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Old 12-27-2018, 11:17 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Of course they aren't. Burdick looked at the cards, they all had similar fronts but not exact and had the same brand of cigarette on the back. No other T206 ad back group has the characteristics of the T213 Coupon set.
With all due respect Leon...…I'm not quite sure I understand this statement of your's ?

Anyhow, it's obvious to me that the American Litho (ALC) artist designed these 5 backs (which include the 1910 COUPON back) during the T206 timeline (circa Spring/Summer 1910).

A - B - C - C - D connection

And, at some later date another ALC artist designed these COUPON backs for the T213-2 (circa 1914-1916) and T213-3 (circa 1916-1919) sets...…

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

So, please explain your comment.....because I don't get it ?


T206 Reference
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:50 AM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 894

please explain how you ‘know’ the doolan was pasted to a carton?
R0nnie L3hman
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Old 12-27-2018, 11:51 AM
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Leon Leon is offline
peasant/forum owner
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Location: near Dallas
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Hey Ted
Nothing personal just fun debate.
Just like I said, there is no other T206 brand on paper like stock and no T206 brand with cards with blue, as well as brown, captions. I am not sure how anyone can't see that Burdick took T206 into account when giving Coupons their T213 designation.
Leon Luckey
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:12 PM
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buymycards buymycards is offline
Rick McQuillan
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
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Default Just because

I am always a little curious when someone is questioning another person about something, and the answer is "Just because it was always done that way".

We have much more information about these early cards than Burdick had available to him. If we can show that Burdick was wrong, then maybe his info should be corrected. I'm not sure how to go about updating the ACC, but there should be a way to make it happen. I'm sure there are other mistakes that Burdick made, and there are also inconsistencies with the set designations. I posted this is another thread:

Since I collect Coupons, I have always wondered why the Coupons are listed as 1910-1919, Types 1, 2, and 3. Using that logic, shouldn't Goudey's be listed as 1933 through 1941 Types 1, 2, etc.? Playball 1939-1941 Types 1, 2, and 3?

Burdick isn't the only one who has some errors in their information. If you look at Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia and carefully look at the New Orleans cards, you will see some minor errors.

The designation of the T213-1's really doesn't matter, but it is fun, and interesting to read other peoples opinions.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Coupon Type 1 Byrne.jpg (57.7 KB, 448 views)
File Type: jpg Coupon Type 1 Byrne Back.jpg (68.6 KB, 451 views)
Rick McQuillan

T213-2 123 down 62 to go.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:15 PM
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ullmandds ullmandds is online now
pete ullman
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Also of the t216' of the three is printed on thin paper...yet it's still a T216 Kotton?
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:45 PM
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Luke Luke is offline
Luke Lyon
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Posts: 2,671

I feel like they belong in a T206 collection. The thin paper is obviously a big difference, but so is the width of American Beautys. One thing that gives me pause is the limited checklist. There aren't any other T206 backs that were printed with 350 only series fronts but left so many poses off the checklist. The combination of Southern Leaguers, Super Prints and 350 Only poses is interesting given that the overall checklist only consists of 68 players.

Since threads are more fun with scans, here is my Engle-Willett ghost:
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File Type: jpg Engle Coupon Type 1.jpg (79.4 KB, 448 views)
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:53 PM
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insidethewrapper insidethewrapper is offline
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Default T213's

Three separate sets produced over a 10 year period and we call them all T213's ? Type 1, 2 & 3. I don't get it. This needs to be corrected first. Each should have it's designation. Then review all the data concerning if Type 1 is part of the T206 set.

As more data is collected and researched sometimes things need to be changed like: Columbus discovering America, Doubleday inventing baseball etc.
Wanted : Detroit Baseball Cards and Memorabilia ( from 19th Century Detroit Wolverines to Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb to Al Kaline).
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:19 PM
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Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is offline
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Nice card Luke - too bad I can’t post my Tinker Bat Off no-print in this thread.

As I mentioned once before, I don’t know if they should be t206s, but any self respecting t206 back run should include t213-1, if such an example exists.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E4B001BB-3D2C-41D6-A87D-B25D11CD47CB.jpg (6.5 KB, 432 views)
File Type: jpg B6E90305-6CE2-4968-ACFB-942CB43E8893.jpg (5.8 KB, 427 views)
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:50 PM
Jersey City Giants Jersey City Giants is offline
Jason Seidl
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NJ
Posts: 133
Default Burdick made mistakes

Burdick clearly made mistakes with other issues so why can't we question his assumptions all these years later with better information? I collect T209 first series. They are labeled a 1910 set but are clearly from 1909 (only four of the 16 players in the set played for the team pictured in 1910). 15 out of 16 played for their teams pictured in 1909 (the lone exception is the mystery card that is less of a mystery now but won't get into that one). Just proving that he made mistakes and people just use his data. All major grading companies blindly call the T209 first series a 1910 card set.

Last edited by Jersey City Giants; 12-27-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:55 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
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Default Are the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards really T206's ? ....I think so. ....What say you ?

Hey guys

Illustrated here is my simulated uncut sheet of the Major Leaguers (48) in the 1910 COUPON set. My theory is that American Lithographic
printed up this COUPON set during an early print run of their 350 Series (circa Spring 1910). And, they used the same printing plates that
were in operation while printing up the 1000's of T206's.

1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League (48) subjects

Shown here are the " Six Super Prints " which were just 350 Series subjects when the 1910 COUPON cards were produced. It was not
until later in the game that American Litho selected these 6 subjects to be Super-Prints when they started printing the SOVEREIGN 460
cards. Scot Reader accurately identified these six T206's in his book titled "Inside T206".



Major Leaguer's (48 subjects) checklist

Becker......Boston NL
Bender (trees)......A's
Byrne......St Louis NL
Chance (portrait-yellow)......Chicago NL
Charles......St Louis NL
Chase (blue portrait)......New York AL
Chase (dark cap)......New York AL
Cobb (red portrait).......Detroit
Cree......New York AL
Donovan (throwing)......Detroit
Doolan (fielding)......Phillies
Engle.......New York AL
Evers (bat-yellow sky)......Chicago NL
Fletcher.....New York NL
Hoffman......St Louis AL
Howell (portrait)......St Louis AL

Huggins (portrait).....Cincinnati
Huggins (hands at mouth)......Cincinnati
Killian (portrait)......Detroit
LaPorte......New York AL
Marquard (portrait)......New York NL
Mathewson (dark cap)......New York NL
Myers (bat)......New York NL
Myers (fielding)......New York NL
Rhoades (hands at chest)......Cleveland

Schmidt (portrait)......Detroit
Starr......Boston NL
Street (portrait)......Washington
Sweeney......Boston NL


T206 Reference

Last edited by tedzan; 12-27-2018 at 05:55 PM. Reason: Added Checklist.
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