T206 graded by ACU Card Inc.

[matt2002]

Hi, I have been collecting trading cards for 25 or so years but I am on the fence with what I should do with this card. This card is great looking card, but as you can see it was altered at one time. I want to send it into PSA but I hate to see this card get cracked out of the case. I love the history of the T206 and this one is in amazing condition, considering its over 100 years old (also assuming its authentic). Additionally, it was graded prior to PSA being founded I feel the value is also in the history.

I want to do what would bring the most value for the card because I've been slowly selling my entire collection and donating all proceeds so I want to do what would maximize the donation. Thoughts?

[Peter_Spaeth]

If it can be done reasonably, I'd get it into another holder, even if only an AUTH. That company has a horrible reputation.

PS Is Alan still alive/in the hobby?

[Jay Wolt]

I want to send it into PSA but I hate to see this card get cracked out of the case. I love the history of the T206 and this one is in amazing condition, considering its over 100 years old (also assuming its authentic). Additionally, it was graded prior to PSA being founded I feel the value is also in the history.

Then leave it as is, why go through the expense to get it listed as "Auth"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Then leave it as is, why go through the expense to get it listed as "Auth"

Maybe they'd miss the alteration.

[swarmee]

Maximum PSA grade of 4, IMO. Centering and stain on back lower it.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe they'd miss the alteration.

Haha I could only hope that if I send it in.

[53toppscollector]

I am 99% sure it is trimmed.

Still, I'd rather have it in an SGC A holder than whatever that holder is.

Good luck

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

I am 99% sure it is trimmed.

Still, I'd rather have it in an SGC A holder than whatever that holder is.

Good luck

Agree. With the naked eye it appears to be trimmed

[Leon]

I agree on the trimmed part. When I first looked at it I said, where are the borders?
That said, the old holder might be worth something!! Hobby folklore...(though true)
.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Leon

I agree on the trimmed part. When I first looked at it I said, where are the borders?
That said, the old holder might be worth something!! Hobby folklore...(though true)
.

I was thinking the same thing, is anybody putting together a collection of old holders? This one would be a granddaddy. Maybe PSA could holder old holders and put a grade on them.

[ullmandds]

Definitely trimmed if it were mine I would keep it in this historical slab.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Definitely trimmed if it were mine I would keep it in this historical slab.

+1

[FrankWakefield]

To me, the card isn't trimmed. I consider trimming involving slight cutting of the edges to 'trim' away wear. That card looks cut... as in a teenager got after it with scissors. No matter the holder, the card is of nominal value; and would not bring much money other than from an unsuspecting buyer. I think it'd cost more to get it into a PSA Authentic holder than the card is worth.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I was thinking the same thing, is anybody putting together a collection of old holders? This one would be a granddaddy. Maybe PSA could holder old holders and put a grade on them.

I was hoping for something like this. Would really like if PSA would keep it in the holder.

[Pat R]

Hasn't this card been on ebay for a year?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23419089888...Bk9SR_qduNjgYA

[Peter_Spaeth]

To me, an Alan Hager holder has no historical value.

[MVSNYC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

To me, an Alan Hager holder has no historical value.

This.


And, if there's any chance of getting it into a numerical PSA or SGC holder, crack it out and send it to one of them.

Sharp card, although I'm 99% sure it's trimmed; but nice card nonetheless.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Hasn't this card been on ebay for a year?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23419089888...Bk9SR_qduNjgYA

Lol

[aro13]

That might be the first holder that ASA used. An ET7 was not near mint but closer to EX I think. Considering Hager didn't start taking submissions right away, that is one of his own personally graded cards.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Hasn't this card been on ebay for a year?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23419089888...Bk9SR_qduNjgYA

Listed it over a year ago. My full-time job is anesthesia, card collecting is a hobby. I've been selling all my cards and memorbilia and donating the proceeds. I've got so much and trying to sort through what has value has been very time consuming.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by matt2002

Listed it over a year ago. My full-time job is anesthesia, card collecting is a hobby. I've been selling all my cards and memorbilia and donating the proceeds. I've got so much and trying to sort through what has value has been very time consuming.

