Bogus/scary 2nd chance offers on eBay BEWARE

[itjclarke]

I got a phony 2nd chance offer today, supposedly from eBay. It was an item I'd recently bid (only because my watch list was maxed out), and the offer seemed impossible since my bid was about $2K less than the final price. I contacted the seller immediately through eBay and he confirmed he did not send this offer. I've never had this happen before and am not sure how the scammer got my personal email address. Not sure if he's hacked the seller's account (do sellers have access to all bidders' personal email addresses?) or mine.. or if this email is just a totally bogus creation based on info the scammer is able to access publically through eBay (not sure how since bidders are anonymous, let alone display personal email/contact info).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-E121-Am...#ht_642wt_1047

- Below is text from notification email, I'll try to add a screen shot later.. it looked pretty legimate, only the sender email address was fishy- ebay@ebay.sky56.info, the item link did not work, and when responding it went directly to a personal email address- jrenv.engineer@gmail.com). All other links (seller page, other ebay links, etc) seemed to work.


You've received a Second Chance Offer on eBay item #160991305314: 1921 E121 American Caramel Babe Ruth PSA Graded GOOD 2 Show Details
From eBay
To Ian T clarke
eBay sent this message to Ian T clarke.
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
You've received a Second Chance Offer



Dear Ian T clarke,
You've been given a second chance to buy 1921 E121 American Caramel Babe Ruth PSA Graded GOOD 2, which you placed a bid on for $ 2,999.00 on Mar 17, 2013 . To purchase this item, reply to this email or just contact the seller at: jrenv.engineer@gmail.com

1921 E121 American Caramel Babe Ruth PSA Graded GOOD 2
Price: $ 2,999.00

Seller:
Seller E-mail:

new-england-jeweler (1052)
jrenv.engineer@gmail.com


Ask Seller A Question





Additional Information about Second Chance Offers:
The seller, new-england-jeweler, is making this Second Chance Offer because the high bidder was either unable to complete the transaction or the seller has a duplicate item for sale. The selling of this item through Second Chance Offer is in compliance with eBay policy; you will be able to exchange Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for all eBay services associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection.

Act Now - This Offer Ends Soon !
To take advantage of this opportunity, please act quickly. This offer ends on April 5, 2013, 3:55 pm. To buy this item contact the seller at: jrenv.engineer@gmail.com

To learn more about Second Chance Offer, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/personal_offer.html




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[BuffettFan]

I received the exact same email on a T206 Carolina Brights earlier today. Very legitimate looking email with the same email address you referenced (jrenv.engineer@gmail.com). Since I had bought from this seller before I sent a confirming email to him (still waiting a response) but have not responded to the jrenv.engineer@gmail.com address.

Never had this happen before either...

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by BuffettFan

I received the exact same email on a T206 Carolina Brights earlier today. Very legitimate looking email with the same email address you referenced (jrenv.engineer@gmail.com). Since I had bought from this seller before I sent a confirming email to him (still waiting a response) but have not responded to the jrenv.engineer@gmail.com address.

Never had this happen before either...

Nuts. I sent messages to both the real seller and the jrenv address and heard back from the real seller immediately.. still have not heard back from jrenv. Agree, the email does look pretty legitimate though, aside from the afore mentioned red flags. I think it would definitely get iffier/more suspicious once payment options are presented, since I doubt this schmuck would be able to accept standard Paypal payment through eBay's checkout. I suspect he'd ask for payment via Paypal (or other method) using his personal email address and off eBay... unless he can manipulate his page with an "accept offer" tab that pays his email directly. My email didn't have this as an option.

I still have no idea how they got my personal info. This sucks, but 2nd chance offers are already suspicious as is, so hopefully no one takes the bait.

[itjclarke]

I got an email from someone else this happened to. That makes 3 in one day, all from the same email address. Anyone else have this happen? Anyone else at all concerned? I'm going to contact eBay, but want to see if anyone here has an opinion about this. It seems much more targeted than the standard phony eBay or Paypal security email prompting you to login. This used specific user bidding information from real/recent auctions. What would stop this guy from falsely accepting your best offer?? Or sending a false invoice?

