Future pre-war card scam...

[johnmh71]

After giving some thought to what was posted last night, I withdrew my bid for the following reasons:

1. I am trying to build a solid reputation on both ebay and this site. Having my name associated as a bid on this type of lot does not help that, regardless of my intentions.

2. No one appointed me to be the cop of the hobby.

3. I usually purchase items to add to my collection, not to destroy them.

I did however report the lot to ebay. It is something that could lead to fraudulent activity, which is what got me fired up in the first place. I hope they take action and remove it.

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

At a time in the not so distant past, wrappers were thought to have little if any value. One might surmise that used wax wrappers could only be used to rewrap cards and then sell them as unopened packs. This would NOT be the fault of the seller. There is nothing wrong with selling your own plastic holders and flips, and indeed one day they might have some collectible value.

I don't think this seller, member or not, is doing anything wrong. I also think he is letting us all know that tpg services don't care or give a shite about the whole security issue. If they did the tpg's would want the used flips and slabs off the market. Obviously they don't.

I realize I am in the minority here, just don't think the guy trying to prove a point, (about the lack of concern of tpg's) and trying to recoup some funds by seeling off the Potentially collectible flips and slabs is wrong.

OK....let's hear it! Dave.

Ladies and gentleman, we have our seller! LOL

Originally Posted by johnmh71

I do plan on buying them without going crazy on the price and I'll smash them to bits. I hate liars, frauds, and scammers. There is way too much of that crap in the hobby already.

Please provide pictures as evidence of the carnage.

Edit: Nevermind. I'm reporting it to ebay as well

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Please provide pictures as evidence of the carnage.

He changed his mind and thought it unwise...

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

He changed his mind and thought it unwise...

Thanks, I should have read on

[murcerfan]

What ever happened to sending your flips back to the TPG's with a note to correct the population reports ??. Back in the olden times, that's what we did.

Oh, that's right the "hobby" now is just flippin' cards as fast as the mail can deliver them.

[chipperhank44]

Originally Posted by brewing

While I agree with the concerns. I believe SGC and PSA should make cases that are more tamper resistant. While I abhor the quality of Becket vintage grading, their cases are tamper resistant.

+1

tamper proof > tamper evident

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by uffda51

Buy the holder, not the card . . .

Lol

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by murcerfan

Oh, that's right the "hobby" now is just flippin' cards as fast as the mail can deliver them.

Well said.

[Wite3]

I am just shocked that Jim actually managed to include a photo...those of us who have done business with Jim in the past know he was notorious for never posting scans or pictures...

Joshua

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Ladies and gentleman, we have our seller! LOL

Ladies and gentlemen, we have our azzhole! (laugh out loudest)

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

If you guys cared so much, why not just pay the $10 for them and destroy them.

then the next guy will post them.... by buying them you will create a market for them.

kevin

[Fred]

Well, if there's one thing to consider. Anyone that knows Jim knows that he's never let a money making opportunity get by him. This is a bit disappointing...

[ramram]

Originally Posted by Fred

Well, if there's one thing to consider. Anyone that knows Jim knows that he's never let a money making opportunity get by him. This is a bit disappointing...

Nor will he likely see this thread. I don't think he has ever posted outside of the Buy/Sell section.

Rob M.

[JMANOS]

They could have cared less when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission. I was treated very poor by the customer service folk at both company's. Maybe you people should question them? Lastly, I have a special needs person sell items for me and his spelling is weak to poor so I am sorry you have to read his description. Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards I sell them, sorry.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by JMANOS

They could have cared less when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission. I was treated very poor by the customer service folk at both company's. Maybe you people should question them? Lastly, I have a special needs person sell items for me and his spelling is weak to poor so I am sorry you have to read his description. Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards I sell them, sorry.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a similar experience. I drank a twelve pack of Bud and afterwards called Anheuser Busch to see if they were willing to buy their empty cans back and I was treated rude by customer service. Those damn companies!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a similar experience. I drank a twelve pack of Bud and afterwards called Anheuser Busch to see if they were willing to buy their empty cans back and I was treated rude by customer service. Those damn companies!

LOL David.

Jim, that makes no sense are you sure you’re not the one with special needs here (kidding)?

Please explain why it would it be a company’s responsibility to give you a cash discount off new services for handing over broken packaging from previous services?

