What's the deal with this T206 on ebay?

[OldSchoolBaseball]

I saw yesterday a SL'er Kiernan sell at auction for $675 for a PSA 6.5. In looking closer it is the same one TBarlage sold on 2/14 for $1,030. Was this person looking for a quick profit on an already inflated sale? They also did this with a PSA 6 Lajoie.

Just an observation of crazy ebay.

[JP]

You may want to do some research before posting. Not sure why you would think that barlage's sales to me were inflated. In fact, what I bought the Lajoie at happened to be the lowest recorded sale of that card according to five years of data at VCP of eBay and auction house sales.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

You may want to do some research before posting. Not sure why you would think that barlage's sales to me were inflated. In fact, what I bought the Lajoie at happened to be the lowest recorded sale of that card according to five years of data at VCP of eBay and auction house sales.

Leon, please lock/delete this thread, as I don't wish my business on eBay to be discussed in an open forum.

Looks to me like he actually did some research.

One of the risks you take when you flip cards is that this might happen. It's not totally dis-similar from daytrading in the market. Some winners. Some losers.

The OP didn't attack you personally. In fact, he didn't even point out it was you. I bet he didn't even realize that the person he was discussing was a board member. Most of us would have never know if you hadn't spoken up.

I see no reason to lock or delete a thread.

[JP]

My intention was not to flip the cards. I had my reasons for selling so quickly after buying. I do not wish this discussed any further.

[cfc1909]

I watch that kind a stuff and would not have known it was you...

[Jim VB]

JP,

1. I don't need any PM's. Anything you have to say can be on the board.

2. I fully understand that you'd prefer not to discuss this on the board. We would not be doing it, except that you told us you were the seller.

3. Would you mind explaining these transactions?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=310194230320

and

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300400375664


Looks to me like someone sold a card to a buyer (6***f) for $248.50.
Less than a month later, you sold the exact same card to the exact same guy (6***f) for $185.48.


I'm interested in the theory behind this business model. Thanks in advance.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by JP

You may want to do some research before posting. Not sure why you would think that barlage's sales to me were inflated. In fact, what I bought the Lajoie at happened to be the lowest recorded sale of that card according to five years of data at VCP of eBay and auction house sales.

Leon, please lock/delete this thread, as I don't wish my business on eBay to be discussed in an open forum.

Actually one sold for $810 on 4/27/2008, which is over a 20% discount to what you paid on Valentines Day.

[JP]

1. PMs exist for the very reason beause not everything can or should be said on an open forum.

2. Anybody who posts an further in this thread is disrespecting my polite request. I'd rather not discuss my business on here. How hard is that to comprehend?

3. I'll discuss this in part because... The first eBay transaction has nothing to do with me at all. I did buy that exact Devlin from a fellow Net54er though, on this forum in my "looking for PSA 6s for under $200" thread. I got it for either $165 or $180. Then it was put on eBay because my consigner no longer wished to own it.

THE END

[OldSchoolBaseball]

I did not know who you were (didn't really matter) - but now we all know.

Sorry just can't understand why Ray Ryan SGC 80 was bought at $780 and 12 days later you sell for $456 ???

If you tried so hard to outbid folks for cards, I would think you wanted them real bad. Not a problem for me.

If you want to take a $1,000 loss in a few days to flip cards, go for it. Just an observation as to the insanity of ebay sometimes, not a personal attack.

No need to send me anymore PM. I get it!

[JP]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

Actually one sold for $810 on 4/27/2008, which is over a 20% discount to what you paid on Valentines Day.

Incorrect. That card had a qualifier. So it was really a PSA 4, not a PSA 6. The price I got it at was unprecedented.

[slidekellyslide]

JP, All ebay auctions pertaining to vintage baseball cards are open for discussion. You can either choose to discuss it or not. That's up to you.

[JP]

Originally Posted by OldSchoolBaseball

I did not know who you were (didn't really matter) - but now we all know.

Sorry just can't understand why Ray Ryan SGC 80 was bought at $780 and 12 days later you sell for $456 ???