You should disclose in the listing that the card is trimmed.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by G1911

You should disclose in the listing that the card is trimmed.

Just to make sure my understanding of grading abbreviations is clear, but I thought "ET" mean't Evidence of Trimming?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by matt2002

Just to make sure my understanding of grading abbreviations is clear, but I thought "ET" mean't Evidence of Trimming?

I apologize if I’m an idiot, what is the E in the advertisement for then? I thought it was just their prefix. Been awhile since I’ve cracked one of these…

[rdwyer]

Here's the only card Alan Hagar ever correctly slabbed.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Here's the only card Alan Hagar ever correctly slabbed.

Interesting to converse with people who knew Alan Hagar. So do you think my card has minimal value?

Just curious is Alan still alive?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by matt2002

Interesting to converse with people who knew Alan Hagar. So do you think my card has minimal value?

Just curious is Alan still alive?

I asked that above and one person PMd me they think he is.

My dealings with him were limited but memorable.

[rdwyer]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I asked that above and one person PMd me they think he is.

My dealings with him were limited but memorable. Just curious is Alan still alive?

Then there's a chance I can get him to reslab my card and leave out "Altered Reprint".

[53toppscollector]

An Adkins Piedmont in low grade will sell for $125-150, maybe more. If you want to sell the card, you should probably pay the $30 or whatever it is at SGC to get it graded, even if it grades an A, there are plenty of collectors who will pay a premium for nice looking cards in A holders. If by some small chance it isn't trimmed, then it looks like an SGC 4 or better, which will fetch a huge figure. But you are unlikely to get a big sum with the card in that holder.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

An Adkins Piedmont in low grade will sell for $125-150, maybe more. If you want to sell the card, you should probably pay the $30 or whatever it is at SGC to get it graded, even if it grades an A, there are plenty of collectors who will pay a premium for nice looking cards in A holders. If by some small chance it isn't trimmed, then it looks like an SGC 4 or better, which will fetch a huge figure. But you are unlikely to get a big sum with the card in that holder.

Thanks for the advice! It's an interesting topic. This card is the oddball in my collection. I enjoy learning about the history.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

Then there's a chance I can get him to reslab my card and leave out "Altered Reprint".

Lol if that happens, maybe you can get him to regrade mine.

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I asked that above and one person PMd me they think he is.

My dealings with him were limited but memorable.

Interesting!

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My dealings with him were limited but memorable.

Care to elaborate?

[Snowman]

That holder detracts from the value. It doesn't add to it. Crack it out ASAP. Being the first doesn't mean much when you show a counterfeit 52 Mantle in your holder in the ad photo lol. Send to SGC and check the "Slab if altered" box.

[Vintagedeputy]

I’ve been collecting cards for 45+ years, and I’ve never heard of Acu-card or whatever. I’d go SGC and if it gets an A, so be it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Care to elaborate?

Sure. So as you may recall, Alan's claim to fame was inventing the "arrowhead" holder. I believe he patented it and licensed the rights to PSA. At one point he was selling holders separately and while they were meant to be sealed, they snapped together really well and were great for moderately priced raw cards. I bought a bunch. When I ran out, I called and tried to order some more. Alan went insane, screamed at me that I couldn't buy them without purchasing a license to his patent, insisted that I was lying when I said I had previously bought some, demanded to know who I had spoken to about my prior order, etc. etc. He was truly livid and of course I got calmer and calmer which just seemed to incite him more. It was really weird.

[Jay Wolt]

Good stuff


Didn't he invent the 1 to 10 grading scale & the newer grading companies (like PSA) had to pay for use of that scale?

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sure. So as you may recall, Alan's claim to fame was inventing the "arrowhead" holder. I believe he patented it and licensed the rights to PSA. At one point he was selling holders separately and while they were meant to be sealed, they snapped together really well and were great for moderately priced raw cards. I bought a bunch. When I ran out, I called and tried to order some more. Alan went insane, screamed at me that I couldn't buy them without purchasing a license to his patent, insisted that I was lying when I said I had previously bought some, demanded to know who I had spoken to about my prior order, etc. etc. He was truly livid and of course I got calmer and calmer which just seemed to incite him more. It was really weird.

