What would you do ?

[Popcorn]

Sold a lot of cards so it went straight to the buyer. Used registered mail and it was signed for by 4-5 different usps workers along the way. Insured for thousands. Buyer received the package says it is open and the registered tape was peeled off.

Local usps manager said it would have been noticed and returned to me if that was the case.

I’m no longer selling lots or sets. Everything will be singles so eBay receives it first.


- Unbelievable

[realbigfatdog]

As a 20 year letter carrier, I can tell you first hand how seriously we handle registered mail. If I was handed a registered package or letter in the morning by a clerk (which I have to sign for at the time I recieve it) and I notice that it is damaged or had been tampered with, I'd immediately make it known to the postmaster or supervisor BEFORE I even signed to accept it for delivery. As a carrier, once we sign a piece of registered mail out in the morning, WE are responsible for it. If said piece goes missing, WE are responsible to cover it's value. Carriers can have their wages garnished to cover the insured cost. So unless the carrier who delivered your package was completely stupid, I cant see them tampering with it. Not with a registered package, no way. Just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[pawpawdiv9]

Sounds like more questions to ask the buy here...
1- Did the buyer sign for the package??
2-Should be proof of whom signed for it from USPS. RIGHT??
3- Maybe his neighbor got the package, ripped it open not noticing it was not his??
4- Is the buyer asking for a refund/ items missing?

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

Sounds like more questions to ask the buy here...
1- Did the buyer sign for the package??
2-Should be proof of whom signed for it from USPS. RIGHT??
3- Maybe his neighbor got the package, ripped it open not noticing it was not his??
4- Is the buyer asking for a refund/ items missing?

It was picked up at the post from the buyer. They left him a pick up slip and yes he signed for it.

He’s asking for a return/refund saying he never opened it. I asked him if the cards are inside and he said he won’t open to look, just wants to return.

I can tell from the pictures that the clear tape under the register mail tape was cut. So clearly someone looked in the box.

[MichiganMan24]

So annoying. Total jerk behavior. At the end of the day probably not much you can do, but as someone who's sold cards in the past, there's nothing more frustrating than dealing with a customer who wastes your time. Best of luck dealing with it.

[Exhibitman]

Buyer's a liar: unless you are forced to refund (like via eBay) hang tough and tell him to go **** himself. I'd also go to your local post office and start an investigation. They may have images of the package and his signature.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

It was picked up at the post from the buyer. They left him a pick up slip and yes he signed for it.

He’s asking for a return/refund saying he never opened it. I asked him if the cards are inside and he said he won’t open to look, just wants to return.

I can tell from the pictures that the clear tape under the register mail tape was cut. So clearly someone looked in the box.

He signed for it.

Did he receive it and walk out of the Post Office?

If so, I’m inclined to agree with Adam’s line of thinking. Get the Post Office involved. Oh yeah, and tell the buyer to go pound sand.

[babraham]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

I asked him if the cards are inside and he said he won’t open to look, just wants to return.

[Empty77]

I'm a buyer, not a seller, and so can comment from that perspective and say everything on that buyers side is messed up---it's not even a credible lie. If it had been tampered with before he got it then the clerk at pickup would have needed to deal with it and he never would have signed for it. Makes no sense.

[Exhibitman]

He opened it and now he's trying to steal the content and send it back. What's the eBay name of this assclown? Time to blackball someone.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Empty77

I'm a buyer, not a seller, and so can comment from that perspective and say everything on that buyers side is messed up---it's not even a credible lie. If it had been tampered with before he got it then the clerk at pickup would have needed to deal with it and he never would have signed for it. Makes no sense.

Yes I’m 90-10 the buyer is the one who opened the box. When I asked if the cards were okay he said he’s not touching it and wants a return. Was a very odd and suspicious response. You would think he would refuse the package at the clerks desk if it looked open.

[jayshum]

Did he file a return request yet through eBay? If so, what are they doing? Is eBay still pro buyer no matter what really happened?

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Did he file a return request yet through eBay? If so, what are they doing? Is eBay still pro buyer no matter what really happened?

