@tt McC@arthy I collect Hal Chase, Diamond Stars (PSA 5 or better), 1951 Bowman (Raw Ex or better), 1954 Topps (PSA 7 or better), 1956 Topps (Raw Ex or better), 3x5 Hall of Fame Autographs and autographed Perez Steele Postcards. You can see my collection by going to http://www.collectorfocus.com/collection/BigSix. |
#37
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#38
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__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. Last edited by pokerplyr80; 07-18-2018 at 05:39 PM. |
#39
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Guys, this is all being taken care of for us by this Purple Sticker thingy. Remember?
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I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#40
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Jordan Rookie PSA 10's
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.. |
#41
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__________________
Successful transactions with peter spaeth, don's cards, vwtdi, wolf441, 111gecko, Clydewally, Jim, SPMIDD, MattyC, jmb, botn, E107collector, begsu1013, and a few others. |
#42
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Anyone have a scan or picture of all 3 1952 topps mantle psa 10’s?
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#43
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.
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Leon Luckey Last edited by Leon; 07-20-2018 at 06:39 AM. |
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