Absolutely deplorable actions by a fellow forum member!

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by PWeso81

When is the due date? I can't believe a pending deal is getting this much attention.

I am looking for a Walter Johnson portrait (3,4 or 5). I will take it today, tomorrow or this May...as long as I get it.

Please PM me.

Thanks

Pat

Somehow you are missing whats really going on here. You say you want a Johnson in a 3, right? Ok. Lets say I PM you saying i'll sell you one for $1,000, but you have to wait 2 weeks before I can deliver it. You say "deal". Then I go on an auction site and bid on a PSA 3 Johnson with a max bid of $700. If I win it, I just pocketed an easy $300. If I DONT win it, I email you saying what? "Sorry, but I changed my mind"? Do you now see how this is unethical? I get a free chance at making a profit from you while you tie up your $1,000 and expect to own a Johnson in a 3? In those 2 weeks that you are waiting, you notice a Johnson in a 3 for sale at $750, but you dont buy it cuz you already made a deal with me, right? But you dont even know that you might not even get your $1,000 Johnson. What kind of deal is that???

[PWeso81]

I don't understand.

For some reason the buyer was OK with the 2 week lag. It doesn't take me 2 weeks to put a card into an envelope.

Not attacking...but red flags were thrown from the beginning of this deal.

As far as I am concerened...the seller has 2 weeks to produce. If that does not happpen...then we can continue with the (much desevered) bashing.

[JP]

Blunder is online, so maybe we'll get an explanation soon...

[PWeso81]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Somehow you are missing whats really going on here. You say you want a Johnson in a 3, right? Ok. Lets say I PM you saying i'll sell you one for $1,000, but you have to wait 2 weeks before I can deliver it. You say "deal". Then I go on an auction site and bid on a PSA 3 Johnson with a max bid of $700. If I win it, I just pocketed an easy $300. If I DONT win it, I email you saying what? "Sorry, but I changed my mind"? Do you now see how this is unethical? I get a free chance at making a profit from you while you tie up your $1,000 and expect to own a Johnson in a 3? In those 2 weeks that you are waiting, you notice a Johnson in a 3 for sale at $750, but you dont buy it cuz you already made a deal with me, right? But you dont even know that you might not even get your $1,000 Johnson. What kind of deal is that???

I don't say deal.

[dennis]

i'm with scott on the question of why didn't jamie just ask for a buying partner for the lot?? and not make himself look like a scammer. he posts on here a lot,so he should be smart enough to know he is going to be criticized immensely for this type of (scam)

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by PWeso81

I don't understand.

For some reason the buyer was OK with the 2 week lag. It doesn't take me 2 weeks to put a card into an envelope.

Not attacking...but red flags were thrown from the beginning of this deal.

As far as I am concerened...the seller has 2 weeks to produce. If that does not happpen...then we can continue with the (much desevered) bashing.

Im absolutely fine with that 2 week lag, as long as Im guaranteed to get that card after those 2 weeks are up. For example, lets say the seller had a deal in place with another forum member who happened to be on vacation. The deal was for 2 cards for $2600, but the guy wanted just to keep one. Now he needs to find a financial backer to buy the other one. So he lists on the BST that he has it for sale. Now he says to me that it will be 2 weeks till HE gets the card. Im fine with that....its a done deal. But dont tell me im getting the card in 2 weeks when its in an auction! There is no way he can guarantee that i'll be getting that card! Have you ever wanted to win an auction lot, but were outbid? Yeah, me too.

[JP]

Any way you slice it, it was going to be a hell of a lot more than 2 weeks. Auction closes in almost 20 days, then the time to get the funds to Heritage, and then get the items delivered....definitely at least the beginning of May.

[cbcbcb]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Somehow you are missing whats really going on here. You say you want a Johnson in a 3, right? Ok. Lets say I PM you saying i'll sell you one for $1,000, but you have to wait 2 weeks before I can deliver it. You say "deal". Then I go on an auction site and bid on a PSA 3 Johnson with a max bid of $700. If I win it, I just pocketed an easy $300. If I DONT win it, I email you saying what? "Sorry, but I changed my mind"? Do you now see how this is unethical? I get a free chance at making a profit from you while you tie up your $1,000 and expect to own a Johnson in a 3? In those 2 weeks that you are waiting, you notice a Johnson in a 3 for sale at $750, but you dont buy it cuz you already made a deal with me, right? But you dont even know that you might not even get your $1,000 Johnson. What kind of deal is that???

