Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

My point is that there is nothing wrong really (and not to the extent of a mass issue ) because there are no lawsuits. Mastro fraud i agree there was something going on and thats why there were many people filing lawsuits/claims for lots of money

In this trimming issue there are no lawsuits so all of these complaining on the board seems odd considering there are no lawsuits. If it was such a big deal why arent there lawsuits. It appears everyone is getting paid back and/or happy is my point. Its been a long enough wait at this point for something to have happened. You are making my point. Thanks

There was one lawsuit against Mastro and it was a countersuit -- I know because I brought it. And many miserable victims, many of whom got paid back without having to resort to litigation. This is how it works sometimes, understood at least by most competent lawyers.

As for my point, the reason you aren't getting any calls from any potential litigants against PSA is, well, I think we both know. Even the second biggest dullard on the board understands.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

There was one lawsuit against Mastro and it was a countersuit -- I know because I brought it. And many miserable victims, many of whom got paid back without having to resort to litigation. This is how it works sometimes, understood at least by most competent lawyers.

As for my point, the reason you aren't getting any calls from any potential litigants against PSA is, well, I think we both know. Even the second biggest dullard on the board understands.

the point is that nobody is getting any calls to file suit. If this is an earth shattering deal, to have zero lawsuits at this point says something is all i am saying. With Mastro there was at least one lawsuit......like i said with the trimming issue with PSA, people must be happy with the outcome/getting paid back/satisfied, again you prove my point...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

the point is that nobody is getting any calls to file suit. If this is an earth shattering deal, to have zero lawsuits at this point says something is all i am saying. With Mastro there was at least one lawsuit......like i said with the trimming issue with PSA, people must be happy with the outcome/getting paid back/satisfied, again you prove my point...

I’m not proving your point at all except for the one on top of your head. Just because strip mall lawyers don’t get calls to go after PSA doesn’t mean other lawyers aren’t. There was only one lawsuit brought against Mastro — does that mean that all his victims were otherwise happy? Your logic or lack thereof is the reason why you have no knowledge of potential litigants lining up against PSA. Just admit it: you know nothing firsthand about any of the legal issues here.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I'm not happy with any of this crap, but I have no grounds for filing any lawsuits against anyone. So just because there are no lawsuits doesn't mean everyone is happy. I'm quite the opposite as happy. And a lot of other people are just an unhappy about the whole thing as I am. To make the argument that no lawsuits means everyone is happy is just unreal. And every time this argument is made it makes for an easy target for ridicule.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I'm not happy with any of this crap, but I have no grounds for filing any lawsuits against anyone. So just because there are no lawsuits doesn't mean everyone is happy. I'm quite the opposite as happy. And a lot of other people are just an unhappy about the whole thing as I am. To make the argument that no lawsuits means everyone is happy is just unreal. And every time this argument is made it makes for an easy target for ridicule.

Same here... extremely discontent and saddened about the state of the hobby, or business, or whatever the hell it is now...

But although I am not personally filing any lawsuits, who knows how many other defrauded people are preparing for litigation. This is the infancy stage. Many victims have not yet become aware of the situation, but they very well might, in due time.

PSA wants everyone to go back to the sellers for refunds. But what if the tainted cards were bought months/years ago? What if the Dealer is no longer in business or is unreachable? What if the card was obtained via trade show, in which the seller has been long-forgotten?

The vast majority of us have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. Give it adequate time, for goodness' sake.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Same here... extremely discontent and saddened about the state of the hobby, or business, or whatever the hell it is now...

But although I am not personally filing any lawsuits, who knows how many other defrauded people are preparing for litigation. This is the infancy stage. Many victims have not yet become aware of the situation, but they very well might, in due time.

PSA wants everyone to go back to the sellers for refunds. But what if the tainted cards were bought months/years ago? What if the Dealer is no longer in business or is unreachable? What if the card was obtained via trade show, in which the seller has been long-forgotten?

The vast majority of us have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. Give it adequate time, for goodness' sake.

What if the dealer refuses to give a refund?

[Stampsfan]

Or what if the dealer bought it from another dealer? And so on. Are they supposed to follow this trail until you get to the person who had it graded from PSA? And then what?

Having PSA tell you to go back to the last seller is a cop out.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What if the dealer refuses to give a refund?

I was thinking the same thing. When is PSA going to accept any responsibility? I hope they're doing their own internal investigations on graders whom handled specific submissions from specific clients........

I ask myself this question, What exactly is the purpose of their services if they can't tell what is altered and what is not?

It's the allusion of when your card is graded it becomes instantly a prized commodity primed for registry sets and low pops......ALL B to THE S............

Keep Hush the Suckers Need Us and They Always Come Back....This Will Pass and We Will Prevail......

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Same here... extremely discontent and saddened about the state of the hobby, or business, or whatever the hell it is now...