[Leon]

I have had a good second chance offer or two. I have had more bogus ones. I would report it.

[Bridwell]

I received this similar offer, from a different seller but the same email for me to reply to!!!

You've been given a second chance to buy 1911 T3 TURKEY RED CHRISTY MATHEWSON PSA 3(MK) NO CREASES N.Y. 1ST HOFER CLASS, which you placed a bid on for $ 1,377.77 on Mar 25, 2013 . To purchase this item, reply to this email or just contact the seller at: jrenv.engineer@gmail.com


1911 T3 TURKEY RED CHRISTY MATHEWSON PSA 3(MK) NO CREASES N.Y. 1ST HOFER CLASS
Price:
$ 1,377.77
Seller:
Seller E-mail:
david_slomer (4012)
jrenv.engineer@gmail.com
Ask Seller A Question


Additional Information about Second Chance Offers:
The seller, david_slomer, is making this Second Chance Offer because the high bidder was either unable to complete the transaction or the seller has a duplicate item for sale. The selling of this item through Second Chance Offer is in compliance with eBay policy; you will be able to exchange Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for all eBay services associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection.

Act Now - This Offer Ends Soon !
To take advantage of this opportunity, please act quickly. This offer ends on April 5, 2013, 4:09 pm. To buy this item contact the seller at: jrenv.engineer@gmail.com

[itjclarke]

How is he getting the bidder's identities? Is he in our accounts, the sellers' accounts, or somehow able to access encrypted data from eBay?

I understand the idea of bogus 2nd chance offers as a result of shilling, or other shenengens.. But not where the emailer has private information.

2nd chance offer from this same email address is now at 4 for today. I'm not as worried about the 2nd chance offer, as I am this guy doing something more clever. Maybe he emails as the seller asking for a sale offline to eliminate seller fees.. Maybe he falsely accepts best offer and gets clever enough to create a good PayPal link to his email address.

To Add: all 4 instances are 2nd chance offers on different sellers' items

[npa589]

I got one today as well, for a T3 Walter Johnson.

[itjclarke]

For those who got one today, is this the first? If this is something that happens everyday, then oh well.. But if this is the start of something new, this sucks. This guy has information he shouldn't have. And again, if he starts sending "your best offer has been accepted" emails, and better masks his email address, I might get a little more nervous.

[peterose4hof]

Are all these items from the same seller?

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

Are all these items from the same seller?

Different sellers, but each email/notice traces back to the same email address (listed in above posts), which in the notices is provided as the sellers'. This single person is posing as the seller offering a 2nd chance offer on a closed item that we've actually bid.

To add: I do not think any of the sellers are involved

[Blinky]

Hi gang, I am not a baseball card enthusiast, but I have been getting a 2nd chance offer from this same person jrenv.engineer@gmail.com. I did a google search of his email and your forum came up so I wanted to post my info from this individual. It even went so far as to inform me to look in my spam folder to find is email correspondence. I think this is a definite scam, but a good one as he had me tricked until I found your forum. Here is what was sent to me:


from:

engineer

reply-to:

jrenv.engineer@gmail.com

to:

date:

Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 8:48 PM

subject:

Re: You've received a Second Chance Offer on eBay item #300872690518: VTL Ultimate Pre-amp w/phono cable (90 degree DIN plug to XLR connectors inc)

mailed-by:

m3kw2wvrgufz5godrsrytgd7.apphosting.bounces.google .com

signed-by:

engineer.wor44.info

[Eric72]

The specificity involved with the emails people are receiving is fairly alarming. If this is a hacker/scammer situation, they appear to have worked out a somewhat sophisticated little operation that will almost certainly dupe quite a few people.

Another possibility is that there may be someone running rogue at eBay.

Either way, it may be time to sound the alarm before too many people fall prey to this.

Best Regards,

Eric

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Eric72

The specificity involved with the emails people are receiving is fairly alarming. If this is a hacker/scammer situation, they appear to have worked out a somewhat sophisticated little operation that will almost certainly dupe quite a few people.