That is a risk someone has to be willing to take by agreeing to give the seller two weeks to sell. I don't think that is an agreement that would be unethical or wrong, but the buyer would have to be assured in some other manner of the seller's intentions to sell. I would say that in a perfect world, if such a deal were to happen, the inability of the seller to sell the card after two weeks would result in the seller paying an agreed some of damages for breach of contract. The buyer would take on a calculated risk of agreeing to buy a card at some future date, with the insurance that if the seller fails to come through, the buyer will receive something in return. However, on the internet, such an agreement would never happen and it would be too burdensome to legally enforce.

[Blunder19]

I have read only the first 1.5 pages of this thread. I had no idea this was going on(this thread) I am out now and will respond when I am home after reading this through. Anyone who has dealt with me can vouche for my ethics...just ask jerry T after I came through with our BL460 deal. Chicago I don't know what you have told these people. I was not looking to do one criminal thing. I wanted to find an auction partner. Any one who I responded to past a "hello" which was only 2 people... I told I did not own the card... I agreed on a price with chicago and plan on bying the card. A bit of a gamble because I could get stuck paying for more then I wanted for the seymour. I in no way was going to take money from him. And I am outraged that this board feels that's who I am... I have been part of this board for years...

If I advertised the card on the bst in a method not allowed then I am sorry for that.

Chicago you are insane for trying to make me out to be a criminal....

I will respond more when I have a chance to finish reading this thread.

Jamie

[AndyG09]

Interesting to see that Blunder is looking for a partner in the "REA Partnering" thread. Anybody interested?

[PWeso81]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Im absolutely fine with that 2 week lag, as long as Im guaranteed to get that card after those 2 weeks are up. For example, lets say the seller had a deal in place with another forum member who happened to be on vacation. The deal was for 2 cards for $2600, but the guy wanted just to keep one. Now he needs to find a financial backer to buy the other one. So he lists on the BST that he has it for sale. Now he says to me that it will be 2 weeks till HE gets the card. Im fine with that....its a done deal. But dont tell me im getting the card in 2 weeks when its in an auction! There is no way he can guarantee that i'll be getting that card! Have you ever wanted to win an auction lot, but were outbid? Yeah, me too.

Wow, you are really over thinking. I thought I was bad. Every time my wife pulls her car into the drive way I think...we could sell that for a nice Plank. I mean, after all...she is a school teacher and can take the school bus to work.

Anyway, It is obvious that you really want the card (ie...2 week waiting...$300 extra for insurance)...I can't argue your passion. I hope you get it.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

I have read only the first 1.5 pages of this thread. I had no idea this was going on(this thread) I am out now and will respond when I am home after reading this through. Anyone who has dealt with me can vouche for my ethics...just ask jerry T after I came through with our BL460 deal. Chicago I don't know what you have told these people. I was not looking to do one criminal thing. I wanted to find an auction partner. Any one who I responded to past a "hello" which was only 2 people... I told I did not own the card... I agreed on a price with chicago and plan on bying the card. A bit of a gamble because I could get stuck paying for more then I wanted for the seymour. I in no way was going to take money from him. And I am outraged that this board feels that's who I am... I have been part of this board for years...

If I advertised the card on the bst in a method not allowed then I am sorry for that.

Chicago you are insane for trying to make me out to be a criminal....

I will respond more when I have a chance to finish reading this thread.

Jamie

And when you have time, a couple of other questions Jamie. First, until you were "exposed" in your BST thread, you NEVER once mentioned that the card was in a current auction....why not?
Second, you guaranteed I would get the card in 2 weeks if I made a financial commitment to you for the $1300. How do you guarantee me a card thats currently in an auction?
Third, Had you not won the auction in "2 weeks", what would you have told me at that point after you had me tie up my money for a card you guaranteed would be mine?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Here is the exact timeline for the emails.

3/31---I send email requesting scans...no response.
4/2 ----I send 2nd request for scans
4/2---I get 1st response...tells me he is busy, card is still available and will talk to me later
4/2---I tell seller i'll pay $1300 for the card
4/3---Seller tells me he has much interest in the card and will forward scans to me
4/3---I tell seller my offer of $1300 is good till Monday as there is another card im thinking of buying
4/3---Seller tells me the card is mine at $1300.


Now you can turn this anyway you want, but these are the facts. By my count, thats 4 days worth of "negotiations". My initial request was simply for scans. I made my offer on day 3 of the negotiations, and to the best of my knowlege, the card was not yet "sold". Had it been sold, I seriously doubt that we would have gone through the rest of this "dance". You can be upset with me because my pockets may be a bit deeper than yours, I cant control that. Im willing to overpay for cards that I really want, and theres nothing unethical about that. But I can understand why you may be pissed about that, especially if you would like to buy a card at the lowest price possible. I dont concern myself too much on price, that extra $300 means very little to me....thats basically a sour 20 minute run at the blackjack table.