If you tried so hard to outbid folks for cards, I would think you wanted them real bad. Not a problem for me.

If you want to take a $1,000 loss in a few days to flip cards, go for it. Just an observation as to the insanity of ebay sometimes, not a personal attack.

No need to send me anymore PM. I get it!

if you truly "got it" you wouldn't have posted this followup filled with inaccuracies. It was not purchased or sold with the intention of flipping, as I already told you. What you may classify as "insanity" may be the result of a situation youdont fully comprehend. Doesn't mean it is insane...

[JP]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

JP, All ebay auctions pertaining to vintage baseball cards are open for discussion. You can either choose to discuss it or not. That's up to you.

Not really fair to me. Leaves me with two choices.

1. I can sit idly by while people make incorrect assumptions based on limited information.

Or

2. I can come on board, explain that they were not bought or sold with the intention of flipping and the reasons for the sales are personal, and then watch as people are disrespectful enough to not drop the subject.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

3. I'll discuss this in part because... The first eBay transaction has nothing to do with me at all. I did buy that exact Devlin from a fellow Net54er though, on this forum in my "looking for PSA 6s for under $200" thread. I got it for either $165 or $180. Then it was put on eBay because my consigner no longer wished to own it.

THE END

I suppose it's possible, but that means that someone purchased this card on Ebay for $248.50 on January 18th, sold it to you on the BST for $165-180 on February 10, and then BOUGHT IT BACK FROM YOU ON EBAY FOR $185.48, ON 2/26. (Because both ebay buyers were the same guy.)

Me? I have some doubts.

[slidekellyslide]

Look at it from our perspective as moderators of the forum, if we lock/delete threads about ebay auctions that people have questions about it looks as though we're helping to hide something. I believe it is in your best interest to explain the situation and people can take it or leave it, but that's your choice. Nothing personal here, I wouldn't lock or delete anyone's thread about a pertinent ebay auction.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

I suppose it's possible, but that means that someone purchased this card on Ebay for $248.50 on January 18th, sold it to you on the BST for $165-180 on February 10, and then BOUGHT IT BACK FROM YOU ON EBAY FOR $185.48, ON 2/26. (Because both ebay buyers were the same guy.)

Me? I have some doubts.

Jim VB,

You better check yourself right now...

Here's the thread where I bought it
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=120432
and then I sold it on eBay yesterday. That is the extant of my knowledge on this card.

If you are 100% certain that whoever bought it on eBay originally is the person who bought it the second time, then direct your questions to user piedmont150 as you have tapped all of the information I have.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by JP

Incorrect. That card had a qualifier. So it was really a PSA 4, not a PSA 6. The price I got it at was unprecedented.

Not according to the scan that is linked to that sale. And the PSA cert#14921375 checks out as a PSA 6 Lajoie.
In fact that buyer flipped the card successfully two months later for a $300 profit.

[JP]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Look at it from our perspective as moderators of the forum, if we lock/delete threads about ebay auctions that people have questions about it looks as though we're helping to hide something. I believe it is in your best interest to explain the situation and people can take it or leave it, but that's your choice. Nothing personal here, I wouldn't lock or delete anyone's thread about a pertinent ebay auction.

I bought a card on a Net54 thread and sold it on eBay. That's it. How can I control who buys my card on eBay? I know as much as any of you now...eBay doesn't tell me what a buyer is thinking, so I won't dare to speculate what the buyer is up to...

[drc]

Nearly everyone on this board has resold for a loss so flipping for a loss isn't something to be unduly embarrassed about.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

Jim VB,

If you are 100% certain that whoever bought it on eBay originally is the person who bought it the second time, then direct your questions to user piedmont150 as you have tapped all of the information I have.

LOL! Yes they are the same ebay ID on both transactions, so I'm 100% sure.

Before the edit, you asked if I was accusing you of something nefarious. Let's just say this kind of crap makes me very skeptical.