But although I am not personally filing any lawsuits, who knows how many other defrauded people are preparing for litigation. This is the infancy stage. Many victims have not yet become aware of the situation, but they very well might, in due time.

PSA wants everyone to go back to the sellers for refunds. But what if the tainted cards were bought months/years ago? What if the Dealer is no longer in business or is unreachable? What if the card was obtained via trade show, in which the seller has been long-forgotten?

The vast majority of us have no idea what's happening behind the scenes. Give it adequate time, for goodness' sake.

right i understand, but again you are stating that lawsuits WILL happen. My point is if they NEVER happen, then this matter isnt to the extent as such a big deal. People were wronged yes, but there is a huge category of wronged people in which lawsuits are actually filed for lower amounts of money that at issue here.

Yeah there are certain examples of reasons for certain people why no lawsuit was filed but what about the 100s of easy ones involving large amounts of money.

Guy buys a card for 30k from dealer who is in business, and weeks later finds out it was trimmed. (so no issue of card at trade show, or seller is long forgotten or dealer out of business) Lets give it another year from today, wouldnt that not be in the infancy stage?

All i hear is that its soo early as the months keep going by and all of the reasons why nobody would pursue the matter but there are more reasons why people would pursue unless they were happy with the outcome/recourse and reason no lawsuit filed..

I just think even 2 years from now, i will still hear 'give it time'

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I’m not proving your point at all except for the one on top of your head. Just because strip mall lawyers don’t get calls to go after PSA doesn’t mean other lawyers aren’t. There was only one lawsuit brought against Mastro — does that mean that all his victims were otherwise happy? Your logic or lack thereof is the reason why you have no knowledge of potential litigants lining up against PSA. Just admit it: you know nothing firsthand about any of the legal issues here.

Its interesting that almost every comment you make has an insult in it. We all know about people who find they have to belittle people.

I am making a point. There are no lawsuits. Only takes one major suit to help resolve other potential cases so having one lawsuit is a big deal versus zero.

There is no final answer that you have or I have as to why there arent any. We all have are viewpoints. I am free to make my own point and you are free to make your point.

Even people not in penthouse lawyer offices are free to make our points known. The fact you bother to reply to little ole me shows me something. I assume you will again respond with an nursery school insult and raise your dorsal fin but again you will feel the need to say something. Thats the funny thing.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Its interesting that almost every comment you make has an insult in it. We all know about people who find they have to belittle people.

I am making a point. There are no lawsuits. Only takes one major suit to help resolve other potential cases so having one lawsuit is a big deal versus zero.

There is no final answer that you have or I have as to why there arent any. We all have are viewpoints. I am free to make my own point and you are free to make your point.

Even people not in penthouse lawyer offices are free to make our points known. The fact you bother to reply to little ole me shows me something. I assume you will again respond with an nursery school insult and raise your dorsal fin but again you will feel the need to say something. Thats the funny thing.

So one lawsuit brought -- which was actually a counterclaim -- makes a situation hugely problematic for hobbyists but that no lawsuits brought means that this is a non-issue? Are you aware that the one counterclaim brought against Mastro occurred years after the criminal investigation began? Much further down the road than where we are now with the revelations about PSA and grading of trimmed cards.

As for an insult, there's no need really to insult you. I can't do any better than your own words, your own faulty logic. Even the non-lawyers have more acumen than you on these issues.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just to end these posts by Jake, I am filing suit tomorrow on behalf of myself and a class that I'll figure out later against all three grading companies, PWCC, 17 card doctors, and 17 other defendants to be named later for intentional infliction of emotional distress for all the angst they have caused me since the scandal began. Even though they haven't consented I am including Johnny and Chuck as named plaintiffs. Anyone else who wants to be named you'll have to pay me but you will need a minimum of 500 posts on the subject to qualify. Blowout doesn't count. On Kenny Cole's law school classmate's advice I am avoiding California courts like the plague. I am still debating Oregon (no sales tax, home of PWCC and vault and Martin) or Texas (home of Leon and Adat Chaverim show). Jake, I'll send you a copy once it's filed.

Edit to add To appease some message board wannabes I will also have a RICO count and a request to shut down PSA.

[calvindog]

Civil RICO or criminal?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just to end these posts by Jake, I am filing suit tomorrow on behalf of myself and a class that I'll figure out later against all three grading companies, PWCC, 17 card doctors, and 17 other defendants to be named later for intentional infliction of emotional distress for all the angst they have caused me since the scandal began. Even though they haven't consented I am including Johnny and Chuck as named plaintiffs. Anyone else who wants to be named you'll have to pay me but you will need a minimum of 500 posts on the subject to qualify. Blowout doesn't count. On Kenny Cole's law school classmate's advice I am avoiding California courts like the plague. I am still debating Oregon (no sales tax, home of PWCC and vault and Martin) or Texas (home of Leon and Adat Chaverim show). Jake, I'll send you a copy once it's filed.

