O/T 2012 Hall of fame. your vote?

[mannybb24]

Sounds like 2012 would be a good year to finally get Buck O'Neil and a few other Negro Leaguers a plaque in Cooperstown.

[packs]

I think that vote would have to come from the Veterans Committee, right? Not sure if they're voting this year.

[nebboy]

Originally Posted by mannybb24

Sounds like 2012 would be a good year to finally get Buck O'Neil and a few other Negro Leaguers a plaque in Cooperstown.

That would put the biggest smile on my face if BUCK could get some love from the man!! Or on the next possiable vote.

Also I'd be a voter for Lee Smith.

[prewarsports]

Like it or not, the DH is a legitimate position in baseball, MORE important to any AL team as an average fielder with the same offensive numbers. Edgar Martinez is the best DH in the history of Baseball. How many other legitimate positions have the best EVER player not in the Hall of Fame?

Edgar Martinez should be a Hall of Famer and if you dont like that, take it up with the Commissioner and have the rules changed. Saying he is not a Hall of Famer is like excluding Closers because they only pitch in 60 games a year and for less than 100 innings.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Like it or not, the DH is a legitimate position in baseball, MORE important to any AL team as an average fielder with the same offensive numbers. Edgar Martinez is the best DH in the history of Baseball. How many other legitimate positions have the best EVER player not in the Hall of Fame?

Edgar Martinez should be a Hall of Famer and if you dont like that, take it up with the Commissioner and have the rules changed. Saying he is not a Hall of Famer is like excluding Closers because they only pitch in 60 games a year and for less than 100 innings.

The problem with that statement is that DH is not a legitimate position. It's a generic position for hitters who can't do anything else. Forget the "designated" part, he's just a hitter. His stats must be compared to everyone who's ever stepped up to the plate, whether they played the field or not... The only way he could be the Best DH EVER, is if he were the Best Hitter Ever... His best bet would be for everyone to forget about what he ACTUALLY was, and compare him only to those at his natural position of Third Base, otherwise he must be compared to EVERYONE...

Now I know, I've been the big voice against Edgar in these forums, but the truth is, I believe he does belong in the Hall, BUT based on these inevitable truths, there are a good many players that I believe should get in before him...And I'd rather focus on them, instead of showing blind misguided love for a player who many people really don't fully understand what he truly was..

[Robextend]

I am not sure who played more games at DH, but Frank Thomas was better than Edgar Martinez. Thomas will most likely get in on the 1st ballot because his stats are just too overwhelming, but I do not think Martinez is the greatest DH of all time.

I also agree that on hitting alone, Martinez is a Hall of Famer. However, defense should definitely be some kind of factor when deciding if a player is HOF worthy.

[joeadcock]

Bagwell likely
Larkin maybe
Santo likely
Martinez ?
Morris ?

[rdixon1208]

DH is not a position. You're just a hitter, and Edgar Martinez isn't the greatest hitter of all time.

I say Bagwell and Biggio should go in together in 2013.

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Like it or not, the DH is a legitimate position in baseball, MORE important to any AL team as an average fielder with the same offensive numbers. Edgar Martinez is the best DH in the history of Baseball. How many other legitimate positions have the best EVER player not in the Hall of Fame?

Edgar Martinez should be a Hall of Famer and if you dont like that, take it up with the Commissioner and have the rules changed. Saying he is not a Hall of Famer is like excluding Closers because they only pitch in 60 games a year and for less than 100 innings.

[howard38]

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[Bobsbats]

Larkin ~ in
Morris ~ in
L.Smith ~ in
Bagwell ~ no

I have a question...why is Albert Belle NOT in the HOF ? I hope it's not because he was a jerk. To my knowledge he was never impimplicated in BALCO.
His numbers are HOF worthy, but nothing.... I was told by a member of the HOF staff that he isn't on the ballot because he didn't receive the minimum percentage...????? That's nuts if it's true. His 12Yr. Career averages .295 40 hr. 130 Rbi's ....if not implicated in Roids...its ridiculous that he is not in.

After looking at the numbers, if anyone from from the Steroid era should get in,
R. Palmerio has the numbers...but he won't get in.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Bobsbats

Larkin ~ in
Morris ~ in
L.Smith ~ in
Bagwell ~ no

I have a question...why is Albert Belle NOT in the HOF ? I hope it's not because he was a jerk. To my knowledge he was never impimplicated in BALCO.
His numbers are HOF worthy, but nothing.... I was told by a member of the HOF staff that he isn't on the ballot because he didn't receive the minimum percentage...????? That's nuts if its true.

After looking at the numbers, if anyone from from the Steroid era should get in,
R. Palmerio has the numbers...but he won't get in.

As far as Albert goes. They say the minimum years to be eligible is 10, getting in with the minimum time is for extreme cases. I'm actually a huge advocate of getting Albert into the Hall, but I don't think it'll ever happen. As far as Albert's number are concerned, he had one of the better 9 year stretches that I can remember in recent history, and had there not been a bit of a fall off in that 10th full season, it would be easy to argue that his career was shortened by injury.. But unfortunately his 2000 season was just downhill enough that people can try to claim that he was done.. Right or wrong, he was kind of a d!ck, and it just fuels people even more to make excuses against him..

Now just for comparison, Belle had 389 HR's and 1239 RBI's, while Edgar had 309 HR's and 1261 RBI's, Belle also did so in 500 less games.. Also for comparison, Pujols currently has 120 more games than Belle, with 438 and 1306..

162 game averages
Pujols- 43, 127
Belle- 40, 130
Edgar- 24, 99
Griffey- 38, 111
Thomas- 36, 119
Mantle- 36,102
Mays- 26, 103
Aaron-37, 113
A-Rod-43, 128
T. Williams- 37, 130
Sosa-42, 115
McGwire-50, 122
Thome-40, 110

[FrankWakefield]

As a kid in the early 60s, I recall getting my first real baseball book, My Greatest Day in Baseball, by John Carmichael. Obviously, it was what would now be thought of as an old edition. Those old guys were ballplayers. I think it is something in us that makes us want to have seen some superstar in our times that is the modern equivalent of Ruth, Johnson, Mathewson, Gehrig, Young, Lajoie, Speaker, Cobb, Waddell or Wagner. But the truth is that the guys we see today, and those we saw 5 years ago, for the most part, have no business being compared to those ten. Most modern stars aren't worthy of carrying their jock straps to the laundry room.

We want to have seen superstars too... and that drive is what's put the screws to the Hall. Imagine that if we all went to baseball heaven, where there are 4 fields adjacent to each other, with bp being pitched on each field, and the 4 players who are taking their cuts on those 4 fields are Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Gary Carter, and Kirby Puckett... to which fields will the true fanatics of baseball flock? And which 2 fields will have empty seats immediately behind the plate?

I've not looked at a modern edition of My Greatest Day in Baseball, but I'm sure that it would have modern players in it. Belle, Larkin, Martinez, Morris were really good players, but they fall far short of my concept of what a Hall of Famer should be. My concept is evidently in the minority (which doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong) because a bunch of merely very good ballplayers have already made it into the Hall. So I think it is getting close to the point of being meaningless... screw it, let everyone who made it to the majors into the Hall (excepting Rose and the other banned guys). And for good measure, anyone who didn't make it up but was there for spring training 3 seasons or more, put them in too. And the horses they rode in on.