Not prewar but....Topps '52 Mantle on eBay...

[iggyman]

I realize this is not a prewar card and doesn't belong in this section. Leon, if you want to zap this thread......by all means. But, since it is one of the big ones in the hobby. I'm sure PSA will not appreciate this auction. Plus, it might resurface again; only this time without the "reproduction" qualifier.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-Topps-Micke...mZ140341589999


I have nothing against the seller and he is selling it as a reprint. However, it sets a real bad precedent and ebay should really put an end to it!

By the way, the certification number is legit... it displays as an authentic '52 PSA 4 Mantle RC (albiet, not this card). It sure takes the meaning of "buy the card not the holder" to a whole new level.

Lovely Day...

[Matt]

The enthusiasm of the description made me chuckle. He's selling it like a whoopie cushion or an exploding golf ball.

[iggyman]

You're right Matt. After reading his description, I can close my eyes and imagine a Ron Popeil info commercial running in an endless loop hawking the "fool your friends" '52 Mantle card........ This must be stopped!

Lovely Day...

[thegashousegang]

I saw this card while browsing earlier, and was left shaking my head at another aweful ebay auction.

[kcohen]

Well, it begs the question of how the card got into a PSA holder, doesn't it?

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Well, it begs the question of how the card got into a PSA holder, doesn't it?

Cracked case with a fake flip?

I have no problem with someone selling a reprint card and clearly labeling it, but there's no guarantee that the purchaser will do the same when resold.

All-in-all, this is asking for trouble.

[nsaddict]

This seller is using a stolen scan from legit ebay seller tbh39.

[slantycouch]

Or that.

Well I guess that's probably the easiest way to do it.

[iggyman]

What the heck..... this thread is now making me dizzy. A stolen pic....but yet the seller has the courtesy of selling it as a reprint! I couldn't make this stuff-up. But it doesn't end there, I found another '52 Mantle reprint.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-TOPPS-MICKE...mZ120459451299

Almost 2 grand for a reprint PSA 5! So far, the PSA 4 is a bargain.

Lovely Day...

[nsaddict]

I asked the seller why he is using a stolen scan,his reply:

I didn't this card is the repo, the card is in a slap and is repo. What are you talking about please read the entire listing.

- sellzalotmore

Did this answer your question? If not, let the seller know.

1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4 (REPRODUCTION) LOOK!!!!
1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 4 (REPRODUCTION) LOOK!!!!
Item Id: 140341589999
End time: Aug-24-09 15:39:23 PDT
Seller:

sellzalotmore (504)

edited to add: the 2 Mantle's I'm referring to have the same exact cert numbers.

[GrayGhost]

I don't get it. Who in their right mind would bid on it, when the seller is stating in these cases that THE CARD IS A REPRODUCTION. I don't get it, w the holder, etc either. I guess Im tired, preoccupied, bleary, or whatever, but what in blue heaven is going on here?

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

I don't get it. Who in their right mind would bid on it, when the seller is stating in these cases that THE CARD IS A REPRODUCTION. I don't get it, w the holder, etc either. I guess Im tired, preoccupied, bleary, or whatever, but what in blue heaven is going on here?

Who knows. I doubt anyone here would touch it.

I will say, however, I have a friend who owns a sports bar and has a whole bunch of reproductions on display. Stuff that the "casual" viewer wouldn't recognize as such. This would be a perfect item for him. Being that it's (supposedly) in a PSA holder brings some (false) legitimacy to it.

Nice way to display something "valuable" without worrying about the risk of it being stolen.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by slantycouch

Who knows. I doubt anyone here would touch it.

I will say, however, I have a friend who owns a sports bar and has a whole bunch of reproductions on display. Stuff that the "casual" viewer wouldn't recognize as such. This would be a perfect item for him. Being that it's (supposedly) in a PSA holder brings some (false) legitimacy to it.

Nice way to display something "valuable" without worrying about the risk of it being stolen.

Now, wait a second, if I spend "$1,925.00" on a '52 reprint Mantle card. It is now valuable from my point of view and I wouldn't want it stolen. Not to state the obvious, but if I spent that amount of money on a reprint. I'm planning on flipping-it for a profit. Legitimately or not.