Do you do this with other companies as well like David joked about? Do you go back to Wal-Mart with your empty Oscar Meyer packages at checkout and ask for a few bucks off the total purchase of your new hot dogs for the big picnic? To put it in more regulatory terms do you return your old driver’s license and or passports when you get new ones and ask for a few bucks off? Sorry but I’m having a hard time following your logic.

I do agree with you that TPG’s if they are going to have population reports should make an effort to keep them maintained to the best of their ability. But that doesn’t mean they should pay you for it they don’t have a recycling program I don’t see homeless dudes with shopping carts full of PSA cases trading them in for booze.

As far as you listing them whatever it’s a free market you can list and sell whatever you want. I can see people’s concerns. However I think are bigger concerns to be had than some beat up broken cases on eBay being sold for a few bucks.

I just fail to see how this is being turned back to the TPG’s as their problem, when it’s just a case of single person trying to make an extra buck off worthless garbage…which is basically eBay in a nutshell.

Cheers,

John

[smtjoy]

Funny blame the grading companies, lol. Ok then just throw the labels away, end of story. Then there is no worry that someone will try to reseal the slab with the real labels, which is what's causing everyone to get upset.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Funny blame the grading companies, lol. Ok then just throw the labels away, end of story. Then there is no worry that someone will try to reseal the slab with the real labels, which is what's causing everyone to get upset.

I don't think he even cares about that...he just wants to make sure the population reports are accurate.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't think he even cares about that...he just wants to make sure the population reports are accurate.

He really cares about these pop reports....in fact you can't even put a price on the level of concern Jim has on this issue....oh wait you can it's $12.

[jhs5120]

You seriously got pissed because they wouldn't send you $12 for your flips? I send them in a PWE $.50 and done.

Also, I hope you pay the challenged kid you have working for you.

[conor912]

Holy crap! Nine bids so far...

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by JMANOS

They could have cared less (Should be "couldn't" have cared less) when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? (Why the question marks??) All I asked for was a free $12 dollar (Why are you using both a dollar sign and the word "dollar"??) submission. I was treated very poor (poorly) by the customer service folk at both company's (Do you mean "companies"?). Maybe you people should question them? (Why the question mark??) Lastly, I have a special needs person sell (selling) items for me and his spelling is weak to poor (Do you just hate inserting commas?) so I am sorry you have to read his description (descriptions). Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then (than) that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards (How about a period or comma here?) I sell them, (How about a period here?) sorry.

First of all, anyone selling these cases is an obvious scammer. He knows EXACTLY what someone is going to do with them. F##k him!!

But what I find hysterical is how he blames someone else for their spelling, but just ignores the fact that he himself has no grasp on the English language (see notes above). And I only took a quick glance.

[the 'stache]

[ctownboy]

WOW. Just WOW.

I would think if someone was so worried about correct population reports that if they didn't get the answer they wanted (or the proper customer service) then all they would have to do is get a box, put the holders in it, write a short note and then mail the box, addressed to Joe Orlando, to PSA (via First Class mail).

Not much time, effort or money involved and the proper thing will have been done.

David

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

WOW. Just WOW.

I would think if someone was so worried about correct population reports that if they didn't get the answer they wanted (or the proper customer service) then all they would have to do is get a box, put the holders in it, write a short note and then mail the box, addressed to Joe Orlando, to PSA (via First Class mail).

Not much time, effort or money involved and the proper thing will have been done.

David

David, Jim tried that but neither USPS, Fed Ex or UPS would give him a credit for the old boxes and labels he had towards this new shipment. Seems the whole system is just against him.

Cheers,

John

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The seller's name is Jim Manos.

Brian

I am shocked. SHOCKED!

Or, not. Jim does his own thing - I don't think he cares much about the hobby and certainly not at all about insults lobbed his way, as long as he can sell stuff.

Bill

[midwaylandscaping]

Well, I suppose it's the sellers right to try and move these. Morally I'd destroy the slabs, let SGC/PSA know so they can update their serial # info. By allowing this type of listing eBay is planting the seeds for some fraud in the near future. Basically condoning outright, transparent fraud on the site. It's really all it can be called, for whatever buyer gets these is going to be putting cards back in those holders looking for quick $$$.