Another possibility is that there may be someone running rogue at eBay.

Either way, it may be time to sound the alarm before too many people fall prey to this.

Best Regards,

Eric

Couldn't agree more, this is much more specific and targeted than the spam eBay/PayPal mails that try to steal you login/password.. And have nothing in common with seller sending a bogus 2nd chance offer after shilling his own auction.

The information this guy is gathering is secret to the bidders and sellers, and if he can get this.. I assume he figure out how to send false invoices, or best offer acceptance emails. The red flags were are there, but I think he'll probably only get better at hiding them.

I've connected eBay, have not heard back yet

[Eric72]

If this indeed turns out to be someone attempting to commit fraud through email, I believe the laws regarding mail or wire fraud would be applicable.

If I also understand correctly, each use of the email to make this attempt would be a separate violation of said laws. Thus, the criminal sanctions in such a case could be staggering.

So, here is my question. Does actual economic damage need to occur, or does the mere attempt to defraud constitute a violation of the law?

If the mere attempt is a crime, this joker could be teeing themself up for some very serious legal issues.

[itjclarke]

Regardless of how severe his crime, law enforcement has all sorts of ways to locate people using false email addresses (see David Patreaus scandal). So far at least 5 received this notice from email the same yesterday.

Lets get it done FBI!

[jtschantz]

Got one today also listing the same email address. Glad someone alerted me to this post!

[ctownboy]

Instead of contacting eBay why don't you just call the FBI??

eBay may or may not do anything about it and if they do, it is most likely THEY will contact the FBI. Even if they do do something about it, they very well might take their sweet time in getting around to it.

David

[itjclarke]

My bro in law is a former ASUSA and has worked many cases with the FBI/NTSB/etc. I've forwarded him all the info I have and will see what he thinks.. clearly if anything comes of it, I'll stop posting.

Eric- per your question, I talked to my wife. She said he is definitely already breaking laws, and it is a fraud case regardless of whether anyone bites on his offer and loses money... and the fact that it covers several states does up the ante. She does not have much/any experience with all the various internet protection laws that would probably apply here.. and she's at her dad's, helping him pack for a trip, so was not eager to get too deep into discussion about baseball card thievery I know there are a lot of lawyers on this board though, so if anyone has other opinions please feel free to offer them up.

[itjclarke]

changed thread title to omit the item I was contacted about.. clearly this extends far beyond the E121 Ruth I was watching.

[Blinky]

I contacted the original seller directly about the item I had been bidding on. Evidently, he already contacted the police. Here is what was sent to me in correspondence. I really have no idea if this is real or part of the scam for certain. The bothersome thing for me is this scammer got my private email address from hacking into Ebay. I was sent a bogus "invoice" that looked exactly like a real Ebay invoice but then asked me to send a money wire transfer to a bank in Czechoslovakia instead of using Paypal. I don't think Ebay cares about these scammers in the least. There is an individual that posts the same scam listings week after week and they sometimes stay on Ebay for days on end. I used to "report" them but I just stopped because I see it keep happening over and over. Ebay could stop it if they really wanted to.

Here is what was sent to me by the original seller:

"Let me fill you in. The buyer insisted on picking up the unit the night his payment went through. Turns out he lived fairly close by. He came to my house, & inspected the unit, which I had sitting on my coffee table in my living room. He was satisfied with the unit. We both signed a reciept detailing the sale. I even threw in 8 tube damping rings. While I picked up the box & held the front door, he followed me out of my house. He opened his trunk & I placed the unit inside. He drove off. When I returned to the house I discovered the receipt was missing from the coffee table where I had set it down to pick up the box. I then realized the buyer must have pocketed it when my back was turned. I immediately tried to call him, but his voice mail was deactivated. Right after that, I then called E-Bay to explain what happened. I was assured they believed me & I had nothing to worry about. Of course, the buyer then contacted E-Bay, said he refused the unit when he was at my house and demanded a refund. Which E-Bay granted. Needless to say, this made me extemely unhappy, with both the buyer & E-Bay. $1300 is alot of money to lose! The next day my wife coordnated all the correspondence between the buyer, E-Bay & myself and we took it to the police, expalined the situation & filed a police report. In the days that followed, a local detective confronted the buyer. Was invited into the buyer/crook's house & searched his trunk. The detective told the buyer/crook that I wasn't going to let this go. Finally, the detective said he would sit in his car for 5 minutes & if he (buyer/crook) returned the unit in that time, we would agree not to prosecute. Presto, he brings it out. Unfortunately, 5 screws & a mount post for the phono stage were detached. Which were recovered. I insisted that E-Bay agree to pay to ship it back to VTL & for whatever else is needed to get the unit back to tip top condition. I'm waiting on the written confirmation now. Hopefully, I will ship it soon."