We are still going back and forth. Today is the escalation day for eBay to step in. I’m not sure if I should escalate it or wait for him to. I’m talking to two different people i learned yesterday. The guy who bought the cards and his wife. They take turns it looks like communicating.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

We are still going back and forth. Today is the escalation day for eBay to step in. I’m not sure if I should escalate it or wait for him to. I’m talking to two different people i learned yesterday. The guy who bought the cards and his wife. They take turns it looks like communicating.

That's strange. Any idea why that's happening?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

We are still going back and forth. Today is the escalation day for eBay to step in. I’m not sure if I should escalate it or wait for him to. I’m talking to two different people i learned yesterday. The guy who bought the cards and his wife. They take turns it looks like communicating.

I'm surprised you haven't contacted eBay already. If it appeared someone were trying to defraud me out of thousands of dollars, I'd be communicating with the platform directly.

I'd also be speaking with the Postmasters at both Post Offices, the one where I mailed it and the one where the individual signed for the package.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I'm surprised you haven't contacted eBay already. If it appeared someone were trying to defraud me out of thousands of dollars, I'd be communicating with the platform directly.

I'd also be speaking with the Postmasters at both Post Offices, the one where I mailed it and the one where the individual signed for the package.

I contacted ebay right after the return was opened, also spoke to my local usps manager & filed a claim. I was hesitant to file a claim because the buyer won’t tell me what’s in the package but the manager said file it right away.

I know whenever I’ve have an issue with a purchase I escalate the claim immediately if I think I’m in being scammed and want my money back. It’s odd to me they haven’t escalated the claim.

They won’t even tell me if the box is empty or still has the cards in it. If it has the cards I would gladly refund them just to move on from this crap.

[Popcorn]

I looked the buyer up on instagram, Facebook ect and they don’t look like scammers. Not that scammers have a particular look but it’s why I’m not 100-0 and more like 80-20 that it could have been a postal employee who opened the box. I’ve shipped maybe 100+ registered mail packages and never had a single issue.

[Popcorn]

Okay it’s been days, Guy won’t tell me if the cards are in the box or escalate the claim. Said they are going to the post office, not sure what that would do but any information is welcome. Claim is filed but usps will no way pay out any insurance on a delivered usps registered package. So bummed about this whole thing it is keeping me up at night.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Okay it’s been days, Guy won’t tell me if the cards are in the box or escalate the claim. Said they are going to the post office, not sure what that would do but any information is welcome. Claim is filed but usps will no way pay out any insurance on a delivered usps registered package. So bummed about this whole thing it is keeping me up at night.

So after 5 days, the guy hasn't done anything? Sorry you have to deal with something like this.

[Eric72]

Has the buyer's eBay ID been named in this thread?

I'm sure there are quite a few Net54 members who would appreciate that info.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Has the buyer's eBay ID been named in this thread?

I'm sure there are quite a few Net54 members who would appreciate that info.

I’ll send it PM, they have a store I looked up. Looks kinda like a pawn shop-jewelry store. I’m just bummed by this whole thing. Registered mail has been like a full proof type of delivery until now. I don’t blame usps for this just wish eBay would make all transactions above a certain amount go through them so this is not possible.

The reason for the claim was a damage package. The package from the photos looks fine. Only the top has a slight piece of the registered mail tape pealing up from the package.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

I’ll send it PM, they have a store I looked up. Looks kinda like a pawn shop-jewelry store. I’m just bummed by this whole thing. Registered mail has been like a full proof type of delivery until now. I don’t blame usps for this just wish eBay would make all transactions above a certain amount go through them so this is not possible.

The reason for the claim was a damage package. The package from the photos looks fine. Only the top has a slight piece of the registered mail tape pealing up from the package.

Plenty of threads on the board complain about eBay having the authentication process, but it does help protect the seller as well as the buyer.

[Leon]

If I were you I would try to reach a Postal Inspector. They will be interested in fraud with a registered package.

If you believe you've been targeted by a scam involving the U.S. Mail, you can get help by contacting your nearest Postal Inspection Service office in one of three ways: Call 1-877-876-2455.
.