Edit to add To appease some message board wannabes I will also have a RICO count and a request to shut down PSA.

Ill await the copy......

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just to end these posts by Jake, I am filing suit tomorrow on behalf of myself and a class that I'll figure out later against all three grading companies, PWCC, 17 card doctors, and 17 other defendants to be named later for intentional infliction of emotional distress for all the angst they have caused me since the scandal began. Even though they haven't consented I am including Johnny and Chuck as named plaintiffs. Anyone else who wants to be named you'll have to pay me but you will need a minimum of 500 posts on the subject to qualify. Blowout doesn't count. On Kenny Cole's law school classmate's advice I am avoiding California courts like the plague. I am still debating Oregon (no sales tax, home of PWCC and vault and Martin) or Texas (home of Leon and Adat Chaverim show). Jake, I'll send you a copy once it's filed.

Edit to add To appease some message board wannabes I will also have a RICO count and a request to shut down PSA.

I consent. Class action, Rico & shut it all down! I'm currently in a class action lawsuit with the gas company going on for 5 years now, so I don't expect Rome to be built in a day. Get it going. Where should I ship all the evidence, All My FAKE trimmed cards in these stupid plastic rip off holders?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just to end these posts by Jake, I am filing suit tomorrow on behalf of myself and a class that I'll figure out later against all three grading companies, PWCC, 17 card doctors, and 17 other defendants to be named later for intentional infliction of emotional distress for all the angst they have caused me since the scandal began. Even though they haven't consented I am including Johnny and Chuck as named plaintiffs. Anyone else who wants to be named you'll have to pay me but you will need a minimum of 500 posts on the subject to qualify. Blowout doesn't count. On Kenny Cole's law school classmate's advice I am avoiding California courts like the plague. I am still debating Oregon (no sales tax, home of PWCC and vault and Martin) or Texas (home of Leon and Adat Chaverim show). Jake, I'll send you a copy once it's filed.

Edit to add To appease some message board wannabes I will also have a RICO count and a request to shut down PSA.

I'm.... wait, I have to make 500 posts AND pay you? That's just too much work for me. I probably couldn't afford it anyway.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

So one lawsuit brought -- which was actually a counterclaim -- makes a situation hugely problematic for hobbyists but that no lawsuits brought means that this is a non-issue? Are you aware that the one counterclaim brought against Mastro occurred years after the criminal investigation began? Much further down the road than where we are now with the revelations about PSA and grading of trimmed cards.

As for an insult, there's no need really to insult you. I can't do any better than your own words, your own faulty logic. Even the non-lawyers have more acumen than you on these issues.

there you go. Another post that you know all the answers and another insult. What a surprise.

You have your own narrative and you dont factor in anything. I understand you are making your argument and have a client in this issue. Nobody knows everything. I never said this is a non-issue, i always said theres there is an issue. I just said there are issues where lawsuits are involved and issues where lawsuits are not involved.

To me, i think thats a big difference. I would think in the HOF of the biggest scams in the world where people are wronged and lost tons of money and were all unhappy a lawsuit would be filed whether now or 3 years from now. People are saying that in time it will happen, I am just saying theres a good chance there wont if everyone is satisfied to a degree/dont care that nobody will file lawsuit.

I can spare you your next post. Jake- people in grade school know more than you. I am great, look at how i bully and insult.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

there you go. Another post that you know all the answers and another insult. What a surprise.

You have your own narrative and you dont factor in anything. I understand you are making your argument and have a client in this issue. Nobody knows everything. I never said this is a non-issue, i always said theres there is an issue. I just said there are issues where lawsuits are involved and issues where lawsuits are not involved.

To me, i think thats a big difference. I would think in the HOF of the biggest scams in the world where people are wronged and lost tons of money and were all unhappy a lawsuit would be filed whether now or 3 years from now. People are saying that in time it will happen, I am just saying theres a good chance there wont if everyone is satisfied to a degree/dont care that nobody will file lawsuit.

I can spare you your next post. Jake- people in grade school know more than you. I am great, look at how i bully and insult.

You're Peter Chao. I don't think you're malignant but you proudly wave around your ignorance as if it is supposed to impress someone.

Sometimes it makes sense to listen to people who know more than you on an issue, who have actual experience on an issue, who are involved in the issue.

Again, and I'll type this slowly for you: litigation does not need to be brought in order for victims to be made whole. The number of lawsuits brought is not directly related to the harm perceived or suffered. Yes, this is grade school common sense of which non-lawyers on the board seem to understand well.

The fact that I have a client involved would suggest that I would be looking to downplay what occurred here. I am not. For an obvious reason. Again, and s l o w l y: what occurred here rocks the foundation of the hobby. Lawsuits or no lawsuits will not change that.