Lovely Day...

[Tcards-Please]

card as the one from seller tbh39, although the cert # is the same. Looks like the flip is a fake with a real cert#.

r/
Frank

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by iggyman

Now, wait a second, if I spend "$1,925.00" on a '52 reprint Mantle card. It is now valuable from my point of view and I wouldn't want it stolen. Not to state the obvious, but if I spent that amount of money on a reprint. I'm planning on flipping-it for a profit. Legitimately or not.

Lovely Day...

Oh sorry - I was talking more about the first one posted that I thought was going for less than $25.

I can't explain why anyone would spend even that, let alone hundreds or thousands, on a reprint.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by slantycouch

Cracked case with a fake flip?

I have no problem with someone selling a reprint card and clearly labeling it, but there's no guarantee that the purchaser will do the same when resold.

All-in-all, this is asking for trouble.

This card is going to reappear in a year as a "real" card, bet on it.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by iggyman

What the heck..... this thread is now making me dizzy. A stolen pic....but yet the seller has the courtesy of selling it as a reprint! I couldn't make this stuff-up. But it doesn't end there, I found another '52 Mantle reprint.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-TOPPS-MICKE...mZ120459451299

Almost 2 grand for a reprint PSA 5! So far, the PSA 4 is a bargain.

Lovely Day...

Makes me glad I use SGC.

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by tbob

This card is going to reappear in a year as a "real" card, bet on it.

That would be my guess, unfortunately.

[sbfinley]

Ditto on the above post. I'll bet my savings that this card gets passed as legit very soon.

[iggyman]

Hammer price on this reprint....$673.13!!!

The price shouldn't surprise me..........but this hobby of ours really needs an "intervention" from a higher being! If only Obama wasn't so darn busy. To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi, "I have a bad feeling about this."

Lovely Day...

[Potomac Yank]

*

[Doug]

Even if the card is listed as a reprint, I'm not sure how ebay would allow them to be sold in fake PSA holders with legit cert numbers. They are probably busy redesigning the my ebay page or making the site "easier" to use...

[Jim VB]

The first one went "poof" and it's gone. Hopefully the winning bidder didn't pay first.

The second one is still going strong.

[Potomac Yank]

Don't count on it.

eBay is strictly for eBay.

[Doug]

I found this question and answer from the last auction interesting:

Q: Hello, Is the card in the picture the one that will be received? Why does the cert number from PSA show up in the database as being a REAL 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle and not a reprint? Do you have anymore info on how you think this is a fake? Thanks Aug-16-09
A: Hi there - the card in the picture is the EXACT card you will receive. Not sure about the serial #. My friend who is VERY familiar with the 1952 topps issue said he's "99.999%" sure this is a reproduction and that the case or label must have been tampered with somehow.

I'm not sure what is worse, that there are apparently almost undetectable fakes getting graded or that there are people selling fakes knowing "that the case or label must have been tampered with somehow".

[iggyman]

One question to the board. What about the owner(s) of the "real" PSA 4 or 5 '52 Mantle card(s). I would be mighty peeved, if either one of those cards were mine. I realize it would be hard to establish damages, but is there a case here against eBay, the seller and the current lucky winner? Afterall, it's a real cert number and consequently a real card and real $$$ that is being tarnish.

Humor me here, but if the real '52 Mantle card (with the same cert. number) were to appear on eBay or a Silk Road Equity auction next month, and one of you fellows had just won the lottery, thus, you were now in the market for a PSA 4 or 5 '52 Mantle card (hey, you're still frugal). Wouldn't a reasonable buyer stay away from this particular '52 Mantle cert number with a ten-foot pole?

Lovely Day...

[slantycouch]

Interesting points...

There would certainly be a stigma attached to that cert #/card.

[Doug]

I would definitely be wary if I saw one pop up with that same cert # even if it was the real card and not one of these high quality fakes. Considering my fondness for picking up the occasional '52 Topps Mantle this bothers me highly.

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by Doug

I would definitely be wary if I saw one pop up with that same cert # even if it was the real card and not one of these high quality fakes. Considering my fondness for picking up the occasional '52 Topps Mantle this bothers me highly.

