HELP: Player identification

[Bucs9]

I would appreciate help to identify the players in the attached c. 1906 snapshot (other than Honus Wagner). It is a challenge.
Thanks

[Cliff Bowman]

First-Fred Clarke? Second-Bob Ganley? Third ? Fourth in black-Joe Nealon? Fifth-Claude Ritchey? Sixth-Deacon Phillippe?

[Scott Garner]

Lou,
I believe that the 2nd player from the left is, in fact, no-hit pitcher Deacon Phillipe.

[Bucs9]

Do you mean 2nd from right facing the picture?

[Bucs9]

Cliff,
Doesn't look like Clarke to me.

[Bucs9]

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

[Scott Garner]

2nd from the left in the photo is Deacon Phillipe

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

I'm with you on #2 being Ganley, poor guy wasn't much to look at. He was 5'7".

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

I'm with you on #5 being Ritchey, I think that one is a slam dunk. He was 5'6".

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

#6 is a little taller than Wagner (5'11"), I narrowed it down to Phillippe (6'0") or Willis (6'2"), I just thought it resembled Phillippe more. Phillippe is the second photo and Willis is the third photo. ETA now I can't decide which one it is.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

As soon as I saw a picture of Joe Nealon I thought it was a match for #4 in black. Nealon was 6'1" and has a brutal story in what happened in the next couple of years after the photo was taken.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

I couldn't make a guess on #3, I think you nailed it on Gibson (5'11")

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

My guesses were: L to R

Leever, Ganley, Gibson, ? , Ritchey, Wills of Phillippe, Wagner

#1 is on the left, Leever (5'11") is on the right. I think you're right it's Leever.

[lumberjack]

I really don't think the third guy from the left is Gibson. The others...dead on IMO.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

#6 is a little taller than Wagner (5'11"), I narrowed it down to Phillippe (6'0") or Willis (6'2"), I just thought it resembled Phillippe more. Phillippe is the second photo and Willis is the third photo. ETA after putting the photos side by side I now think it's Willis.

I stand corrected. I believe you have Phillipe correctly identified, 2nd from right in the picture.
Nice detective work!

[Cliff Bowman]

Here are a couple more each of Phillippe and Willis, the first two are Phillippe and next two are Willis.

[Cliff Bowman]

I have to go with Vic Willis.

[bjerome]

I have to go with Willis. Three things stand out to me. The first shape of the mouth and narrowness of it. Second is the way the light glistens off the upper point of the ear when he's looking to his left or our right and third is his pointy nose.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bjerome

I have to go with Willis. Three things stand out to me. The first shape of the mouth and narrowness of it. Second is the way the light glistens off the upper point of the ear when he's looking to his left or our right and third is his pointy nose.

Willis doesn't have the prominent cheekbone though.

[bjerome]

That can really all depend on when the pictures were taken. The studio photo perhaps prior to the season and he's a little more filled out from not playing ball every day. Not uncommon to lose a little baby fat playing ball every day all summer long.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bjerome

That can really all depend on when the pictures were taken. The studio photo perhaps prior to the season and he's a little more filled out from not playing ball every day. Not uncommon to lose a little baby fat playing ball every day all summer long.

Don't players eat (to stay strong and healthy) during the season?

[Bucs9]

Thanks to all of you for the help. Keep the guesses coming!!

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

I would appreciate help to identify the players in the attached c. 1906 snapshot (other than Honus Wagner). It is a challenge.
Thanks

I believe the image is from 1907 and features Ed Abbaticchio, Deacon Phillippe, Pat Flaherty, Joe Nealon, Claude Ritchey, maybe Alan Storke, and Honus Wagner.

Edited to add: Some of these IDs must be wrong; see posts 26 and 27.

[Bucs9]

Is that from your observation or have you seen the image before with the players identified as such?

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Bucs9

Is that from your observation or have you seen the image before with the players identified as such?

I have previously seen this image, but not with identifications. The IDs are my own (sorry I hadn't made that clear). I'm pretty certain about most of them, including Abbaticchio. He was only with the Pirates 1907-1909. Since he is wearing a different uniform in the photo, it seems likely that this is from spring training of 1907, when the players would have been wearing their old uniforms from 1906.

Edited to add: I wrote this before being reminded that Abbaticchio was received in a trade for Ritchey, Flaherty, and Clarence Beaumont. Duh!

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by RUKen

I believe the image is from 1907 and features Ed Abbaticchio, Deacon Phillippe, Pat Flaherty, Joe Nealon, Claude Ritchey, maybe Alan Storke, and Honus Wagner.

That combination isn't possible and it cannot be 1907 because of a trade that happened December 11 1906: the Pirates traded Claude Ritchey, Patsy Flaherty, and Ginger Beaumont to the Boston Nationals for Ed Abbaticchio. I don't think there is any disputing the fifth player in the middle is Claude Ritchey.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

That combination isn't possible and it cannot be 1907 because of a trade that happened December 11 1906: the Pirates traded Claude Ritchey, Patsy Flaherty, and Ginger Beaumont to the Boston Nationals for Ed Abbaticchio. I don't think there is any disputing the fifth player in the middle is Claude Ritchey.

AARGH! I agree. I withdraw my proposed date. It's not Abbaticchio on the left (maybe Leever as you proposed, or possibly Tommy Sheehan), but I still feel confident that Flaherty is in the picture. Storke debuted late in the 1906 season, so he is probably not the man next to Wagner.

[RUKen]

In an attempt to redeem myself for mistakenly claiming Ed Abbaticchio to be in the picture, I am attaching below a couple of images of Pat Flaherty to support my identification of him in the group photo.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by RUKen

In an attempt to redeem myself for mistakenly claiming Ed Abbaticchio to be in the picture, I am attaching below a couple of images of Pat Flaherty to support my identification of him in the group photo.

