Are the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards really T206's ? ....I think so....What say you ?

[Leon]

T214 and T215 have similar designs and T215 has a brown captioned one too. I guess we make those T206 also?

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

That's kind of my point: the ACC designation T206 reflects a series of decisions based on information available at the time to a group of collectors like us. There is nothing inherently right or wrong with the decision to canonize certain cards as T206 and make others different. The type 1 Coupons seem indistinguishable from T206 from a design standpoint, other than the paper, but we have the Kotton cards as the 'rule' governing paper differences. As for the other white series T213s, well, as has been pointed out already they had the artwork and basically redid the captions and finishes to issue the cards. What company hasn't re-used artwork whenever it could get away with it? T202 was a repurposing of T205 cards with white borders. And how much artwork is shared across T sets?

Don't forget, Camel started its advertising in the teens by deriding companies that spent money on premiums instead of the product itself. In that atmosphere a cut rate re-issue of T206 might have made sense: type 2. Then you have the Federal League and a chance to re-do some captions and issue type 3.

[Exhibitman]

I think T214 was issued a few years after the end of the T206 run, so no.

T215 type 1 might be considered, since the time frame seems right, but I don't know enough about the issue to do more than guess at it. Red Cross was in T207 and T219, so who the heck knows.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Leon

T214 and T215 have similar designs and T215 has a brown captioned one too. I guess we make those T206 also?

And while we're at it, what should we do with T215 Pirates? Same artwork, brown captions, and perhaps some of them were printed in the same time frame.

[ullmandds]

Add em!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Add em!

troublemaker

[Sean]

Delete, unnecessary.

[Exhibitman]

I'll see your Pirate Merkle and raise you this one.



Wait, that doesn't sound right...

[Pat R]

The thing that stands out the most to me is the odd group of subjects used, I think Luke mentioned it earlier. The mix of forty two 350 only subjects
with Twenty Southern Leaguers and the six super prints doesn't fit in with any of the other T206 backs. To me it seems like something that was done after
the plates were used for the T206's. Where does the 1910 date for the T213-1's come from?

[insidethewrapper]

Sounds like a separate regional issue.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The thing that stands out the most to me is the odd group of subjects used, I think Luke mentioned it earlier. The mix of forty two 350 only subjects
with Twenty Southern Leaguers and the six super prints doesn't fit in with any of the other T206 backs. To me it seems like something that was done after
the plates were used for the T206's. Where does the 1910 date for the T213-1's come from?

This might be the bit of information that convinces me to not include them in T206?

[CobbSpikedMe]

I understand both sides of this issue. On Leon's side the Coupons are listed in the ACC as T213 so that's what they are. And T206 is what it is. It's that simple. On the other hand, if the ACC needs to be amended then someone should do it. Until then though, Coupons are going to be T213 because that's what Burdick catalogued them as. If you want to collect them in your T206 set then go ahead. As they say, there's no wrong way to collect right?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The thing that stands out the most to me is the odd group of subjects used, I think Luke mentioned it earlier. The mix of forty two 350 only subjects
with Twenty Southern Leaguers and the six super prints doesn't fit in with any of the other T206 backs. To me it seems like something that was done after
the plates were used for the T206's. Where does the 1910 date for the T213-1's come from?

We had this argument about five years ago (and every year since), but at that time Tim Cathey made this same point. The subjects chosen for Coupons did not follow the pattern of any other T206 backs.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

The thing that stands out the most to me is the odd group of subjects used, I think Luke mentioned it earlier. The mix of forty two 350 only subjects
with Twenty Southern Leaguers and the six super prints doesn't fit in with any of the other T206 backs. To me it seems like something that was done after
the plates were used for the T206's. Where does the 1910 date for the T213-1's come from?

Hey guys, this has all been cleared up before. I covered this situation in previous threads. So, I will reprise it here once again.

First, with all due respect to Luke (or Pat), they are appear to be uninformed as they are misleading with the above statement.

The Six Super Prints were simply 350 Series subjects when the 1910 COUPON cards were produced. It was not until later in the game that American Lithographic (ALC) selected
these six subjects from an earlier print run to be Super-Prints. And, ALC made this selection when they started printing the SOVEREIGN 460 cards (circa Summer/Fall 1910). Proof
of this is evident in the SOVEREIGN sub-set in that the Six Super Prints are found with both SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 backs, as I am illustrating here......

Furthermore, regarding the Southern Association (20) subjects, I refer you to post #24 in this thread.

Six Super Prints with SOVEREIGN 460 backs printed circa Summer/Fall 1910
.
.
............





1910 COUPON printed circa Spring/Summer 1910

.

.









TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey guys, this has all been cleared up before. I covered this situation in previous threads. So, I will reprise it here once again.

First, with all due respect to Luke (or Pat), they are appear to be uninformed as they are misleading with the above statement.

The Six Super Prints were simply 350 Series subjects when the 1910 COUPON cards were produced. It was not until later in the game that American Lithographic (ALC) selected
these six subjects from an earlier print run to be Super-Prints. And, ALC made this selection when they started printing the SOVEREIGN 460 cards (circa Summer/Fall 1910). Proof
of this is evident in the SOVEREIGN sub-set in that the Six Super Prints are found with both SOVEREIGN 350 and SOVEREIGN 460 backs, as I am illustrating here......

Furthermore, regarding the Southern Association (20) subjects, I refer you to post #24 in this thread.

Six Super Prints with SOVEREIGN 460 backs printed circa Summer/Fall 1910
.
.
............





1910 COUPON printed circa Spring/Summer 1910

.

.









TED Z

T206 Reference
.

All of the 350 only subjects are printed with a Forrest Green back and the
super prints are printed with an Apple Green back.