T206 460 Backs

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I am curious as to why the 460 series backs are considered more scarce than there counterparts. I thought the 150 series was the shortest run of the 3 series. The Sovereign, Cycle and obviously the Broadleaf draw a good premium over there 350 counterparts. Other 460 series are tougher to tell because they are not listed on back, are they just as scarce but not known because of fact it is not listed on the back?

Lee

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Posted By: JimB

Good questions. Now I want to check mine when I get home to see how the numbers flesh out. One reason I think 150s were thought to be more scarce (and I think they are compared to 350s) is that I believe most of the portraits (but not all) only came in the 150 series. This is one of the reasons the portraits are a bit more expensive than the other poses of HOFs. It is probably also because some people just like the portraits more. For me, it really depends on the cards. For example, although the red and green portrait Cobbs are classics, my favorite is the bat off. I think it is a beautiful card. The bat on is my least favorite of the four by far. Any other opinions on portraits vs. non-portraits among T206 HOFs?
JimB

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The Cobb is the only exception to that I can think of right now. He looks too benign in the portraits and the colors of the bat off are great.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

b/c they were only issued for a very short term in 1911 during the "phasing out" period of T206 production. Uzits and Lenox backs fall into this 460 category - explaining why they are tougher. The Uzit, according to the letter Mastronet sold from the company, was only issued very briefly - they actuall got a late start in 1911 issuing the cards in packs (very near the end of production).

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Posted By: Greg

I was wondering if there was a definitive list of which cards came with which series backs. How would such a list be created? It's funny about pricing on 150/460 series in the past 5-8 years though. I was a dealer/collector in the early 90's, and the 150 series cards were always more desireable than 460 cards. The "Southern Find" changed that I think. I had a number of collectors who filled their high-end want lists because of that find (loaded with 150-350's) but nobody had very many NM or better 460 series items. Cards that come to mind as being "very 460" are, Bender w'trees, Gandil, Camnitz throwing, Wheat, Tinker bat on, Mullin, Cobb bat off etc. The printing quality of the three series are pretty distinctive (I'm in the printing ind.) and I think early 150's are the best, but some of the 460 cards are particularly nice. I had the good luck to be able to own around 30-40 of the Southern Find T206's and they had exceptional (rediculous really) registration that really showed depth perception, perspective, etc. Does anyone have Southern Find 06's to show or any info on the find itself? Is Brian Goldner (Battle Creek Michigan) still around?
-Greg B.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Greg:

There's my list of which cards came with which backs:

http://rdwyer.250free.com/T206Backs.html

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Somewhat recently I remember a post where one of the board contributors compiled a list of different backs that they had come across in the past 5 years and also in a one year period. I really wish I would have marked the article because it was a great contribution of information. Does anyone remember this thread?

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Posted By: Greg

Richard, thanks for the extensive list! What is the science behind it? How did you come up with it? Just curious. Another question for the board, are the Gloria Rothstein shows still ongoing in the NY area?
Greg B.

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Posted By: mabjae

Greg,

There is a Gloria Rothstein show at the White plains County Center that starts tomorrow (3-9 p.m.) and runs through Sunday. I hope to make it one of the days. Is there usually some good stuff at these shows? I work around the corner from the WPCC, but have never been able to go to one of the shows.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Greg:

Using a Macintosh program called Hypercard and the excel listing from this forum, I was able to come up with that list. I simply wrote a script that sorted the info in a different way.

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Posted By: Greg

The last time I was at a Rothstein show was 1993, the last one I set-up to sell at was 1992 (I got Hager kicked out of that show circuit by the way). The White plains show was usually the highlighted show of the year for Rothstein, and I would guess it would still be worth visiting. Back then the shows were White plains, Pier 52, Raritan center (NJ), and one at Giants stadium (Hagers last). I had some spectacular stuff back then, wish I had the foresight to keep some.
Richard, my question was more about how you know which cards were available with which backs, not so much the construction of the list itself.
Greg B.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Info was taken from T206museum.com. Lew Lipset originally suplied the info, T206museum updated it later.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Ok, It is agreed that 460 has a shorter print than 150, then how come the 460 onlys don't carry a premium like the 150 onlys?

Is it just a knowledge thing that the general collector does not know this?

Lee

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Posted By: barrysloate

The 460's in Broadleaf carry a huge premium; in other series, such as American Beauty, they show up with more frequency and they haven't as of yet caught the collector's fancy. Not all 460's, or in some cases 350-460's, are particularly hard to find.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

that were issued ONLY in the 460 Series - correct (like Neal Ball (Cleveland and George Bell (Follow Through))? Not the 460 backs themselves. If that is the case, I will tell you they are scarcer than other cards issued in two series or the 350 series only and are undervalued! In fact, when I started back collecting a little over a year ago, obtaining substantial numbers of these 460 Series ONLY cards was my goal after obtaining several copies of the 150 Series ONLY cards. You don't hear much at all about the 460 Series ONLY cards, but I personally think that some of them are scarcer than the 150 Series ONLY cards and are undervalued (I don't care to let everyone know now that I collect caramels!).

It would not hurt anyone to hoard them some nice graded examples of these 460 Series ONLY cards at their current price levels.