[itjclarke]

Crazy story Blinky. I've gotta think the weird seller story is just a second separate strange, semi believable tale.. But not related to the Czech thing. I admit, it's late and I got pretty ADD trying to read through his story. Anyway, back to the Czech thing, that's interesting. I didn't get that far with him because I was pretty sure my offer was fake from the start.

It's weird to me that he's able to so adeptly get secret bidder info (our identities, our personal email addresses, coupled with our bid amounts.. The fact he's able to do this is also my main worry) and to construct a reasonably believable eBay email with mostly working links, but seems so very clumsy in the execution of the payment step. He's going to have trouble if that's how the only way he can receive payment.. Maybe that works in 2001?? I'm not an IT guy at all, but if he can somehow work PayPal payment into this scam, he'll have a much better chance to succeed.

[Leon]

I have a little bit of experience with understanding how to go about getting justice for these types of crimes. I am no lawyer and this is only my semi-experienced opinion. From what I have read I don't know think this rises to an FBI level. If someone is out money then they should first go to their local police dept. and file a report. Those authorities have a duty to help their local citizens. I have asked all of these questions, in this thread, to many law enforcement agencies over the years. Is attempted fraud a crime? I think so. But it's not the type of crime that will draw heavy law enforcement. It's when someone has been defrauded, and the more the worse it is, when they get more involved. And to get the FBI involved it usually needs to be more widespread and more damages than 4-5 figures.

[itjclarke]

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly... If there were drugs/guns/etc, it would garner more attention. As is, there's a guy trying to dupe a bunch of dudes that buy old card board. Probably not at the top of the FBI most wanted list. I do really hope someone gets this guy before he figures out how to make money on this though.

[thenextlevel]

I just got one of these for a second chance on a Cracker Jack Joe Jackson that I just bid on with PWCC.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I got a phony 2nd chance offer today, supposedly from eBay. It was an item I'd recently bid (only because my watch list was maxed out), and the offer seemed impossible since my bid was about $2K less than the final price. I contacted the seller immediately through eBay and he confirmed he did not send this offer. I've never had this happen before and am not sure how the scammer got my personal email address. Not sure if he's hacked the seller's account (do sellers have access to all bidders' personal email addresses?) or mine.. or if this email is just a totally bogus creation based on info the scammer is able to access publically through eBay (not sure how since bidders are anonymous, let alone display personal email/contact info).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1921-E121-Am...#ht_642wt_1047

- Below is text from notification email, I'll try to add a screen shot later.. it looked pretty legimate, only the sender email address was fishy- ebay@ebay.sky56.info, the item link did not work, and when responding it went directly to a personal email address- jrenv.engineer@gmail.com). All other links (seller page, other ebay links, etc) seemed to work.


You've received a Second Chance Offer on eBay item #160991305314: 1921 E121 American Caramel Babe Ruth PSA Graded GOOD 2 Show Details
From eBay
To Ian T clarke
eBay sent this message to Ian T clarke.
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. Learn more.
You've received a Second Chance Offer



Dear Ian T clarke,
You've been given a second chance to buy 1921 E121 American Caramel Babe Ruth PSA Graded GOOD 2, which you placed a bid on for $ 2,999.00 on Mar 17, 2013 . To purchase this item, reply to this email or just contact the seller at: jrenv.engineer@gmail.com

1921 E121 American Caramel Babe Ruth PSA Graded GOOD 2
Price: $ 2,999.00

Seller:
Seller E-mail:

new-england-jeweler (1052)
jrenv.engineer@gmail.com


Ask Seller A Question





Additional Information about Second Chance Offers:
The seller, new-england-jeweler, is making this Second Chance Offer because the high bidder was either unable to complete the transaction or the seller has a duplicate item for sale. The selling of this item through Second Chance Offer is in compliance with eBay policy; you will be able to exchange Feedback with the seller and will be eligible for all eBay services associated with a transaction, such as fraud protection.