Chicago206, gecko109, Phil or whatever your name is, I am not "upset with you" or "pissed." I have no reason to be. I just know BS when I hear it. I also don't care how deep your pockets are, but it seems like you sure like to tell everybody how deep they are...

http://forums.collectors.com/message...ighlight_key=y

If your pockets are really that deep, then why are you slumming by looking at $194K houses when the median home price in Chicago is $238K?

[canjond]

I've dealt with Jamie in the past and had a good transaction. However, there is something that worries me about this, too - so feel I should speak up. I contacted Jamie last night (10:30pm) about the Uzit and asked for a scan. I received an email back almost immediately. The email I received stated as follows "top offer is 1300. Are you interested at 1400? If so I will send pic tomorrow." What worries me about this is if the card was already sold for $1300, what would have happened if I agreed to the transaction?

Again, my past dealings with Jamie have been good and I don't really want to be involved in a board fight (I'd rather stay out of it). However, I did not receive full disclosure that the cards was promised to someone else (however I did receive full disclosure that there was another buyer at $1300 so I could not fault Jamie there) and it sounds like the other potential buyer did not receive full disclosure (that his $1300 offer was the "floor.")

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by canjond

I've dealt with Jamie in the past and had a good transaction. However, there is something that worries me about this, too - so feel I should speak up. I contacted Jamie last night (10:30pm) about the Uzit and asked for a scan. I received an email back almost immediately. The email I received stated as follows "top offer is 1300. Are you interested at 1400? If so I will send pic tomorrow." What worries me about this is if the card was already sold for $1300, what would have happened if I agreed to the transaction?

Again, my past dealings with Jamie have been good and I don't really want to be involved in a board fight (I'd rather stay out of it). However, I did not receive full disclosure and it sounds like the other potential buyer did not receive full disclosure (that his $1300 offer was the "floor."

Jamie told me that I was "locked in" at $1300 and not to worry if he got an offer of $1400. Basically, the card was "sold" to me. This of course was BEFORE I had realized he was using me as leverage to bid on an auction lot!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Jamie told me that I was "locked in" at $1300 and not to worry if he got an offer of $1400.

Yes gecko, and somebody else was probably locked in at $1000 until your $1300 offer came along.

[Chicago206]

"If your pockets are really that deep, then why are you slumming by looking at $194K houses when the median home price in Chicago is $238K? "


Im not quite sure of your intent at embarassing me, perhaps Jamie is your buddy, but I digress. To answer your question, 4 years ago my wife and I had no kids, and we both enjoyed traveling as well as buying nice things (cars, gold/silver bullion, etc). The $194k house fit into our lifestyle very well at that time. It was a 2 bedroom ranch in a neighborhood full of city workers (im a Chicago firefighter). So it was safe, and large enough for us to be happy, yet the mortgage was small enough to allow us to do whatever we wanted to do...ie we wouldnt be "married to a mortgage". We ended up buying a bigger house not far from the one we wanted for $224k that was even nicer. The small difference in price didnt bother us, but in retrospect, its a good thing we didnt get the other one. My wife became pregnant with our son a few months after we closed on the home! We really appreciate the extra space now.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes gecko, and somebody else was probably locked in at $1000 until your $1300 offer came along.

Blame the seller for that, if its true. I had no knowlege of the card being sold already...if in fact it even was, as you speculate. You have a serious hard on for me though. Im beginning to see that much.

[carrigansghost]

I do not have deep pockets but will also overpay for cards that I really want.

Rawn

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by carrigansghost

I do not have deep pockets but will also overpay for cards that I really want.

Rawn

Likewise. However that is usually an auction style format. Sometimes we bid more than what we think the card may be worth to ensure that we win it when we know we are (or may be) in competition with others. A fixed price sale is totally different. The seller quotes his asking price and the buyer can either choose to purchase it or not. Until this day (and I've been collecting for 26 years) I have never heard of a buyer offer a seller 30% more (or any more) than his asking price on a card. It just doesn't make sense to me. In all my years of collecting I have never been at a show or in a shop and have a dealer quote me a price on a card and then turn around and offer him more than what he's asking. Am I missing something or is that just common practice?

[carrigansghost]

Don't get me wrong, I'm with the buyer here and would hold the seller to the agreed price.

Rawn

[bcornell]

2 threads in 2 weeks about 'BST problems' from the same guy. I've used it 100+ times in 6 years and have yet to have an issue with anyone. Either I'm lucky, or something else is the root cause.

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

[carrigansghost]

No problems with "BST" here either and no problems with ebay. Guess I'm one of the lucky few.