[realbigfatdog]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I were you I would try to reach a Postal Inspector. They will be interested in fraud with a registered package.



If you believe you've been targeted by a scam involving the U.S. Mail, you can get help by contacting your nearest Postal Inspection Service office in one of three ways: Call 1-877-876-2455.

.

Agreed. The postal inspectors dont f*** around. Best course of action.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I were you I would try to reach a Postal Inspector. They will be interested in fraud with a registered package.

If you believe you've been targeted by a scam involving the U.S. Mail, you can get help by contacting your nearest Postal Inspection Service office in one of three ways: Call 1-877-876-2455.
.

Will do thank you.

[packs]

I haven't been in this situation as the seller but I have been in a similar situation as a buyer and can share how that seller handled things.

I purchased a very inexpensive ($180) item from a major auction house that I had previously spent over 10K with over the years. The item never made it to me but showed up as "delivered" in the postal system. However, this item did not carry any kind of signature confirmation and there was no way to prove delivery other than a person marked it as delivered.

The AH refused to refund me because "it was delivered" and when I asked them why THEY didn't purchase signature confirmation, they said it was because the item wasn't high value enough and effectively made it MY problem.

I will never purchase anything from them again.

However, in this situation a person DID sign for the item, acknowledges they received it, the postal service acknowledges there were no issues with the package at any point, so I don't think you have any obligation or that there is anything necessarily to "right" about what happened, especially since this person isn't even sure there is a problem by refusing to look in the box.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Plenty of threads on the board complain about eBay having the authentication process, but it does help protect the seller as well as the buyer.

Agreed.

From the seller's perspective, it takes "...I got an empty box..." out of the scammers' playbooks, as well as quite a few other tricks of their trade.

I'm sure the fraudsters still try their crap even when something goes through authentication, though.

[Popcorn]

Going back and forth today:

This guy is completely obsessed with the condition of the register mail tape. I have asked him 3 times are the cards okay and he will not answer. He’s acting like because a piece of the mail tape popped up from the edge he should get a refund immediately with no questions asked. The box has no real damage. You can see the stamps from usps when it was sealed together.

All his messages are about the condition of the box’s tape, not even about the box or the cards! And the time usps took to deliver. I offered a refund if he has the cards but no response.

This is so !!. I’m back to 99-1.

Sorry to post my boring problems on here but hopefully it’s a warning to sell individual cards only or consign sets-lots to a consigner to avoid future losses.

[bobw]

All his messages are about the condition of the box’s tape, not even about the box or the cards!

Even if the tape popped up loose a bit.....could whatever you sent have been removed from the box?

Is it possible to post the pic of this loose tape?

[Popcorn]

Wow this guy states he does not know who picked it up even though he has it in his possession. Every message from him is complaining about the tape like I said and nothing to do with the cards. Said he was out of town.

It was completely sealed otherwise they would not have stamped it and if it did pop loose it would have been returned. Amazingly the bottom is fine and the other part of the top is fine. Only where someone cut the box open is no longer sealed.

[Popcorn]

Found two threads on blowoutcards calling this guy out for his shenanigans.

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1244205&highlight

[raulus]

Thanks for the links. Just added him to my blocked list.

This is precisely the sort of goon that the eBay authenticity guarantee is intended to thwart.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by packs

The item never made it to me but showed up as "delivered" in the postal system. However, this item did not carry any kind of signature confirmation and there was no way to prove delivery other than a person marked it as delivered.

The AH refused to refund me because "it was delivered" and when I asked them why THEY didn't purchase signature confirmation, they said it was because the item wasn't high value enough and effectively made it MY problem.

This happened to me a few years back on eBay, I think on like a $150 card. I used to get stuff delivered at my mailroom at work, never had a problem in years until this one, probably on hundreds of packages that went off without a hitch. It got scanned “delivered”, but when I went to pick it up, the mailroom guys didn’t have it. Between the carrier and mailroom guys, I’m about 90% sure someone saw an opportunity guessing what it was and just pocketed my item. There was no sig confirmation, but a postal person tried to get me a GPS location on the scan, which I was eventually told sorry - the loading dock concrete there means they couldn’t get a GPS location. Uh huh. Never had stuff mailed to work again after that.

