PSA Grading at its best

[wuwei]

I know there are several posts on the topic but I had to share this listing.

Buy the card not the grade but does anyone actually think this card is NM-MT? I'm pretty sure if I popped the card from the case and sent it in, it would come back a 6 or 7oc.

While I'm stirring the pot, notice who has listed the card. I bet he gets $3000 or more.

Anyone else have any examples of crazy grades?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-1...item5670b2485c

Dan Vasey
Collecting 58 & 60 Topps Baseball

[gnpaden]

unreal. one of the reasons I do not use PSA

[wilkiebaby11]

wrong section... but i'll comment!
There even seems to be a slight wrinkle on the left side between the Mickey and the brim of the hat. This had to have been placed in the wrong holder completely!

This card is cert #23994673
...Next in line is #23994674 and it's a 58 Mantle PSA 8

PSA had to have accidentally printed up 2 PSA 8's instead of an 8 and a 4, which is what this card should be!

TISK TISK

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by wilkiebaby11

wrong section... but i'll comment!
There even seems to be a slight wrinle on the left side between the Mickey and the brim of the hat. This had to have been placed in the wrong holder completely!

I too saw that wrinkle. I didn't know if I was just seeing a hair, but it really does look like a wrinkle. Also the corners are soft. Either PSA messed up big or someone switched the card.

[jcc6252]

Steve, awesome detective work, I think you unearthed the problem! Now the question is: If you notified Probstein, would they have enough integrity to pull the card and send it back to PSA to get it corrected?

[cammb]

What do those bidders see that we don't. The answer? The holder, not the card.

[Hammerin'Hank]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

Steve, awesome detective work, I think you unearthed the problem! Now the question is: If you notified Probstein, would they have enough integrity to pull the card and send it back to PSA to get it corrected?

Probstein is probably not the owner of the card. Its probably a consignment.

[vintagetoppsguy]

The bottom right corner is really bad (you can really tell from the back scan). The cards is a PSA 4 O/C in my opinion.

[Cowboy Fan]

I submitted BLAZING 1972's and they came back 6 or 7 so yea this kinda pisses me off

[pclpads]

Wow! Just Wow! Rookie grader . . . first day on the job . . . first card graded.

[Cowboy Fan]

I just posted it on CU forum....Anybody wanna bet I'm suspended by end of day?

[Leon]

To everyone in this thread, just a friendly reminder of our most important rule, which is at the top of every page-

"If you give an opinion of a person or company your full name needs to be in your post."


thanks

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by wilkiebaby11

This card is cert #23994673
...Next in line is #23994674 and it's a 58 Mantle PSA 8

PSA had to have accidentally printed up 2 PSA 8's instead of an 8 and a 4, which is what this card should be!

TISK TISK

The fact that the previous card (23994673) is an 8 is irrelevant. The next card after the Mantle is a PSA 7 (23994675).

Here is a list of the 2 cards before and after the Mantle.

23994672 - BUD BYERLY - PSA 7
23994673 - CHUCK TANNER - PSA 8
23994674 - MICKEY MANTLE - PSA 8
23994675 - LINDY McDANIEL - PSA 7
23994676 - BOB KEEGAN - PSA 8

I don't understand your point of a mix up. Which card was Mantle mixed up with???

[Cowboy Fan]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

Steve, awesome detective work, I think you unearthed the problem! Now the question is: If you notified Probstein, would they have enough integrity to pull the card and send it back to PSA to get it corrected?

I messaged him asking that very thing. I'll post if he replies.

Bill Stair

[wilkiebaby11]

no need to read twice....

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by wilkiebaby11

I dont think it was a mix up, where an 8 is now in a 4 holder and a 4 is in this 8 holder. I'm assuming that the two cards were from the same submission, that seems safe to assume. I am guessing that the grader accidentally wrote down or typed in the system 8 twice before the labels being printed off ...or... they looked at the same Mantle twice and graded "both" as an 8, not ever seeing the more obviously lower grade one.

In the end, I'm trying to chalk this up to a clerical mistake, not a mistake in that the grade actually think that this is worthy of an 8.

That's why I found the fact that two Mantles were graded back to back an important piece of this puzzle.

Foot in mouth.... I obviously took it upon myself to type in the incorrect numbers like I was assuming the grader did... Two Mantles were not submitted.

I'm wrong in that aspect, though the 23994673 which is actually a TANNER is an 8, so maybe the grader accidentally marked the Mantle incorrectly. O well. I dont know why I am defending PSA...

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by wilkiebaby11

they looked at the same Mantle twice and graded "both" as an 8, not ever seeing the more obviously lower grade one.