Act Now - This Offer Ends Soon !
To take advantage of this opportunity, please act quickly. This offer ends on April 5, 2013, 3:55 pm. To buy this item contact the seller at: jrenv.engineer@gmail.com

To learn more about Second Chance Offer, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/personal_offer.html




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That is the same email I got for a second chance offer on tuesday. It was an SGC 84 Mullin from David B. Vintage

[AMBST95]

I know some have already reported this to eBay. Any response on their end yet?

[tschock]

Do these offers appear in you Messages inbox within your ebay login? Or are you just getting the notices sent to your email?

[jcmtiger]

I sold something on ebay last week, buyer did not send payment. Checked his feedback, he has a total of 3, does not send payment. I'm going to send a 2nd chance offer, this will be a valid one. So, do you think the 2nd guy will buy?

Joe

[ezez420]

I posted the one for the D304 Brunners Matthewson that was listed. The email the person used was jengineer70@gmail.com

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by tschock

Do these offers appear in you Messages inbox within your ebay login? Or are you just getting the notices sent to your email?

It does not appear in your eBay messages, which is a drop dead red flag, but I it looks good and I think that most, like I, work through these email notices (invoices, messages, but now NOT 2nd chance offers) through our email rather than re-accessing the message through eBay's site.. especially when doing it from a mobile device.

eBay's response was pretty weak. 2x form letters telling me this is just a spam/phish mail trying to get me to give away my login information, and that their system has not been compromised in any way. I spent an hour on the phone with them, telling them it's clear this guy is getting private information that goes above/beyond phish mass mails. I can't imagine he's hacked everyone's account and feel like he's got to be getting this information by another method... maybe akin (but much more involved) to our .ca method of seeing BIN or Best Offer purchase prices, but where he can see an auction's bidders... he then somehow gets our personal email addresses.

[Eric72]

I still think this could be someone at eBay running rogue...directly using proprietary information or leaking it to the fraudster.

Alternatively, perhaps they were hacked.

Either way, eBay should be way more serious about this. It's only a matter of time before somebody gets ripped off.

[bobbyw8469]

I have been toying/emailing the guy letting him think I was a dumbass who is wants this card badly and cant wait to send him money. Apparently the scam is originating out of Russia. How he found out that I was an underbidder is a complete mystery to me.....

[itjclarke]

One of the earlier posters had said his was Czechoslovakia. Please let us know how far you get. It sounds to me like things really start to come apart for him at the payment step.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I have been toying/emailing the guy letting him think I was a dumbass who is wants this card badly and cant wait to send him money. Apparently the scam is originating out of Russia. How he found out that I was an underbidder is a complete mystery to me.....

Good idea. I just did the same.

[peterose4hof]

Frankly, I'm shocked at Ebay's casual response to this problem. It's evident by the type of personal information this person or persons possesses that one of two things is happening. Someone has hacked into Ebay's database or an insider (ie. Ebay employee) is running this operation. Either way this is a very serious problem that could affect 1000s of Ebay members and cost tens of thousands of dollars.

Wake Up Ebay!!!

[ctownboy]

If you want eBay to pay attention, find out who their largest shareholders are and send those companies/people a message letting them know that this is going on and that eBay management is brushing this off as no big deal.

Give specifics to show that the computer system has been hacked or that someone on the inside is giving out private information.

You moaning and complaining to a low ranked employee wont cut it. Complaining to a large shareholder will get more attention to a possibly major problem.

David

[CMIZ5290]

The info that I got on the scam was that he wanted money wired to a bank in Great Britain....