Rawn

[forazzurri2axz]

this originally posted by vintagetopps collector
Likewise. However that is usually an auction style format. Sometimes we bid more than what we think the card may be worth to ensure that we win it when we know we are (or may be) in competition with others. A fixed price sale is totally different. The seller quotes his asking price and the buyer can either choose to purchase it or not. Until this day (and I've been collecting for 26 years) I have never heard of a buyer offer a seller 30% more (or any more) than his asking price on a card. It just doesn't make sense to me. In all my years of collecting I have never been at a show or in a shop and have a dealer quote me a price on a card and then turn around and offer him more than what he's asking. Am I missing something or is that just common practice?

.... IFthe seller has a price and it SEEMS like he may be shopping around for a better price, and IF I really want the card, then at times I have offered more than the asking price to "finalize" the transaction and have the seller commit to me at that point...it seems to me that while his price may have originally been $1000.00, it was almost like a "make a best offer " type situation...my 2 cents

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by bcornell

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

The last 2-3 weeks haven't been fun.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by bcornell

2 threads in 2 weeks about 'BST problems' from the same guy. I've used it 100+ times in 6 years and have yet to have an issue with anyone. Either I'm lucky, or something else is the root cause.

This thread reminds me why my one year of moderating this forum was a lifetime's worth.


Bill

Yeah, its all my fault on this one. Shame on me for not wanting to be used as leverage for another guy's bid in an auction without being told thats what it was. By the way, perhaps you missed my follow-up on the other BST topic....it was a PUBLIC APOLOGY. Either you missed it, or convienently failed to mention it in your above post.

[carrigansghost]

Chicago, I think you are taking it wrong. It;s a reference to the drama on here and the morals of some that do business on the forum.

Rawn

[jb217676]

My understanding of this situation is Jamie is auctioning a card to the highest bidder before he actually owns the card. His thinking is, the higher the price he gets for the Uzit, the more money he has towards the other card he wants. If I were Chicago206, I would outbid Jamie on the pair and sell him the one he wants. Or another member with 'deep pockets' could win the pair and put an end to this story. That would be funny!

[scottglevy]

Just looked at the heritage auction being mentioned. Certainly seems like there are quite a few Uzit cards up for bids -- plenty to go around.

As for the drama.... While I have my thoughts, I'd rather just stay out of it and hope for a reasonable resolution for both involved.

Best,
Scott

[JP]

Jamie can feign innocence all he wants, but as you can read in the email he sent me (first or second page of this thread I believe) he purposefully omitted relevant information...like the fact it wasn't "for sale" but actually an auction. And he told me the high offer was $1300, indicating there was no deal in place, and that he'd roll over for any amount higher than that. All the way around he has been dishonest, an there is no suitable explanation that can explain that away.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Yeah, its all my fault on this one. Shame on me for not wanting to be used as leverage for another guy's bid in an auction without being told thats what it was. By the way, perhaps you missed my follow-up on the other BST topic....it was a PUBLIC APOLOGY. Either you missed it, or convienently failed to mention it in your above post.

Yeah, I missed it, but thanks for the all caps emphasis. I'll make sure I pay special attention to your weekly BST blowup in the new few days.

[Fred]

Choo- choo.... this is the Cannon Ball Express heading for "Train-Wreck Taverns"...

My 2 cents...

A quick recap -

• A T206 UZIT card is offered on BST for $1K.
  
• Potential buyer (person who started thread) agrees to $1.3K and delivery in a short period of time.
  
• Potential buyer finds out that seller doesn't own the card, rather the card is up for auction via Heritage Auctions. The delivery time of the card is prior to the end of the auction - How can that be. This rubs the buyer the wrong way and the potential buyer is pissed off enough to out the potential seller in this thread.
  
• New twist - someone else shows interest in the card and the potential seller tells that person that the card is theirs for $1.4K - now, that is really pushing the enveloped on the part of the potential seller.
  
• We are all waiting for the potential seller to respond to this thread.... I CAN'T WAIT....
  

Some people might think the actions of the seller are fine, as long as he follows through with the sale. Personally, I think it's a real bad way to do business, especially with another board member. What really makes this bad is the accusation that the potential seller would have taken more money for the card from someone else. If this is in fact true then I think that the potenial seller has a lot of explaining to do.

Doesn't common sense dictate that you can't sell what you don't own and you should honor your price on a card, even if you are offered more for it. GREED!!!!

The BST is caveat emptor. Actions like these will almost force the moderators to create rules for something that is supposed to be a friendly arena for trade.