To my surprise, even though it showed delivered, eBay DID stand up for me and refunded me anyway. I’m guessing they would not do that repetitively, but it was nice to just be taken care of that way after I opened a case, with really not many questions asked.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jchcollins]

& yes, overall to the OP - this sounds heavily suspicious / like buyer’s fraud to me. I’d call their bluff and refuse a refund, especially if you have proof of a registered mail delivery.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Found two threads on blowoutcards calling this guy out for his shenanigans.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1459032

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...=goldustnrouge

Jeez, this guy is awful. Now he's graduated to tampering with Registered Mail? Somebody should scare the living bejesus out of this guy.

I'll run to block on Ebay right now.

[Exhibitman]

[name removed at request of OP] now blocked. What a creep.

[philliesfan]

Blocked on both of my ebay accounts.

[jayshum]

So did he open the box yet?

[Popcorn]

Looks like eBay is having him return the package. From what I’ve read if it is returned without the cards and is empty my options are to file a police report and a fraud investigation with usps.

So NO P.O. Boxes, NO Canada shipping along with NO lots or sets. Everything through eBay first from now on.

The worse the economy gets the more this crap will happen imo.

[Exhibitman]

The economy is robust; you just happen to have come across a scam artist. They come out of the woodworks when cards gat hot and expensive.

You can do international sales via eBay's global shipping program (or whatever they call it nowadays). if your stuff gets to an eBay domestic shipping center intact, eBay repacks it and takes all the delivery risk from there. That's what I use.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The economy is robust; you just happen to have come across a scam artist. They come out of the woodworks when cards gat hot and expensive.

You can do international sales via eBay's global shipping program (or whatever they call it nowadays). if your stuff gets to an eBay domestic shipping center intact, eBay repacks it and takes all the delivery risk from there. That's what I use.

I’ll look into the international but whenever I buy something from Canada there’s no AG for the card.

I also requested that the package be returned to eBay for inspection but they denied it.

[Popcorn]

The 30 cards that were purchased:


[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Popcorn]

The bottom 24 tobacco cards backs are correct with the fronts in the scans.

The top 6 were flipped in the scanner so the Cy Young bare hand is a sovereign back and the McGann is a cycle back. The Brown is a Sweet Caporal and the Keeler is a Piedmont with paper loss.

[sb1]

As a collector and dealer with nearly fifty years of using the USPS and many, many Registered packages coming and going, I can assure you 100% no postal employee would accept or deliver the package shown with the edge cut open(or any of the postmarked area compromised).

As others indicated the Postal Inspector will take the ball and run with it, presumably having a very lengthy(or not) conversation with said purchaser, who will wish he had never tried this little trick.

[mikecala98]

If you want to DM me the tracking # I can see if the signature is on there.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by sb1

As a collector and dealer with nearly fifty years of using the USPS and many, many Registered packages coming and going, I can assure you 100% no postal employee would accept or deliver the package shown with the edge cut open(or any of the postmarked area compromised).

As others indicated the Postal Inspector will take the ball and run with it, presumably having a very lengthy(or not) conversation with said purchaser, who will wish he had never tried this little trick.

Yes I’m still waiting on the return. If the cards are missing I intend to go through all the steps with usps fraud department and the police.

I have also used it for many years with 0 problems.

[Popcorn]

Originally Posted by mikecala98

If you want to DM me the tracking # I can see if the signature is on there.

Tracking sent, thank you!

[mikecala98]

Originally Posted by Popcorn

Tracking sent, thank you!

No message.

[Popcorn]

Sent, I selected private message. Try messaging me and I’ll reply thanks.

If the return box is empty I’ll post the pics on the main page and hopefully if someone notices one for sale anywhere they will lmk.

[Kutcher55]

It appears the character you are dealing with (gold dust etc) has three tables at this weekend’s Shriners card show outside Boston. I will be attending Friday and will check out the merch. If I see any of your cards I will take some photos and share them with you, not that I expect them to be stupid enough to display them but ya never know.