Wow! Quite comical to hear. I've met some people like that. SMH.

I ran across this in my search for more info about Alan. Don't know if this is his site. https://macablege.com/

[matt2002]

Originally Posted by Snowman

That holder detracts from the value. It doesn't add to it. Crack it out ASAP. Being the first doesn't mean much when you show a counterfeit 52 Mantle in your holder in the ad photo lol. Send to SGC and check the "Slab if altered" box.

LOL good point!

[matt2002]

Thanks to everyone for your input! Great to learn about the history of ACU and Alan Hager. Good or bad, I appreciate the open discussion with other card trading enthusiasts.

BTW this is a good read on PSA and ASA. Found this old post by Leon.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...03&postcount=1

[bobbvc]

I'd leave it as is for the nostalgia, secondly crack it out. Don't see the point in throwing another $30 into it for a PSA grade.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sure. So as you may recall, Alan's claim to fame was inventing the "arrowhead" holder. I believe he patented it and licensed the rights to PSA. At one point he was selling holders separately and while they were meant to be sealed, they snapped together really well and were great for moderately priced raw cards. I bought a bunch. When I ran out, I called and tried to order some more. Alan went insane, screamed at me that I couldn't buy them without purchasing a license to his patent, insisted that I was lying when I said I had previously bought some, demanded to know who I had spoken to about my prior order, etc. etc. He was truly livid and of course I got calmer and calmer which just seemed to incite him more. It was really weird.

I guess Hager forgot he placed an ad selling those holders. He placed the ad in his own book, though.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Eric yeah I recall that very ad. I’m sure that’s how I knew about them.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe they'd miss the alteration.

Only if there were perforations along each side.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by matt2002

My full-time job is anesthesia, card collecting is a hobby.

Just curious but is that the reason why you bought Doc Adkins card in the first place?

Anyways I would crack it out of the case for the following reasons:
1) it’ ll probably fail eBay’s Authenticity Guarantee ( I know because I bought a Babe Ruth card in an ASA slab. CSG failed it. The seller eventually had the card authenticated by CSG and sold it to someone else for twice the amount).
2) Historical reasons or not, I don’t think you’ll get the price that you’re currently asking for in its current slab.

Just my $0.02.

[refz]

I would sell it as is, def label it authentic but trimmed. I really don’t think it’s worth the time/$ to re-holder it just to have it come back “A” anyway and get a small sale.

This thread was very educational, I did not know some of these things regarding ASA.

[1880nonsports]

Alan would have salespeople dress in suits and carry his tome in an attaché case. They would sell his book, his cards, and more importantly his philosophy. Lots of pomp and little substance. The inflationary prices and fanciful projections were not of this earth. As it turns out though - he was kind of right.
What began with a grading/encapsulation process in the coin industry morphed into same for cards. It was suggested he would encapsulate cards and coins that were altered into his own tombs and sell them as uncleaned or unaltered. His reputation was let's just say not stellar and one can get a glimpse by searching a bit of the interweb. I spoke with him a few times - primarily after he moved to Florida related to cigarette packs and packaging. He actually had a table at a national maybe 8(?) years ago after an absence of about that much time. I have his book entrenched on my collectible bookshelf nestled in-between my Cashmanian coffee table book and Petrone's Tobacco Advertising The Great Seduction. Quite a character - many of the early hucksters were.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

The inflationary prices and fanciful projections were not of this earth. As it turns out though - he was kind of right.

I wonder what he's thinking when he sees PSA grading tens of millions of cards or the recent SGC '52 Mantle reach $12.5 million

[peterb69]

Reholder or not reholder. Hell, I’d be happy with that card raw

[aro13]

Hager is on ebay as maccointrading.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40348350151...Bk9SR8Sks5zhYA

[chalupacollects]

And he has his own sticker too!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36393623632...UAAOSwZBJhZaqp