Here's the link to the UZIT cards in question (being auctioned by Heritage):

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_ite...7&Lot_No=81043

I hope nobody gets upset that I posted the link but it's already common knowledge which card is in question and which auction house is selling it.

Potential Buyer = happy to make deal
Potenial Buyer = puzzled about potential sellers actions
Potential Buyer = pissed off after finding out what potential seller is up to

[ullmandds]

Definitely not an ethical way to do business in my opinion...but wow...look at all those uzits! I think Jamie is consulting with Tiger Wood's PR person prior to making his statement.

[oldjudge]

Maybe I missed the piece of information in the carnage, but why would a buyer be paying $1300 for a card that was offered at $1000? If the seller was crawfishing on the deal to start with, that was probably a good sign to walk away (run away) from dealing with him.

[Blunder19]

Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

Chicago,

First of all i dont appreciate how you have tried to blow this up into a huge deal. You have already needed to appoligize to the board once before for posting first and thinking second.

Here was my intentions: to win the auction and sell the card to Chicago for the agreed upon $1300, keeping the seymour for myself. Collecting the $1300 after I had won the auction. Thats it. I told Chicago that I DIDNT OWN THE CARD on April 2nd, here is the email sent to him then:
"Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1."

here is the email I sent today about Phil wanting me to put "sold" on bst :
" ..(I wont) put its sold until I have the card in hand. Which will be in a couple weeks. As I said I'm not looking for anyone else. So as long as my deal goes through. So will ours."

and my last email to him today:
"I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?"



Where is the scam there. Maybe I am wrong for assuming that I am going to win the auction. But I have a very good idea of what this SHOULD end at.. and what I was going to bid.... But the word scam means that I am looking to rip someone off.. which i have never done ever!.. i told you I didnt own the card April 2nd... and you RAISED your offer price AFTER I said that....how dare you start this thread Chicago.. go make more youtube videos of your backs if you want to waste time...

What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal... Chicago found out from ME that this was not my card and I needed to buy it from "another source".. i did not want to mention where.. because maybe he goes and bids on the lot and now I am weakening my chance to win the Seymour.

And I believe 2 one offs I wanted to address... I had no agreement with anyone else at 1000... just interest.. chicago was the only one I had an agreement with.. and as soon as we had an agreement I removed the ad from the bst saying I am no longer looking for a buyer.. so clearly planning on honoring my agreement with Chicago...
2nd someone said that I dont value my rep on this board..?.. I am on this board every day.. posting all the time... ofcourse I care about this board..

Jamie

[prestigecollectibles]

It seems to me there were only 2 choices.

1) Try to win the auction on your own and sell the card you didn't want later.
2) Out the auction by looking for a partner up front.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Jamie,

Your reply did not respond to the fact that you offered the card at $1400.

Both of you have a bit to be desired in how this whole thing is being handled.

Chicago, you are going to have to learn on this board if you are going to go after somebody there are going to be defenders both ways and your past rep will get brought up.

Who says you can't sell what you dont own ask Bernie madoff.

Lee

[ctownboy]

My two cents;

Sellers actions don't seem right. There HAD to be a better way of going about doing what he ultimately wanted to do; i.e., win an auction for two cards and sell the card he wasn't interested in.


As far as offering MORE for a card than a seller is asking, I can see it happening, ESPECIALLY if the seller says he wont have the card for two weeks. My take on that would be the seller was buying cards from someone else and might have a money squeeze going on OR the second seller is wavering about the sale price.

In either case the buyer, who is expecting the card in two weeks, could then think if he increases the amount he is willing to pay for the card he wants it will give the person he is buying the card from a little leverage in either getting the deal done or getting it done sooner.

What I wouldn't expect to be happening is that I was being used as a silent and unkown partner in an auction. If that were the case, I could just bid on the same two cards and, if I won them, sell the card I didn't want.

If I were being used like this, I would be upset too.

David

[whitehse]

Seems Chicago Gecko starts fights everywhere he goes and then throws around how much money he has to fight these fires he starts. (pun intended for the engineer from the Chicago Fire Department) This act gets old real fast and when I first saw him post here I just knew he was going to start fires here too!

[FUBAR]

Maybe i can make a suggestion... nothing can be sold or attempted to be sold on BST unless you own it outright, other then that, list it as an auction partnership.

I dont think Jamie was trying to scam anyone, I think we are all guilty of "assuming" people know what we mean when we say something. I think Jamie will be a little more careful next time as there are sharks lurking for every auction.

