Are the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards really T206's ? ....I think so....What say you ?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

How is the pack on Jon's site any different than the carton?

It isn't different. The pack depicted on Jon's site is labelled LIGGETT & MYERS; therefore, it was issued 1913 (or later). If it had BB cards in it they would be T213-2 or T213-3, ONLY.
OR, it may have Movie stars in it from that era. For example...…

.

Originally Posted by Pat R

I don't care if people consider them T206's but in my opinion there is more
evidence to support how Burdick catalogued them and not enough to change
it.

Your statement here tells us that you don't realize Jefferson Burdick incorrectly classified all three T213 sets as 1914-1915 issues. This timeline is a proven fallacy, on both ends of it.

"T213-1"......1910

T213-2...…….1914-1916

T213-3...…….1916-1919

Originally Posted by Pat R

Do you have a copy of that newspaper clipping and does it mention anything about baseball pictures?

The newspaper clipping was from the New Orleans Times Picayune. The date is circa late 1908, or early 1909. I cannot seem to find it (I read it at least 10 years ago).
You find it, you are good at searching for things.


Frankly, I am tired of playing this game. You do not want to accept my research, fine.....that's your prerogative. It appears to me that many guys responding in this thread
have more of an open mind.


TED Z
.

[Pat R]

I have been searching past threads. I did find one from 2009 where Jamie Hull
questioned the 1910 date but no one mentioned a Coupon newspaper clipping.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

It isn't different. The pack depicted on Jon's site is labelled LIGGETT & MYERS; therefore, it was issued 1913 (or later). If it had BB cards in it they would be T213-2 or T213-3, ONLY.
OR, it may have Movie stars in it from that era. For example...…

.





Your statement here tells us that you don't realize Jefferson Burdick incorrectly classified all three T213 sets as 1914-1915 issues. This timeline is a proven fallacy, on both ends of it.

"T213-1"......1910

T213-2...…….1914-1916

T213-3...…….1916-1919




The newspaper clipping was from the New Orleans Times Picayune. The date is circa late 1908, or early 1909. I cannot seem to find it (I read it at least 10 years ago).
You find it, you are good at searching for things.


Frankly, I am tired of playing this game. You do not want to accept my research, fine.....that's your prerogative. It appears to me that many guys responding in this thread
have more of an open mind.


TED Z
.

Post #59 in this thread has a 1908 newspaper clipping from the New Orleans Times Picayune
that mentions Coupon cigarettes but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=Picayune

[CobbSpikedMe]

Interesting how the clipping about the contest also has the "Coupon" in quotes. Pat, nice job finding the thread.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Post #59 in this thread has a 1908 newspaper clipping from the New Orleans Times Picayune
that mentions Coupon cigarettes but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=Picayune

That's the 1908 Times Picayune article which I referred to regarding the "COUPON" Cigarettes brand. I knew you would find it.

Come on Pat, this is silly...."but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.".

T206's were not issued until approx. a year later (circa Spring/Summer 1909).

Anyway, thanks for finding this Newspaper article.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Pat R]

That's my point Ted I asked where the 1910 dating of the T213-1's came from and
you said a newspaper clipping if that's not the case then where did that information
come from?

[Leon]

Maybe, Like many other things, it came from conjecture not fact. When I started quoting Burdick all I got in response was some old hobbyists said "this and that." I say if we are going to have a good debate we should base it on facts not what someone might have said a long time ago.

Originally Posted by Pat R

That's my point Ted I asked where the 1910 dating of the T213-1's came from and
you said a newspaper clipping if that's not the case then where did that information
come from?

[AGuinness]

I have no horse in this race, but it does make me wonder: how would T213-1s being reclassified as T206s change how you collect, if it happened?

For me, it wouldn't change my T206 goal (Red Sox team set with all different backs), as none of the Sox players appeared in the T213-1s, but rather later Coupons.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe, Like many other things, it came from conjecture not fact. When I started quoting Burdick all I got in response was some old hobbyists said "this and that."
I say if we are going to have a good debate we should base it on facts not what someone might have said a long time ago.

Leon

Does your last comment also apply to Jefferson Burdick ?

As, I am sure you know, when he became aware (circa 1940's) that there were several white-bordered sets of tobacco cards issued in the Louisiana area (T213, T214, T215),
he originally considered the "T213-1" set as an extension of the T206 set.

I could give you a lengthy dissertation on all the factors with these Major League (48) subjects and their relevance to the other T206 brands, that results in a narrow timeline.
And, this research convinces me that the 1910 COUPON cards were indeed printed (and issued) in 1910.

And to a less complicated degree, the Southern Association (20) subjects fit into this narrow timeline. However, I will spare you all the nitty-gritty details.


1910 COUPON ("T213-1") Major League (48) subjects





Southern Association (20) subjects





In my opinion....these cards (and the red Ty Cobb card with the TY COBB back) were advertising premiums, rather than insert cards (into tobacco products).

The bottom line is....you say nay and I say yea....to the "T213-1" (1910 COUPON) cards as just another T-brand in the T206 set. And that is fine with me.
For I will just keep on rolling along including 1910 COUPON cards in my T206 runs of my favorite subjects.

Happy New Year to you, Leon.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.