Possible variation T205 Nee Printers mark on card vs No printers mark

Oh believe me guys I don't think this card is worth any more than the $125 I paid for it. I was more interested in hearing the opinions of what you guys thought. As far as printers marks on card for cutting reasons is valid but what about some of thos gold less T205's that had none and not all of them have marks. I think it was Leon that had scans of them before. Even the off cut T205's that have tops or bottoms of cards showing don't have them.

Peter I definitely am not envious of the T206's I am glad my 205's fly under the radar. Makes it easier to get for cheaper and they hold value better IMO. Any givin day I could buy 60% of a t206 set. Try getting 30% in a week on T205's. It took me 8 months to hit 50% and I was buying alot. Granit they need to be 4's+ but they are just not as many.

I enjoy dragging up this because it seems the only way to break the monotony and actually learn more about the cards. They are not discussed very much and not a whole lot is known. Maybe there is, but I enjoy learning what I can about the hobby.

[Bridwell]

Jon,
Thanks for that scan of the T207 Adams. Very interesting that the sheet would be printed like that!

Andrew (and all),
I enjoy that collectors can find interesting subsets to collect. T206 has many of them, but T205 does also. I never thought anyone would be collecting cards with printers marks. I wouldn't ever call these 'proofs'. It's an unusal variation to be interested in. But that's what makes this hobby so much fun. I never thought anybody would collect miscut T206's, but look how popular those are getting!

Ron

[teetwoohsix]

Have there ever been any T205 proofs found? If so, does anyone have a scan of one? Thanks-

Clayton

Clayton I think Leon and Josh have a few. Maybe they will be kind enough to post them

[ullmandds]

T205 proofs? not sure I've ever seen one of those...Leone and many others have T206 Proofs.

[teetwoohsix]

Yes, I believe Leon has the T206 Matty proof. I did read in the archives about some blank back T205's but I don't think they were regarded as proofs.

Clayton

[tbob]

Jon- thanks so much for the scan of the T207 Adams. All these years collecting them and I never even thought a row might have been printed horizontally instead of all vertically. Interesting!
As far as a T205 proof goes, years ago I had a card in my collection which was a blank backed T205 which I thought might have been a proof. It did not have any printer's marks on it though so I assumed maybe it was just printer's scrap. I wish I could post a scan but I sold it on ebay 10 years ago. That's the closest I've seen to a card which I thought might be a proof.
On the subject of "proofs"- I do have an M116 Sporting Life which may be a proof and I'll get around to posting a scan of it when I go through the safes. It is a Mitchell and is black and white and printed on thinner paper than the normal M116. Some collectors have spotted color M116s with no printing on the backs and have jumped to the conclusion they are proofs but they appear to be (usually) hand cut off advertising posters, etc. This is the first (and only) black and white M116 I have seen and is reminiscent of the black and white E97s.
tbob

[steve B]

I had a look at some other Newark cards on Ebay earlier today. Lee has a similar mark, or is without a mark. The two with and without mark also show a difference of the gold at the lower left corner.

Just like on the Obak sheet from a different printer, the cutting marks wouldn't have been on every card.

Steve B

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Oh believe me guys I don't think this card is worth any more than the $125 I paid for it. I was more interested in hearing the opinions of what you guys thought. As far as printers marks on card for cutting reasons is valid but what about some of thos gold less T205's that had none and not all of them have marks. I think it was Leon that had scans of them before. Even the off cut T205's that have tops or bottoms of cards showing don't have them.

Peter I definitely am not envious of the T206's I am glad my 205's fly under the radar. Makes it easier to get for cheaper and they hold value better IMO. Any givin day I could buy 60% of a t206 set. Try getting 30% in a week on T205's. It took me 8 months to hit 50% and I was buying alot. Granit they need to be 4's+ but they are just not as many.

I enjoy dragging up this because it seems the only way to break the monotony and actually learn more about the cards. They are not discussed very much and not a whole lot is known. Maybe there is, but I enjoy learning what I can about the hobby.

[sb1]

You will not find a T205 with printer alignment marks on the gold border, they will only be found in the white area of the Minor league cards or on cards where the gold was never applied, as the marks were printed on the sheets before the gold was applied. I have a Frick with a large crosshair on the bottom border.

[tedzan]

Regarding your question......
" Ted - T207s, I thought, were printed at ALC? "

It's my guess that these two 1912 sets, T207 & Canadian Tobacco set (C46), were produced by a different printer contracted out by ATC.
A printer that had barrels of Brown ink

So, it's my opinion, that the T207's were not produced by American Litho. Both of these sets do not fit the American Litho. style or format.
The T207 lacks the major Stars that were in the T206 & T205 sets. Furthermore, the T207 is made up of many obscure players not found in
those preceding sets. Factors such as these (and some others) have led me to this conclusion.

But. I'm sure others may differ.

Regards,

TED Z

[jimonym]

Jon,

Here's a point to consider. I've seen thousands and thousands of T206s (as has anyone who's been interested and connected to the Internet for any amount of time). I've seen + owned, probably, several dozen that were "diamond" cut. In every case the sides of the card were cut true and it was the top and bottom which were cut at a parallel angle other than a true perpendicular to the sides. Could that tell us anything about the order of the cuts when the sheet was put through the cutting machine?

If T206s had a row, or more, or horizontally-positioned cards, I cannot see how the horizontal cut could not be first and the vertical cut second.

In other words, if someone could posit an explanation for "diamond" cuts always affecting the tops and bottoms of T206s and not the sides, perhaps that would tell us whether a horizontally-positioned row was possible, or can be ruled out.

[teetwoohsix]

I've often wondered about these diamond cut T206's.......the way they are cut would make me think that maybe at least a couple of the cards at whichever end of the sheet would've had part of the picture (beyond the white border) chopped off. Does that make sense?

Edit to add: I apologize- didn't mean to derail this thread.

Clayton

[steve B]

The diamond cuts do tell us the order of cuts.

for the typical diamond cut to happen, the sheet would first be cut into strips along the tall sides. Then the strips would have either been put aside, or moved to another cutter that was set for cutting the vertical dimension.
The cutters have an adjustable backsyop that a stack gets pushed against, and usually a side plate that the cards also get pushed against. But a longish strip of cards in a stack of probably about 200 or so is a bit unweildy.

On a modern cutter this is handled by having the back plate be movable. So a sheet or strip (Always in a stack, it wouldn't be done as just one sheet)
is aligned, the waste from one end is cut off, then the plate is moved forward and a stack of cards gets cut off. A good operator will often put in multiple strips if the alignment isn't critical and if there's a big rush to get a batch done.

So for the diamond cuts, either a less adjustable machine was used, or the strip wasn't aligned straight. More likely the latter since the diamond cuts are usually paralell.

There's other interesting stuff that happens to the cuts, One of my cards was rejected as miscut top and bottom edge. When I looked closely, I noticed the cut had a very pronounced lip with a good bit of chipping on the back. It's likely that card was from the bottom of the stack and either the blade or the blade stop strip was worn.

Steve B