Chicago, i understand your point totally, but maybe before ranting and raving, use some discretion and try all means, including giving someone ample time to solve the issue without going overboard.

we all have too much drama in our lives with wives, kids, mortgages, etc

Cards should be drama free


Just my two cents worth, if it matters

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

Maybe i can make a suggestion... nothing can be sold or attempted to be sold on BST unless you own it outright, other then that, list it as an auction partnership.

+1

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

My two cents;

Sellers actions don't seem right. There HAD to be a better way of going about doing what he ultimately wanted to do; i.e., win an auction for two cards and sell the card he wasn't interested in.


As far as offering MORE for a card than a seller is asking, I can see it happening, ESPECIALLY if the seller says he wont have the card for two weeks. My take on that would be the seller was buying cards from someone else and might have a money squeeze going on OR the second seller is wavering about the sale price.

In either case the buyer, who is expecting the card in two weeks, could then think if he increases the amount he is willing to pay for the card he wants it will give the person he is buying the card from a little leverage in either getting the deal done or getting it done sooner.

What I wouldn't expect to be happening is that I was being used as a silent and unkown partner in an auction. If that were the case, I could just bid on the same two cards and, if I won them, sell the card I didn't want.

If I were being used like this, I would be upset too.

David

This is precisely what upset me...And Jamie was absolutely wrong in what he did. But rather than apologize, he is trying to defend these very lame actions.

[Chicago206]

Oh, and Jamie....I see you like to post snipets of our emails to try to defend what you did. Why dont you post....word for word....the actual emails in total we had? I can do it if you want. Lets show the forum that in over 12 emails to me, you never mention the card is part of an auction. You say in one email that "Im buying this card with another", but that could mean you have a deal in place with a dealer, another collector, or a buddy from college. The very LAST thing im thinking is "auction". You guaranteed me the card in 2 weeks if I was willing to commit $1300. How can you do that when the card is in an auction? You cannot guarantee you will be high bidder. At that point is when you should have told me that you "guarantee the card would be mine IF you were the high bidder". But you didnt.....instead, you continued your lies and deception. Now you come in here and accuse ME of being unreasonable? Take some responsibility for your own actions Jamie. You tried to deceive me.....not the other way around.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Blunder19

Back from being out all night...Time to stick up for myself. this will be a long one...
Before I start..If posting a card you do not own in the BST ..to find a "partner" in a auction is not allowed.. then I am sorry for that....i have never done it before so i wasnt sure.

Chicago,

First of all i dont appreciate how you have tried to blow this up into a huge deal. You have already needed to appoligize to the board once before for posting first and thinking second.

Here was my intentions: to win the auction and sell the card to Chicago for the agreed upon $1300, keeping the seymour for myself. Collecting the $1300 after I had won the auction. Thats it. I told Chicago that I DIDNT OWN THE CARD on April 2nd, here is the email sent to him then:
"Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1."

here is the email I sent today about Phil wanting me to put "sold" on bst :
" ..(I wont) put its sold until I have the card in hand. Which will be in a couple weeks. As I said I'm not looking for anyone else. So as long as my deal goes through. So will ours."

and my last email to him today:
"I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?"



Where is the scam there. Maybe I am wrong for assuming that I am going to win the auction. But I have a very good idea of what this SHOULD end at.. and what I was going to bid.... But the word scam means that I am looking to rip someone off.. which i have never done ever!.. i told you I didnt own the card April 2nd... and you RAISED your offer price AFTER I said that....how dare you start this thread Chicago.. go make more youtube videos of your backs if you want to waste time...

What if by some small percentage this auction went up to a rediculious amount? More then I was willing to pay..... Then I would have to appoligize because my deal fell through.. and look to make it up to him in a future deal... Chicago found out from ME that this was not my card and I needed to buy it from "another source".. i did not want to mention where.. because maybe he goes and bids on the lot and now I am weakening my chance to win the Seymour.

And I believe 2 one offs I wanted to address... I had no agreement with anyone else at 1000... just interest.. chicago was the only one I had an agreement with.. and as soon as we had an agreement I removed the ad from the bst saying I am no longer looking for a buyer.. so clearly planning on honoring my agreement with Chicago...
2nd someone said that I dont value my rep on this board..?.. I am on this board every day.. posting all the time... ofcourse I care about this board..

Jamie

Ok....enough of Jamie's lies. Not once did he ever say anything even similar to "as long as my deal goes through, so will ours". I strongly feel the need to list every word of every email regarding this matter. The newest is on top, the oldest at the bottom, so read from bottom, up.




