Did I buy a Fake Marquard Signed T206?

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Didn't see your original post of the other card but I still believe it's authentic and a great example.

Too weird of a coincidence for me.

From this gallery, I can see that Marquard started his signatures at random places. Never on the same spot. http://www.signedt206.com/how-many-s...rquards-exist/

I could maybe live with it if the pen was the same, but two different types of pens indicate two different signings at different times. Very unlikely that he starts the signature on the same exact spot and on the same exact angle.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Too weird of a coincidence for me.



From this gallery, I can see that Marquard started his signatures at random places. Never on the same spot. http://www.signedt206.com/how-many-s...rquards-exist/



I could maybe live with it if the pen was the same, but two different types of pens indicate two different signings at different times. Very unlikely that he starts the signature on the same exact spot and on the same exact angle.

He basically had 3 different autograph spots on his T cards. Rube stacked over Marquard, fitting the whole signature horizontally and then at that steep angle. Sometimes rarely vertically. A lot of his signatures posted on Paul's site show this and the ones I have owned as well.

[ALBB]

Seems like an awful lot of money spent on something like that. .and not getting the satisfaction you want

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

He basically had 3 different autograph spots on his T cards. Rube stacked over Marquard, fitting the whole signature horizontally and then at that steep angle. Sometimes rarely vertically. A lot of his signatures posted on Paul's site show this and the ones I have owned as well.

This is why autograph authentication is such a metaphysical concept, rooted in idealism.

No one witnessed Marquard sign that card. At this point, the only thing that matters is that you think it's real. If you think it's real, then it's real.

Nothing will ever be certain when it comes to that signature.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

This is why autograph authentication is such a metaphysical concept, rooted in idealism.



No one witnessed Marquard sign that card. At this point, the only thing that matters is that you think it's real. If you think it's real, then it's real.



Nothing will ever be certain when it comes to that signature.

You could make the same argument for every autograph ever signed that you don't know the authenticity unless you witness it signed yourself. With that said, there are many many techniques to prove an autograph authentic.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

You could make the same argument for every autograph ever signed that you don't know the authenticity unless you witness it signed yourself. With that said, there are many many techniques to prove an autograph authentic.

No, the same argument can't be made for mediums like legal contracts and checks, where the cost of recreating it by means of forgery would far outweigh the financial benefit to be gained by selling it as authentic.

It boils down to cost/benefit analysis and that Rube Marquard card, in that condition, has very little cost, and a lot of economic benefit if someone can place a signature on it. It's not a particularly hard signature to forge either, especially with a thick felt tipped pen.

Just something to think about.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

No, the same argument can't be made for mediums like legal contracts and checks, where the cost of recreating it by means of forgery would far outweigh the financial benefit to be gained by selling it as authentic.



It boils down to cost/benefit analysis and that Rube Marquard card, in that condition, has very little cost, and a lot of economic benefit if someone can place a signature on it. It's not a particularly hard signature to forge either, especially with a thick felt tipped pen.



Just something to think about.

Yes, it can. I've seen fake signed checks, I'm sure you have as well. I don't consider a legal document to be an autograph in my opinion. True, but unless you recreate an historically rare signature that's a different story.

If that were the case, why don't we see more signed T206 cards? A signed Larry Doyle just sold for $800 or so and it's probably a $5-$15 card raw. Why don't people buy them up and place a signature on it, his is easy as well.

His signature may not be hard to forge but he has some tells with his signature.

Trust me, I think about it all the time unfortunately lol.

In the end I think it's good and looks just like the ones I've owned and many I've seen. I have had Mike Trout autographs I got signed in person myself that have both passed and failed authenticity. Like you said, boils down to if YOU believe it's authentic or not.

[SetBuilder]

I had a feeling the card was signed recently, so I went on Worthpoint and found this on page 6.

I think this pretty much means case closed.

The signature is fake.

Embarrassing gaffe for JSA.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

You could make the same argument for every autograph ever signed that you don't know the authenticity unless you witness it signed yourself. With that said, there are many many techniques to prove an autograph authentic.

"Prove"?

I respectfully disagree.

Doug

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

"Prove"?



I respectfully disagree.



Doug

Yeah, you're probably right. I was reaching a little there LOL

[The Nasty Nati]

It makes you wonder if there are Larry Doyle auto fakes out there too. Certainly not as valuable as a HOFer, but those tend to go for $1k+ now.