[JP]

Originally Posted by drc

Nearly everyone on this board, including I, has resold for a loss on eBay at some time or other, so there's nothing to be unduly embarrassed about. Nearly everyone, including I, has done it multiple times.

I appreciate that BUT it was never my intention to sell the card a.k.a. Flip It.

And this has now snowballed into some subtle accusations...

I posted a thread wanting to buy t-206s and bought one. Then I sold it on eBay yesterday. Then Jim VB comes along and says that the card was bought on eBay before it was sold to me on Net54. And the person who bought it on eBay before is the same person who just bought it from me yesterday. If that is true, THAT is insane. That would mean that someone bought a card, sold to me at a $60 loss and then bought it right back from me for more than they sold it to me. Can you actually verify that's what happened Jim VB?

I ddnt even know the old eBay auction existed, but how can you see the winning bidder? As the seller, I obviously know who won it from me yesterday. If I say, am I breaking any eBay rules?

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by JP

I appreciate that BUT it was never my intention to sell the card a.k.a. Flip It.

And this has now snowballed into some subtle accusations...

I posted a thread wanting to buy t-206s and bought one. Then I sold it on eBay yesterday. Then Jim VB comes along and says that the card was bought on eBay before it was sold to me on Net54. And the person who bought it on eBay before is the same person who just bought it from me yesterday. If that is true, THAT is insane. That would mean that someone bought a card, sold to me at a $60 loss and then bought it right back from me for more than they sold it to me. Can you actually verify that's what happened Jim VB?

I ddnt even know the old eBay auction existed, but how can you see the winning bidder? As the seller, I obviously know who won it from me yesterday. If I say, am I breaking any eBay rules?

JP
Click on the ebay links that Jim provided. Then click on Bid history of each link. You will see that the same user purchased both cards (6***F) with 41 feedback.

r/
Frank

[JP]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

LOL! Yes they are the same ebay ID on both transactions, so I'm 100% sure.

Before the edit, you asked if I was accusing you of something nefarious. Let's just say this kind of crap makes me very skeptical.

That would make me skeptical as well, and I'd like to know now why piedmont sold this to me and bought it right back as well. I edited out "nefarious" because I wasn't sure the connotation applied. Any moderator could show you my PMs for the transaction...it was a pretty simple "he named the price, I paid it" sort of transaction. Piedmont150 hopefully can clear up all of this with an explanation. I'm just an innocent bystander who apparently is being railroaded into being a bad guy...

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

Can you actually verify that's what happened Jim VB?

I gave you the links to the two auctions. Next to "bid history", click on the number of bids and you'll see they were won by the same bidder.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

I gave you the links to the two auctions. Next to "bid history", click on the number of bids and you'll see they were won by the same bidder.

O.K., I just did that. You're right....the guy who bought the Devin originally, is also the guy who bought it from me yesterday. I didn't want to confirm his username since only sellers are supposed to know buyers identities, and I didn't want to violate anyone's trust. But his username on eBay is not piedmont150 like it is in Net54, so I wasn't sure.

I have no idea why piedmont150 sold it to me for a loss and then bought it right back from me. But I do know that I didn't do anything wrong (just bought here and sold on eBay without knowing who anybody was) and I don't think there are any laws against owning the same card twice. And piedmont150 doesn't seem to have any advantage by buying it back at a loss...I mean he can't be trying to inflate the price since it keeps coming down. So I don't even know what you could be accusing anybody of, Jim? What am I missing here?

And let me ask you this, how was I supposed to know ANYTHING at all about who owned the card or how it was acquired before it was sold to me on this forum? And am I supposed to monitor every person who buys a card from me for any weird activity in the past? I can't even see who wins the auction until it closes!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by JP

Any moderator could show you my PMs for the transaction...

Nope. PM's are truly private...no one can see them except for you and the person who sent/received them.

[JP]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Nope. PM's are truly private...no one can see them except for you and the person who sent/received them.

Oh well, o.k., so somebody I didn't know sold me a card on here and then bought it back for a higher price, after losing a bunch of money selling it to me in the first place. So what can you guys be accusing him of doing? And furthermore, since I have no control over who wins my eBay auction, how on earth can I be a considered a party in this?