In the end, I'm trying to chalk this up to a clerical mistake, not a mistake in that the grade actually think that this is worthy of an 8.

That's why I found the fact that two Mantles were graded back to back an important piece of this puzzle.

Steve, where do you see two Mantles? The cert #s do not show two Mantles.

Edit: NM, I just saw your post right before mine.

[Cowboy Fan]

Here is the reply I got when asking the seller if they were going to pull the auction as it is grossly and incorrectly graded.

"we sell 23,000 auctions a month,,,,if its graded, then we sell it as is"

Guess the seller cares more for the $$$$ than his integrity in the hobby...Sad.

Bill Stair

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Cowboy Fan

"we sell 23,000 auctions a month,,,,if its graded, then we sell it as is"

That says a lot about his character.

So, if he receives a fake, counterfeit or forgery, he's going to sell it as long as it's graded? It's amazing how people can still defend this guy.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That says a lot about his character.

So, if he receives a fake, counterfeit or forgery, he's going to sell it as long as it's graded? It's amazing how people can still defend this guy.

NOT surprised people sending their stuff for HIM to sell

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Cowboy Fan

I just posted it on CU forum...

The thread lasted about 30 minutes on CU before they 'poofed' it. It looks like the original auction has been 'poofed' as well. Hopefully someone from PSA contacted Probstein and asked him to remove the listing so they could re-evaluate the card and assign it a proper grade.

Edited: It looks like eBay removed the listing. Had Probstein ended the auction early, it would still show as a completed listing. Since there is no record of it at all, that means eBay must have removed it.

[xplainer]

If I was a scammer, I would use PSA to grade and Probstein to sell them.
No doubt about it.

Push it through PSA, have Prob list it, and shill the crap out of it.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by xplainer

If I was a scammer, I would use PSA to grade and Probstein to sell them.
No doubt about it.

Push it through PSA, have Prob list it, and shill the crap out of it.

That's crazy talk right there......

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by xplainer

If I was a scammer, I would use PSA to grade and Probstein to sell them.
No doubt about it.

Push it through PSA, have Prob list it, and shill the crap out of it.

Jimmy- you're from my neck of the woods, but I think you are way off base here. I'm sure, however, Rick could care less about your comments. If you are down on PSA by the way, you might want to take a peak at the difference in resale value between them and SGC, especially high graded vintage cards....

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I'm sure, however, Rick could care less about your comments.

Truer words have never been spoken...

[CMIZ5290]

I have seen numerous threads about Rick Probstein, and, here we are again. News flash, if you don't trust the guy, don't bid on his auctions, period... What is so difficult about this?? If it was such a big red flag, why in the hell doesn't Ebay do anything about it? What does that say about them if there were issues??

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I have seen numerous threads about Rick Probstein, and, here we are again. News flash, if you don't trust the guy, don't bid on his auctions, period... What is so difficult about this?? If it was such a big red flag, why in the hell doesn't Ebay do anything about it? What does that say about them if there were issues??

Ebay does not do anything about it because Probstein makes them a lot of money. What does that say about ebay? It say's a lot. Not shocked that both Probstein and ebay are more concerned about making money than they are integrity.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by cardsfan73

Ebay does not do anything about it because Probstein makes them a lot of money. What does that say about ebay? It say's a lot. Not shocked that both Probstein and ebay are more concerned about making money than they are integrity.

I guess my question is, why do we keep feeding them money? Is there no legal recourse on the accusations against Ebay and Probstein?

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Jimmy- you're from my neck of the woods, but I think you are way off base here. I'm sure, however, Rick could care less about your comments. If you are down on PSA by the way, you might want to take a peak at the difference in resale value between them and SGC, especially high graded vintage cards....

+1

PSA is the best. SGC is also good but I hate their numerical grading system..a 70 is really a 5.5? Say what?!! Major mistake when they decided on that lame system.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

you might want to take a peak at the difference in resale value between them and SGC

The difference is resale values is because of FOOLS that bid on flips rather than cards. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

If you didn't see the card, you missed what I consider the most over graded card that I have ever seen. It was way OC and all 4 corners were soft - not touched, soft - and had a crease. It looked like a 4 OC, yet there were several bidders. Why would people bid on such an ugly card? It's simple and has nothing do with resale value. They were bidding on the flip, not the card.

You can sit there all you want and talk about resale value. Those FOOLS are not bidding on cards, they are bidding on flips.