Re: Uzit...second request‏
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Sent: Sat 4/03/10 6:38 PM
To: phil wyantt (golddigger10932@hotmail.com)

There is no answer because that situation wouldn't have come up because I told u today I need to buy the card first.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:35:14 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Im really not either. It was just an honest question. I wanted to know what excuse you were gonna give me if you didnt win that auction lot. Thats not alot to ask, is it?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:22:37 +0000

Phil I'm not big into back and forth crap so good luck with your collecting.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:18:50 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request



Have you ever "planned on winning an auction", but it didnt happen? Yeah, me too! You guaranteed I would get the card if I committed to pay the $1300. When the auction ended in 19 days, and if you were not the winner, what did you plan on telling me Jamie??? Im VERY curious to know!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:09:42 +0000

Sorry u feel mislead u. All I was trying to do is find a buyer for a card that I am going to buy but don't want. I am planning on winning this card. And I didn't let u wait 2 weeks because I told u today I needed to buy it first. I will just look for someone else. Sry to have wasted ur time. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:55:41 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request



Go back and read our emails.....Now answer the following question:

Under what circumstances was I willing to wait 2 weeks? AS LONG AS YOU GUARANTEED I OWNED THE CARD!

Correct or no? I did not agree to wait 2 weeks to SEE IF I GET THE CARD. Correct or no?

Furthermore, since the auction doesnt end for 19 days, and it will take at least another 5-7 days before you actually get the card, we are talking closer to a month than 2 weeks, arent we?

You tried to use me as leverage to buy an auction lot without telling me so. If I did go along with it, not knowing, and you were NOT the winner of that auction, then what? You come here to tell me "sorry, tough luck"? Tell me that after I have commited my money to you??? And you see nothing wrong there? Wow!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:46:23 +0000

Phil I don't follow. If I get the card I was looking to sell it to someone interested. I wasn't taking your money until I have the card in hand. If your not interested in waiting 2 weeks then why did you tell me you were? Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:42:58 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Unreal Jamie. VERY deceptive thing you did. Im only willing to wait 2 weeks because you GUARANTEED it would be mine. How do you guarantee a card thats in a live auction? Im not going to commit my money, and pass on other deals so that I MIGHT get the card IF you place the winning bid. You should have been more upfront with me....you should not have guaranteed the card to me if I commited to you. And thats what you did. Reread our emails...I was very clear that I dont mind waiting as long as it was a sure thing. Next time look for an "auction buddy" so that he at least understands there is a chance he wont get the card. Thanks anyway.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 22:18:04 +0000

I took down the Uzit post. I will need notice if you for some reason need to back out. Because then I have to find someone else interested. So you 100% want the uzit for 1300 right?

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:08:06 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


The sharks are in a feeding frenzy in your BST ad. Im doing everything in my power to restrain myself from posting that I bought it. Perhaps it would be best for you to state the card has sold?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:55:00 +0000

Ok good. I'll keep you posted.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:26:19 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Its a deal Jamie! Im in no hurry as long as I know its mine..:-). Consider the deal done.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 20:10:17 +0000

Also you have my word that even if someone else were to offer 1400 for example.. I would turn it down.

So no worries on that front. As long as you are ok with waiting 2 weeks.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:04:57 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


As long as I have your word that its mine....I have zero problems waiting the couple of weeks. Just let me know when it arrives, and i'll get a bank check out to you that day. Not sure if you saw my thread I posted yesterday, but I have just completed the 15 brands backs collection. Of the 15 cards, all are graded but 1....its a super beater Uzit that I was able to buy for $300 as a filler. Today feels great as now I have a decent example of an Uzit. I thank you for the opportunity!


Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 19:50:20 +0000

Phil
I would prefer certified bank check..so I don't have paypal fees.. Paypal is fine if you want to do is as a gift... Or add 3%... But hold off on paying until I get it in the mail. It may be as long as 2 weeks. But I will not go around looking for anyone else. If you have a problem waiting 2 weeks.. Let me know so I can look for someone else.

Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 14:45:08 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


I'll take it. How do you want payment?

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 13:14:02 -0400
From: blunder19@aol.com


Phil,

Heres the scans.. let me know if you are in at 1300.... and I will not seek out anyone else.

jamie





-----Original Message-----
From: phil wyantt
To: blunder19@aol.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 3, 2010 12:29 pm
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Hey Jamie. Just writing to let you know that my offer of $1300 is solid until Monday morning. Hopefully you will know by then. Although I badly want the card for my backs collection, I have been presented with another fantastic opportunity for a card I want as well (but your Uzit is my priority). Hate to wait longer than Monday just to hear someone else offered higher on your Uzit, and then lose this other opportunity as well, im sure you understand my dilemma. The sooner, the better on letting me know if I own the Uzit at $1300. Thanks.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:58:16 +0000

Let me send u the scans 1st. I also have other people that I promised to send the pic to. So to be fair to them I have to hear what they want to pay. I will not make any decisions without letting you know what's going on. U seem very interested, and I know the feeling.
Jamie Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 20:39:40 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Consider it sold to me at $1300 as long as it has decent eye appeal for a 1. I dont care about creases at all, I just hate paper loss. If the card looks sharp for a 1, I will take it at $1300. Let me know if this is ok with you.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:20:51 +0000

Phil.