[JoeyF1981]

If the price isnt too high I think someone on here should buy them and destroy them or turn them in. Whoever the seller is he's obviously a douche

[AddieJoss]

I just hope whoever wins this auction doesn't leave negative feedback on Ebay and then maybe buy more inexpensive items from the same seller and leave more negative feedback on Ebay. Just hoping it doesn't happen.

Cory

[cardsfan73]

8 of the 9 bids are from the same person who has an 88% bid activity with the seller...

[murcerfan]

All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission


Go away from here.

[baez578]

Originally Posted by JMANOS

They could have cared less when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission. I was treated very poor by the customer service folk at both company's. Maybe you people should question them? Lastly, I have a special needs person sell items for me and his spelling is weak to poor so I am sorry you have to read his description. Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards I sell them, sorry.

That's about the worst excuse to justify the sale of items that facilitate illegal activity on eBay.

If you want, I'll give you the $12. ship them to me and I'll report sn's to psa sgc. Then, I'll burn slabs and post vid on forum for all to see.

Btw , you say you sell cards....these aren't cards...they're slabs!

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

First of all, anyone selling these cases is an obvious scammer. He knows EXACTLY what someone is going to do with them. F##k him!!

But what I find hysterical is how he blames someone else for their spelling, but just ignores the fact that he himself has no grasp on the English language (see notes above). And I only took a quick glance.

anyone that uses mispellings as a point in their argument is really fishing for just about anything to help make their case or point in an argument about someone else.

it really has no bearing on the logic in ones actual argument.

i could care less if i mispell something by accident. most of the time it is just a typo and i really know how to spell the word. i have more important shit to do than to correct every little thing i type throughout the course of a day, especially when its outside of work.

i also don't capitalize stuff for the simple fact that i don't really care to. i write code so doing that in mixed case is a waste of time.

kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by AddieJoss

I just hope whoever wins this auction doesn't leave negative feedback on Ebay and then maybe buy more inexpensive items from the same seller and leave more negative feedback on Ebay. Just hoping it doesn't happen.

Cory

what? similiar to "they were cracked and broken"?

that can't happen.

kevin

[barrysloate]

Jim- the problem is there isn't a single person on earth who actually collects broken cases. The only use they have is for someone to place a lower grade or altered card in one of them, reseal it, and then try to pass it off to a sucker.

Please do me a favor- destroy the cases, send the labels back to the grading companies at no charge, then P.M. your address and I will mail you a check for $12. It will be my good deed for today.

[Sean1125]

I was the under bidder.... Hope the winner was a board member going to do the right thing...

[barrysloate]

I see this auction has just ended....thus my offer was too little too late. Hope the winner takes a stick of dynamite to them.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by brewing

While I agree with the concerns. I believe SGC and PSA should make cases that are more tamper resistant. While I abhor the quality of Becket vintage grading, their cases are tamper resistant.

Crooks will find a way to open the cases, but I see what you're saying. We, here, usually see the cracked PSA cases and report our findings here and on Ebay. PSA is easy to spot and because we look at the card first, which has its own indicators, its really hard to miss using both avenues.

Although I don't recall any SGC examples, they must be out there because those cases are very easy to open and should be harder to spot with the black inserts and all. Been a PSA guy for more than a dozen years but still really like the SGC holders and their consistency. First, they need to modify/secure those holders slightly, and second, they also need to make a few other unrelated changes to better business across all eras and increase quantity of both submissions and submitters. These things, specifically six things, are very clear to me and I simply can't understand how they're not doing them; just maintain the things that's keeping them second place, with a tie for second being the case, no pun intended, occasionally, it seems. I really like them though; they're unique.

Beckett has gotten better with the vintage stuff, both with their grading of cards and their knowledge of certain issuers. Criticism: went from overly strict years ago with vintage to possibly a little too lenient, but I may be overstating since all three take other things into account when assigning grades (each company considers certain aspects above others). I don't like their holders at all. If it can't be scanned, there's a problem, and their holders, for the most part, can't be scanned. Even when the plastic doesn't interfere, one still has to increase the contrast a great deal for the card to be seen the way it looks when holding it, and the result is a holder that is too bright to read, or close to it. I have several that will be cracked.