EDIT: For clarification, I'm not calling people that bid on PSA cards FOOLS. I'm saying that when all things are equal (two nearly identical cards, same grade, different holders), the only reason that the PSA cards outsell SGC cards is because some FOOL is paying for a flip.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am guessing the Mantle was a clerical error. It happens.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The difference is resale values is because of FOOLS that bid on flips rather than cards. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

If you didn't see the card, you missed what I consider the most over graded card that I have ever seen. It was way OC and all 4 corners were soft - not touched, soft - and had a crease. It looked like a 4 OC, yet there were several bidders. Why would people bid on such an ugly card? It's simple and has nothing do with resale value. They were bidding on the flip, not the card.

You can sit there all you want and talk about resale value. Those FOOLS are not bidding on cards, they are bidding on flips.

EDIT: For clarification, I'm not calling people that bid on PSA cards FOOLS. I'm saying that when all things are equal (two nearly identical cards, same grade, different holders), the only reason that the PSA cards outsell SGC cards is because some FOOL is paying for a flip.

David- just for kicks, would you rather have an SGC 84 Cobb, or a PSA 7 Cobb when you are trying to raise big money?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

The difference is resale values is because of FOOLS that bid on flips rather than cards. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

If you didn't see the card, you missed what I consider the most over graded card that I have ever seen. It was way OC and all 4 corners were soft - not touched, soft - and had a crease. It looked like a 4 OC, yet there were several bidders. Why would people bid on such an ugly card? It's simple and has nothing do with resale value. They were bidding on the flip, not the card.

You can sit there all you want and talk about resale value. Those FOOLS are not bidding on cards, they are bidding on flips.

EDIT: For clarification, I'm not calling people that bid on PSA cards FOOLS. I'm saying that when all things are equal (two nearly identical cards, same grade, different holders), the only reason that the PSA cards outsell SGC cards is because some FOOL is paying for a flip.

So money doesn't matter??

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

David- just for kicks, would you rather have an SGC 84 Cobb, or a PSA 7 Cobb when you are trying to raise big money?

Kevin, it wouldn't matter. I would hope to get out of the card close to what I paid for it. Sure, the PSA 7 Cobb would sell for more money. The part you're clearly overlooking is that it COST ME MORE MONEY when I initially purchased it. Likewise, if it were an SGC 84 Cobb, it would bring less money. Then again, it COST ME LESS MONEY when I initially purchased it. You're only looking at resale value. You're not considering the cost.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Kevin, it wouldn't matter. I would hope to get out of the card close to what I paid for it. Sure, the PSA 7 Cobb would sell for more money. The part you're clearly overlooking is that it COST ME MORE MONEY when I initially purchased it. Likewise, if it were an SGC 84 Cobb, it would bring less money. Then again, it COST ME LESS MONEY when I initially purchased it. You're only looking at resale value. You're not considering the cost.

I give up.....holy cow....

[ullmandds]

its deja vu all over again!

[CMIZ5290]

no reply coming Pete, I dont want to run this in the ground. Good luck to you...

[Greenmonster]

Here's my surprise from PSA today. A 1907 Opening Day ticket stub from South End Grounds. A before and after scan of what I sent to PSA and what they returned. I'm not happy.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Greenmonster

Here's my surprise from PSA today. A 1907 Opening Day ticket stub from South End Grounds. A before and after scan of what I sent to PSA and what they returned. I'm not happy.

You have to be kidding?

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by Greenmonster

Here's my surprise from PSA today. A 1907 Opening Day ticket stub from South End Grounds. A before and after scan of what I sent to PSA and what they returned. I'm not happy.

WOW! That is sad. Do you have any recourse?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Greenmonster

Here's my surprise from PSA today. A 1907 Opening Day ticket stub from South End Grounds. A before and after scan of what I sent to PSA and what they returned. I'm not happy.

Is that a 'mechanical error' or a 'clerical error'? Those two excuses always seem to be the answer to PSA's problems.

[Greenmonster]

Originally Posted by gregr2

WOW! That is sad. Do you have any recourse?

I'm at a loss about recourse...I'm speechless. I can't believe they'd just send it back like this, no prior communication, no note....nothing.

[cardsfan73]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

I guess my question is, why do we keep feeding them money? Is there no legal recourse on the accusations against Ebay and Probstein?

I don't give any money to Probstein & I never will. As far as ebay goes I spend less and less of my card collecting money there (not that miss me) and find myself buying more from folks here at net54.

Legal recourse? I am not a lawyer so I can't really say. Probstein makes ebay money so they won't do anything about him. As far legal recourse against ebay I am sure if some publicity starved DA wanted to take on the case he could and make a name for him/herself. Or perhaps a class action lawsuit? Yeah and the settlement will be free ebay bucks!


edit to add... Wow... that's horrible what happened to that ticket!

[botport]

Mr. Schneider,

Very saddening. In my opinion probably worthy of its own thread....
I hope you are satisfied with the outcome when and if that day comes.

My best to you,

Frank