Heritage - sold now not sold? Huh?

[Aaron Seefeldt]

This Wagner 1913-15 Pinkerton blank back had a closing price of $21K in Heritage’s November auction… but NOW it says “not sold”. How is this possible?

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c.../50049-56257.s

[mrreality68]

I also saw it was an item that sold.

The only thing I can think of if the winner defaulted/ did not pay for what he won.
Either he never intended to, could not come up with funds, backed out because he thought the price was way to high.
So if he did not pay then It never sold.

[Jason]

That sounds about right. Unless a reserve wasn't listed and not met in the sale.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jason

That sounds about right. Unless a reserve wasn't listed and not met in the sale.

They always list reserves.... someone probably didn't pay. That was a pretty hefty price for that card.
.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

They always list reserves.... someone probably didn't pay. That was a pretty hefty price for that card.
.

+1 I saw that price and was like

Looks like the lucky winner decided he would burn a bridge with Heritage (likely never allowed to bid there or many others -- they all talk) to save from a substantial overpay

[byrone]

What percentage of auctions (auction houses only, not ebay) go unpaid by the highest bidders?

[CrownSports]

I can't speak to percentages but we usually have 1-2 bidders not pay per auction. Rarely is it high dollar items but usually $100+ lots.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

we had about a dozen no pays in 2021

[Exhibitman]

Well considering that i sold a nicer one before the run-up at a fraction of that price and felt like an idiot when I saw this result, I feel less stupid now that the sale tanked. I will tell my wife so she can remind me that I'm still really, really stupid in so many ways.

[perezfan]

Perhaps Heritage bid on it themselves, in the hope it would go even higher. Just theorizing, but I bet they get stuck with a few of these each auction.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Perhaps Heritage bid on it themselves, in the hope it would go even higher. Just theorizing, but I bet they get stuck with a few of these each auction.

I do know that they are allowed to bid on their own items. With that being said, you would think they would know the value of each item, and not just blindly bid stuff up to the moon.

[Eric72]

So, the auction house isn't leaving a "false comp" out there?

I suppose that's a good thing.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Eric72

So, the auction house isn't leaving a "false comp" out there?

I suppose that's a good thing.

VCP is reporting it...garbage in garbage out. Not their fault...anyway what is one more false comp compared to the thousands and thousands already logged in?

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I do know that they are allowed to bid on their own items. With that being said, you would think they would know the value of each item, and not just blindly bid stuff up to the moon.

How do you know this to be true, if you don’t mind me asking?


Shill bidding:
the practice of bidding for something that you are selling in an auction in order to increase the selling price
Shill bidding is against the law.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

How do you know this to be true, if you don’t mind me asking?


Shill bidding:
the practice of bidding for something that you are selling in an auction in order to increase the selling price
Shill bidding is against the law.

Only in very rare circumstances.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

How do you know this to be true, if you don’t mind me asking?


Shill bidding:
the practice of bidding for something that you are selling in an auction in order to increase the selling price
Shill bidding is against the law.

Heritage has been bidding on its own items, with full disclosure, since time immemorial. This is well publicized. The whole hobby knows it. I am sure it's not illegal under Texas law or someone would have cracked down on them, long ago. Anyhow, good luck discerning their intent on any given bid, unless there is a ceiling bid already in place.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

How do you know this to be true, if you don’t mind me asking?


Shill bidding:
the practice of bidding for something that you are selling in an auction in order to increase the selling price
Shill bidding is against the law.

It's in their Terms and conditions.

Heitage Auctions Rules - Copy.jpg

Heitage Auctions Rules - Copy (2) - Copy - Copy.jpg

[sb1]

So....lets see how this really works.

I have two non-sports sets in the Heritage auction this weekend.

So I tried to bid on one of them out of curiosity knowing I would have to confirm the bid before going forward......AND guess what I got a message to follow:

WARNING: YOU ARE THE CONSIGNOR FOR THIS LOT
You cannot place or alter your reserves by bidding in this fashion. All reserves should be placed by emailing or calling_________________(1-800-872-6467x1975).

So it seems to be false that consignor's can bid on their own lots, the rules say the AH may bid on lots, of which that intent I believe is their raising lots to the scheduled reserves that were preset by the AH/consignor prior to the auction starting.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by sb1

So....lets see how this really works.

I have two non-sports sets in the Heritage auction this weekend.

So I tried to bid on one of them out of curiosity knowing I would have to confirm the bid before going forward......AND guess what I got a message to follow:

WARNING: YOU ARE THE CONSIGNOR FOR THIS LOT
You cannot place or alter your reserves by bidding in this fashion. All reserves should be placed by emailing or calling_________________(1-800-872-6467x1975).

So it seems to be false that consignor's can bid on their own lots, the rules say the AH may bid on lots, of which that intent I believe is their raising lots to the scheduled reserves that were preset by the AH/consignor prior to the auction starting.

The consignor can't bid on their own lots. Heritage can consign their own lots and bid on their own lots however.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

The consignor can't bid on their own lots. Heritage can consign their own lots and bid on their own lots however.

The consignors other than the house can place a written reserve. You could call that a bid.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Pat R

It's in their Terms and conditions.

Attachment 493373

Attachment 493375

Sounds like a win win for the consigner and auction house!

Bottom line is people don’t care.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Sounds like a win win for the consigner and auction house!

Bottom line is people don’t care.

You could say that about almost any scandal in the hobby, especially nowadays.

[Rhotchkiss]

I believe that the quoted language about the consignor bidding on their own consignments is a poorly drafted way of saying the consigner can establish a reserve. I also think the real purpose of the rule is to clearly state that consignors owe a buyers premium on lots that do not meet the reserve they create.

The rule that Heritage and it’s employees can bid on their own lot is elsewhere. But it’s there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I believe that the quoted language about the consignor bidding on their own consignments is a poorly drafted way of saying the consigner can establish a reserve. I also think the real purpose of the rule is to clearly state that consignors owe a buyers premium on lots that do not meet the reserve they create.

The rule that Heritage and it’s employees can bid on their own lot is elsewhere. But it’s there.

It's #21 right in Pat's post.

[Rhotchkiss]

Right, rule 21 regards heritage