EDIT: I just went back through all of piedmont150s posts, and it seems like he was selling cards at the time to fund a project. So maybe he begrudgingly sold at a loss to me, and then after a few weeks went by, had the funds to buy back his card from me when he saw it on eBay, for as little as $5 more than what he sold it to me. I don't see anything wrong with this...so hopefully the issue is dead. If he did have some sort of evil plan behind this, and I was unwittingly helping, whatever it was didn't work. So hopefully we can leave this issue, and speculation as to what his reasons were for selling, alone.

[Rob D.]

Thank you for this thread, David.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Thank you for this thread, David.

Edited to add: I concur. This is the best thread since Dorskind threatened to sue himself!

[Rob D.]

JP,

I'll echo what others have posted: I don't need any PMs from you. If you've got something to say, post it here.

[Jim VB]

By the way, I refuse to believe anything written in this thread (including my own posts) until Richard comes on here and confirms them to be true!

No hunches! I want facts!

[JP]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

JP,

I'll echo what others have posted: I don't need any PMs from you. If you've got something to say, post it here.

The sale was legit.


EDIT: shoot...I should've PM'ed you that, would have been much funnier....

[JP]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

This is the best thread since Dorskind threatened to sue himself!

Is that why he only talks in the 3rd person?

I remember on the old Net54 boards people used to give him a hard time about his silly "we" posts and usage of words like hither and henceforth. But people don't tease him in the new boards, why not?

[barrysloate]

Bruce speaks in the first person plural, for a reason that nobody can fathom. And he gets his fair share of ribbing on this board, and is not ashamed to give it right back.

[FrankWakefield]

Bruce still catches grief over it on this new board... he doesn't post on the new board as often, many don't.

There is a difference between the sale of a card and the closing of an auction for a card. An auction can end with a high price where there ultimately is no sale. Maybe payment was never made, maybe the card was not satisfactory and payment refunded, there are lots of ways for an auction to end with a high price and there was never a completed sale.

[JP]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce speaks in the first person plural, for a reason that nobody can fathom. And he gets his fair share of ribbing on this board, and is not ashamed to give it right back.

Ah, yes, the "royal" we...

I forgot how thick skinned you need to be for these forums....I'm a pretty sensitive/defensive guy....best for me to navigate with caution.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by JP

EDIT: shoot...I should've PM'ed you that, would have been much funnier....

Instead of sending PMs to people you don't know, you might want to keep shoveling in an attempt to remove yourself from the hole you've put yourself in.

[JP]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Bruce still catches grief over it on this new board... he doesn't post on the new board as often, many don't.

There is a difference between the sale of a card and the closing of an auction for a card. An auction can end with a high price where there ultimately is no sale. Maybe payment was never made, maybe the card was not satisfactory and payment refunded, there are lots of ways for an auction to end with a high price and there was never a completed sale.

Maybe that is why I haven't seen as much ribbing, fewer posts to rib him about.

Re: the auctions...

Roomn8 was the first seller and piedmont150 was the first buyer on eBay in mid-January. I know of Roomn8, Daniel, so I can only assume that sale is legit, and they don't live near each other (New Hampshire and Indiana) so they can't be in cahoots.

Then a month later piedmont150 sold to me at a $60 loss, which I'm 100% sure of since PayPal I've got a PayPal record of it.

Then I posted it on eBay and two weeks later, piedmont150 won my auction.

So all three transactions had to have taken place, and money changed hands each time, so I'm guessing that piedmont150 just wanted to get his card back, even if it cost him a little extra. I can't blame the guy as I've done it myself in the past....maybe we all have.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Instead of sending PMs to people you don't know, you might want to keep shoveling in an attempt to remove yourself from the hole you've put yourself in.

And what hole would that be?

I bought a card on Net54, then sold it on eBay, and the guy who sold it to me on Net54 decided to buy it from me on eBay. How does that have anything to do with me? How do I have any control over that? And what purpose would it serve?