Looks like you'll have to take this week off from picking up one!

[canjond]

Cert numbers should be printed on holograms attached to the flip. I think faking certs would be much harder then.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by slantycouch

Looks like you'll have to take this week off from picking up one!

Funny thing is that I tried to pick up two different ones (perfectly legit ones as far as I know) this week, but no luck. so I guess I will end up taking the rest of this week off after all!

[Potomac Yank]

Why be miserable?

Don't let us talk you out of it.

[iggyman]

Another one of these fake '52 Mantle RC in a PSA holder. This is reaching epidemic proportion.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-TOPPS-MICKE...mZ120466314227

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Potomac Yank

Why be miserable?

Don't let us talk you out of it.

Don't worry I got another real one Monday. The label on this one has apparently been doctored since "Mickey Mantle" the "311" and the serial number are a bit crooked. The color of the card looks a bit off as well, but these things are getting scary close. It may be the picture, but it looks like the right and bottom edges of the holder are frosted.

[Doug]

I just sent PSA an email with links to the auctions to make them aware of the situation. If I hear anything back I will make sure to post it.

[Jantz]

I was at a card show in Columbus, OH. the weekend before the National and talked to a dealer who purchased a graded card off of Ebay. The card had been advertised by the seller as PSA graded and the slab & label looked as such. After receiving the card, the buyer(dealer) noticed something wrong with the card. Not only was the card a fake/reprint, but the label was also fake. I asked the dealer if I could get a closer look & he obliged. The detail of the label was scary and it was a dead on match. It could have fooled almost anyone not taking a close look and viewing it from a scan on Ebay made it, I imagine, almost impossible to tell the differences. Also, the slab was sealed. No frosting or spider line cracks. It was sealed completely around the edges.

Now, I'm in no way trying to bash PSA. My opinion is that these thieves prey on PSA's name and probably get better prices for a card with a look-a-like PSA slab/label than they would another grading companies slab/label.

After seeing this card it changed my way of thinking. Now, not only do I inspect the card, but the label also.

Jantz

[Doug]

Hopefully PSA takes some kind of approach to help stop this kind of stuff. As someone who mostly collects postwar cards it's a huge concern since it seems like about 90% of graded postwar cards are PSA graded. It seems like scammers are getting less greedy. Instead of trying to pass off a fake PSA 8 Mantles, they are dropping down to lower grade ones. That PSA 1 Mantle looks like someone bought a legit PSA 1 1952 Topps card and changed the name to Mickey Mantle, the number to 311, and certification number to match a real '52 Mantle while leaving the rest of the text intact which at least shows a difference so you can tell the label was altered. Still a PSA 1 common is probably a $5 investment and after some label doctoring and a fake Mickey Mantle in the holder, you have a $4k card. After a couple of those deals they could afford to buy a legit '52 Mantle and all they would have to do is switch out the real card with a fake and keep resubmitting the real card for more legit labels and holders. The possibilities are scary.

[HOFAUTOS]

Im sure those Mantles are from the Criagslist scams of PSA cards that was going on. A little Photoshop to produce a flip, and fake cards.

There have been numerous threads about it over on CU, if I find the time and not drunk , i'll post them here

[onlychild]

Flip (and slab) doctoring is nothing new. It has been discussed on Net54 in detail several times in the past, in great detail. The results of the Mantle flip(s) are somewhat novice. A well made flip is very difficult to recognize without a very close examination or a side by side comparison with one that is real.

To the best of my knowledge, all grading companies are aware of this issue. PSA, Beckettt and GAI have "definitely known" about this, for at least a couple years. Some have taken proactive steps to make their flips/slabs more secure. Not only does PSA know but almost perfectly forged flips have been sent for their review...still nothing.

Kevin

[Doug]

Originally Posted by onlychild

Some have taken proactive steps to make their flips/slabs more secure.

Could you please elaborate on this statement? It would be good to know which companies are actually doing something about this problem.

[Doug]

For what it's worth, here's the follow up response I got from PSA about the fake '52 Topps Mantles in the PSA holders on ebay:

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are looking into it the matter and will work directly with eBay and the seller if corrective action is required.

Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

Kristie Gallant

PSA Customer Service