The card is being sold with a second card that I want. I have no interest in the jennings uzit. So after I receive the jennings I'm looking to have someone to send it to right away... The card is a very good 1. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:40:06 -0500
To:
Subject: RE: Uzit...second request


Thanks for the reply Jaime. If the card is a higher end 1, I wouldnt mind spending $1,300 on it. Just keep that in mind before selling it. Talk with you tomorrow.

Phil


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: golddigger10932@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Uzit...second request
From: BLUNDER19@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 00:35:53 +0000

Phil I am busy with quarter end work... I am not free until tomorrow. I will catch up on baseball stuff tomorrow... I have many people interested in getting the card. Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: phil wyantt
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 19:17:56 -0500
To:
Subject: Uzit...second request


Hi Jamie. This is my 2nd request to see the Uzit. Let me know whats going on when you get the chance as I'd like to own the card. Thanks.

Phil

[Tcards-Please]

I can certainly understand why Chicago is upset. Nowhere in Jamie's write up does he list this as needing an "auction partner". If he had disclosed that information, this could have been handled a lot earlier. Leon asked if he could post a scan and he didn't respond to that. Dan asked if he owns the card, again no response. People were trying to asertain information because the "seller" wasn't being forthright in the ad. He was holding people to their word, when he wasn't with his. How long would he have continued to shop the card that he didn't own? What if the buyer was really interested in another card that he couldn't now afford because he had $1300.00 locked up on this only to have the "seller" of the UZIT card (which he didn't own) come back 2 days later to say oh, thank you for your interest, but someone else just offered me $1400.00.

I agree that you shouldn't be able to post anything for sale on the BST unless you have the card in hand. If you are looking for a partner, say so, don't be deceptive.

I have no dog in this fight, but as a frequent buyer on the BST, I certainly would be pi$$ed if this were me. But again, I would have been a little suspect if I didn't get the card for the original $1000.00 that the seller agreed to on the original post.

r/
Frank

[jp1216]

unreal - what a way to wake up on Easter morning...

10 pages later - now I'm awake...

My 2 cents - Jamie was looking for an auction buddy. He didn't want others to know and lose out on the card he wanted from the lot. Improper post in a B/S/T to begin with and very misleading. It read that first one to email Jamie and pay 1K would get the card.

Chicago requested scans and sensed Jamie was unsure who to sell the card to and upped the amount to 1.3K to seal the deal. Nothing really wrong with what Chicago did - unless he knew the card was already promised to someone else for 1K. I don't believe that is the case.

Chicago - email exchanges from you and Jamie were helpful - but they are also private in a sense. You posted yours and his email address for everyone to see. Please edit and remove them at the very least.

My opinion is that Jamie made a mistake, and Chicago gets too excited. Let's move on.

BTW - anyone looking for a partner is the upcoming HA auctions. I hear there are some Uzits....

[JP]

It's obvious from those emails, and the email he sent me, that Jamie was well aware of what key words to omit so as to not raise suspicion. He knew that listing for sale something he didn't own was not right. Hopefully he can't plead ignorance and get away with it.

Jamie also never had any intention of keeping his word to Phil. Check out the last line in his email to me. He obviously was looking for more than the $1300 he had already agreed to with Phil. "The high guy right now is at 1300. I will send picks if your still interested."

[Potomac Yank]

"Blunder's, Blunder"

[Rich Klein]

I was told "Blue Chip" did the exact same thing. They would run these big ads in BHN; then when they got orders; would go to shows and pay for the cards they had sold. Nice business; get $ in hand; sell cards for less than you sold them for.

And yes, I sold a lot of cards to "BC" that way; but it was an interesting concept.

Rich

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I was told "Blue Chip" did the exact same thing. They would run these big ads in BHN; then when they got orders; would go to shows and pay for the cards they had sold. Nice business; get $ in hand; sell cards for less than you sold them for.

And yes, I sold a lot of cards to "BC" that way; but it was an interesting concept.

Rich

Rich,

An interesting idea, absolutely, not a problem with doing that as long as you are on the up and up with your intentions. Don't advertise a card for $1000.00, then behind the scenes take offers. He was tying up peoples money for an uncertainty that was another 3 weeks away. Full disclosure on the BST should be a must.

r/
Frank