Stop being an a*hole.

[FUBAR]

Things change in peoples lives and money comes and goes and no one should question why JP did this, it is his business.... He doesnt owe anyone an explanation except maybe his wife.

Dont worry if he sold it for a loss, he will make it up in volume! ;o)

[OldSchoolBaseball]

Let me first say "Buying to sell and make some quick cash" is totally fine with me. I am sure I have purchased hundreds of cards that were profitable for the seller. That's fine with me.

I question the authenticity of some of these auctions and how they reach their final sale price. It sounds and looks fishy to me and other Net54 members.

[JP]

Why is someone selling a card and buying it back "fishy"? Stop speaking in generalities like a coward. If you have a specific accusation, make it. But I don't see how me buying a card on this forum for $180 and selling it two weeks later on eBay for $185 constitutes "fishy".

[Rob D.]

Suggested reading, JP:

Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 2.

To make things easier, line No. 230 here:

http://www.twelfth-night.info/clickn...amlet/H32.html

[JP]

That's a BS thing that can be said to annoy anyone who is defending themselves. Why don't you grow a pair Rob and accuse me of something?

EDIT: if anything, I believe I deserve an apology. Haven't you ever bought anything on BST here? And haven't you ever sold any of those items on eBay? What would happen to you if the person who sold to you on Net54 bought from you on eBay? Would you then be guilty of some malfeasance? Even though you can't control who bids on your auctions on eBay? This has become F'in ridiculous. You and some of the other "adults" in this forum should be ashamed of yourselves. I've been buying and selling cards for 25 years. I'm sure many customers have come back to buy cards they've sold. I've never once been accused of any inappropriate dealing untilyou jackasses decided to jump to a ludicrous conclusion. Shame on you. Shame. You should reconsider what sort of person you are, and maybe amend your future "online" behavior.

[Rob D.]

I'm not accusing you of anything, JP. You just need to understand that when you ridiculously call for the locking of a thread and jump on the defensive like you have, you're not doing yourself any favors. And you only continue to make it worse. You obviously don't see it that way, and that's understandable.

I'm done. Go ahead and post the last word, which we know really won't be the last.

[Fred]

This thread is thoroughly confusing. I was trying to figure out how a Lajoie and SL card relates to this Devlin card. Then I followed the chain of custody of the Devlin:

18JAN10 - The Devlin (T206, PSA6) card is sold on ebay to 6***F (who is also known as Piedmont150 on N54) for $248.50

05FEB10 - JP puts a buy request in the N54 BST.

09FEB10 - Piedmont150 tells JP he has a card for $185 and JP buys it.

26FEB10 - An ebay auction held by JP for the Devlin card ends on this date. The final hammer price is $185.48.

So let's see what's up. Piedmont150 (N54 ID is Doug Moore) buys the card on ebay for $248.50. Lets say he gets the card a week later, that would be about 25JAN10. He owns the card for about 15 days and he sells it to JP for $185. Doug loses about $65 on the deal.

Lets say JP gets it on 16FEB10. 10 days later the auction ends and JP gets $185.48 for the Devlin. JP loses a few bucks on the deal because of ebay fees, etc.

Is that about the jist of it?

[JP]

Yup, that's it. Pretty simple. Thank you for summarizing it so people can follow along correctly.

Only change I'd make is I think I got the Devlin only after a couple of days. Then I put it up on the 20th as a "buy it now" with "best offer" for a few days, then canceled that 3 days later and immediately relisted it as a 3-day auction, which ended on the 26th. The rest is right, though.

Here's the listing I had: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=300399154298

[Matt]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

he doesn't post on the new board as often, many don't.

Frank - we've got more posts/posters on the new board then we did on the old one...

[BlueDevil89]

This thread is better than a CSI episode - definitely has more intrigue and drama.

It's "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma".

[Matt]

Originally Posted by BlueDevil89

It's "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma".

It's "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma, covered in chocolate sprinkles."