Having said all that negativity, they all have issues that are caused, for the most part and in this context, by the criminal minds. If you take a minute to reflect on who does these things and with which company, we'll find that PSA holders are most often the ones the crook chooses because the uncommon vintage collector knows and recognizes the PSA name first and foremost. We tend to emphasize that PSA is doing something wrong in this regard, but that's not correct, nor is it rational. That's the crook's fault, not PSA's. Based on the above, I'd say that PSA has the lead in the holder area and the others could put pressure on if they choose to do so.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

We tend to emphasize that PSA is doing something wrong in this regard, but that's not correct, nor is it rational. That's the crook's fault, not PSA's.

I understand what you're saying, but I kind of disagree. PSA knows that their slabs are easy to crack, but have turned a blind eye. It's kind of like this. Let's say you have a Masterlock deadbolt on your front door that's known to the criminals as an easy lock to pick because of its design. If you're home got burglarized and the cops told you after the fact that Masterlock is known by thieves as the easiest lock to pick, wouldn't you think that Masterlock should share some of the responsibility? That may be a far-fetched example, but my point is this. When companies are made aware of design flaws in their products, they have an obligation to fix them. So, yes, in a way PSA is doing something wrong by turning a blind eye.

On a side note, I was speaking to Earl from SGC last month at the TriStar show and this subject came up (PSA cases being easy to crack). He said that during his tenure at SGC (which I think he's been there for about 5 years now), he has only seen 1 SGC case that was cracked open and the card replaced, and went on to say that it was poorly fabricated and easy to spot.

[ramram]

Geez, $18.50. Jim's one of the only guys I know that would sell his reputation for $18.50.

Rob M.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by Clutch-Hitter

Beckett has gotten better with the vintage stuff, both with their grading of cards and their knowledge of certain issuers. Criticism: went from overly strict years ago with vintage to possibly a little too lenient, but I may be overstating since all three take other things into account when assigning grades (each company considers certain aspects above others). I don't like their holders at all. If it can't be scanned, there's a problem, and their holders, for the most part, can't be scanned. Even when the plastic doesn't interfere, one still has to increase the contrast a great deal for the card to be seen the way it looks when holding it, and the result is a holder that is too bright to read, or close to it. I have several that will be cracked.

I scan BVG cards on the same settings (I have a Canon CanoScan CCD scanner) as I scan PSA/SGC cards and they come out comparable, in my opinion. The card below is now raw, but once resided in a BVG holder:



I've cracked many holders from the big 3 TPGs. I always save the slips. I throw BVG holders in the recycling bin because I haven't found a way to remove the card without destroying the holder. SGC holders are usually the easiest, and sometimes they pop right open w/little or no frosting. Although in MOST cases there is frosting along the edges from opening the case. I usually save these holders to add stiffness to an envelope when shipping cards raw. PSA holders aren't quiet as easy for me as SGC and I usually end up damaging the side of the case more than an SGC, but still usable for shipping raw cards.

In either the SGC or PSA examples, even if I can remove the card w/o further damaging the holder, I still break open the entire holder before shipping it so it is in 2 pieces. Just habit.

Rob

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

i could care less if i mispell something by accident.

You misspelled "misspell".

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Kawika

You misspelled "misspell".

But he could 'careles'.

[Leon]

I would have only charged the TPGs $11 for them. I'm not greedy.

[ZenPop]

...kind of like selling uranium to the North Korean government and then claiming you didn't know what it was going to be used for.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by Kawika

You misspelled "misspell".

one person got the joke. yay.

kevin

[vintagetoppsguy]

When I click on the original eBay link in the first post, the item is no longer valid.

I see it when I do a completed items search, but when I click the item I get a message that says "Item 251305183289 is no longer available" as if it has been removed.

Does this mean eBay cancelled the listing after it ended? If so, I applaud eBay and thanks to those here that reported it.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Jim - This is definitely a sketch thing to do. You know what you are doing.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Jim - This is definitely a sketch thing to do. You know what you are doing.

Although I know the seller quite well I have never been under an illusion that he cares anything at all about the hobby, except how many pennies he can squeeze out of it. He makes no bones about it either. That being said I don't think selling these holders is good at all. Kind of like that Bubblebathgirl dude selling the empty wrappers AND gum from the 1970s or 1980s products. Not cool.