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

The info that I got on the scam was that he wanted money wired to a bank in Great Britain....

.... Yes, the scam definitely seems to come apart at the payment step. If he figures out how to be half as clever with payment as he was with getting the bidding info, personal emails, and sending a pretty good looking 2nd chance email it could get much worse. I've got a couple simple ideas as to how he could do this differently, but no sense posting that. One can only assume he'll get better with time, as long as he doesn't get caught.

[Blinky]

I am not surprised at the lack of a response from Ebay. That is why I did not bother to contact them. Ebay is a typical American big business. They only care when something affects THEIR bottom line. A couple of hackers/scammers does not affect their earnings. There is a hacker that posts fake listings as "Buy it Now" and uses the same examples in bicycles, cameras, stereo equipment, musical insruments, etc,. over an over again. He hacks into legitmate accounts and does it weekly. He has been active for over a year. I quit reporting the fraud listings when I would notice them (it got easy because he uses the same listings) but it would take days for his listings to disappear. That means to me Ebay doesn't care. They could stop this person. But they don't. They could deal with this scammer we are all discussing but they won't. It is just a part of "doing business" for a multi-billion dollar company like Ebay. It is not important enough to them. If it was, these people and their scams would be short lived. Ebay has the resources.

[CW]

I also received one of these today, this one from jrengineer70@gmail.com.

BTW, if you bid on an auction and are outbid, you can see who the high bidder is through the completed listings search at eBay. But for a 2nd chance offer, it should be impossible for a third party to directly email an underbidder. Something is definitely fishy over at eBay.

[itjclarke]

Well he's still at it.. Not the trickiest change of email addresses on his part. Thanks for sharing, and posting the screen shot.

Curious, did any of the previous posters investigate/go any further into payment process? Is he still looking for wire transfer to account overseas?

[Shoele$$]

Just received this same exact bogus 2nd chance offer today. My first time ever seeing it. Same jrengineer email address too. Been a busy guy lately

[jwilson6204]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

That is the same email I got for a second chance offer on tuesday. It was an SGC 84 Mullin from David B. Vintage

Probably not a good idea to go for the 2nd chance offer on the Ruth since it's sitting in my safe. I received a similar 2nd chance offer for a T3 Mathewson. Again, it seemed odd since my offer was well below the final price (and the email wasn't through Ebay).

(first post. I meant to capture the quote regarding the Ruth that was above the quote that was included)

[jdmeltz]

It looks like this is getting some attention:

http://money.msn.com/saving-money-ti...7-7698d83edde7

[bobbyw8469]

I wish they would catch that con artist.

[itjclarke]

I wonder if they used N54 to research their article

[rjackson44]

ive gotten a few i ignore them as they are scams ,,and never accept more money for a lot you sold the check will bounce ,,scams are everywhere its sad.

[CW]

From the article posted above:

An internet security expert said he doubts this round of scams is the result of eBay being hacked. The most likely scenario, according to McAfee Online Security Expert Robert Siciliano is that the scammer is also a seller and, therefore, can see bidders IDs and has matched those IDs to email addresses.

McAfee Online Security Expert Robert Siciliano does not give a plausible scenario. Even if you are a seller, you can't see bidder's IDs of auctions you do not run yourself. Also, how would a seller possibly match the ID with an email address? It is much more likely that eBay has an insider lifting this information and supplying it to the scammers as a team.

Of course, if eBay does find out they have a mole, it will definitely not be made public, so we will likely never find out how this is happening.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Eric72

The specificity involved with the emails people are receiving is fairly alarming. If this is a hacker/scammer situation, they appear to have worked out a somewhat sophisticated little operation that will almost certainly dupe quite a few people.

Another possibility is that there may be someone running rogue at eBay.

Either way, it may be time to sound the alarm before too many people fall prey to this.

Best Regards,

Eric

Sorry to quote myself; however, I still contend that someone at eBay doing nefarious things is a strong possibility.

They are a publicly traded company. Investors and stakeholders deserve answers here...just my two cents.

Best Regards,

Eric