I think you're right on it being Flaherty and not Gibson. Flaherty didn't play for the Pirates in 1906 but was in their organization all year.

[RUKen]

I've been looking through the Pittsburgh newspapers to see who was in spring training with them in 1906. Players who trained with them but did not appear in a regular-season game included Frank Oberlin, Harry Newmyer, and W.B. "Doc" Moskiman. I believe that Moskiman is a good match for the player second from right in the group photo.

[RUKen]

FWIW, the image of Bob Ganley published in the February 18, 1906, edition of the Pittsburg Press shows him in a white cap. He played part of the 1905 season with the Pirates and part with Des Moines of the Western League. Players usually wore their uniforms from the previous season in spring training. The Pirates had not had white caps since 1900, so it seems unlikely to me that Sam Leever (who had been a Pirate since 1898) would be wearing anything other than a dark-colored Pirate cap. I suggest that the player on the far left may be Ganley, and the second player is Deacon Phillippe. I've attached Ganley images below. (The image on the far right is the 1906 Press image.)

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by RUKen

FWIW, the image of Bob Ganley published in the February 18, 1906, edition of the Pittsburg Press shows him in a white cap. He played part of the 1905 season with the Pirates and part with Des Moines of the Western League. Players usually wore their uniforms from the previous season in spring training. The Pirates had not had white caps since 1900, so it seems unlikely to me that Sam Leever (who had been a Pirate since 1898) would be wearing anything other than a dark-colored Pirate cap. I suggest that the player on the far left may be Ganley, and the second player is Deacon Phillippe. I've attached Ganley images below. (The image on the far right is the 1906 Press image.)

I realize the angle can be deceptive, but aren't Ganley's ears too low relative to his eyes?

[Beercan collector]

So The guy standing next to Honus Wagner is not Fred Clarke ?

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Beercan collector

So The guy standing next to Honus Wagner is not Fred Clarke ?

Definitely not Clarke.

[Cliff Bowman]

As I stand right now: #1 possibly Leever, #2 no doubt Ganley, #3 no doubt Flaherty, #4 no doubt Nealon, #5 no doubt Ritchie, #6 maybe Willis, #7 Wagner.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I realize the angle can be deceptive, but aren't Ganley's ears too low relative to his eyes?

In both of the Ganley images I had posted previously, his head is angled up a bit, so that his ears are low relative to his eyes. Below I have attached an image with his head angled down more.

Edited to add: I no longer think this is Ganley. See the next post.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

As I stand right now: #1 probably Leever, #2 most likely Ganley, #3 most likely Flaherty, #4 no doubt Nealon, #5 no doubt Ritchie, #6 maybe Willis, #7 Wagner.

Regarding #1, I think the cap is important. In the early 1900s, men did not keep a collection of baseball-style caps like many do now. They wore baseball caps only to play baseball. Almost invariably, in photos from this era, players wore the cap from the team's uniform that year, except in spring training, when they wore their cap (and uniform) from the previous year. Player #1 is not wearing a 1905 Pittsburg cap, and Leever had played for Pittsburg since the 1890s. However, I no longer think it is Ganley.

I have attached below a 1905 newspaper image from the Boston Globe of Vic Willis looking to his left and smiling. He is wearing a Boston home uniform cap, which is not a match, but I believe that the Boston road cap for at least a part of the season may have been light colored without stripes. I now think Willis is a good match for #1, and I stand by my selection of Moskiman for #6. Player #2 is probably Ganley.

Player #1 / Willis smiling

[RUKen]

I concede now that this is most likely Ganley.

Ganley / Player #2 / Phillippe

[RUKen]

I'm convinced that this is Moskiman. Willis had a long face, longer than #6's face looks to me, and I believe I've matched smiling Willis to #1 (see post #37).

Moskiman / Player #6 / Willis

[JollyElm]

Threads like this are beyond frustrating. Nothing personal against anyone, but it seems if presented pictures of themselves, a lot of members would identify them as someone else.

Anyway, I lightened the shadows and upped the contrast a bit, so here's a clearer version of the OP's pic...

Wagnerpiclightened2.jpg

One thing is clear, the guy on the left has a Ricardo Montalbán thing going on.

[Bucs9]

It is really interesting and fun to hear all of your responses. It prompted me to continue researching for their identities. At the same time . This type of exercise can be really frustrating. Right?

[sporteq]

Here ya go

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by sporteq

Here ya go

Ummm, the photo is not from 1901, and every ID is wrong except for Ritchey and Wagner. (To start, Jimmy Williams jumped to the Baltimore Orioles before he began spring training in 1901, Bones Ely was released by the Pirates in late July of that year, and Ed Doheny signed with the Pirates after Ely's release. Also, Tommy Leach was five inches shorter than Honus Wagner.) That caption was written by someone within the last few decades. What we need is a contemporary newspaper image with IDs, but I've checked newspapers.com and haven't found this image.

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by RUKen

Ummm, the photo is not from 1901, and every ID is wrong except for Ritchey and Wagner. (To start, Jimmy Williams jumped to the Baltimore Orioles before he began spring training in 1901, Bones Ely was released by the Pirates in late July of that year, and Ed Doheny signed with the Pirates after Ely's release. Also, Tommy Leach was five inches shorter than Honus Wagner.) That caption was written by someone within the last few decades. What we need is a contemporary newspaper image with IDs, but I've checked newspapers.com and haven't found this image.

I got it from here.. they did article on Wagner called, “ Honus Wagner’s Rookie Year, 1895”

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by sporteq

I got it from here.. they did article on Wagner called, “ Honus Wagner’s Rookie Year, 1895”

That was posted by John Thorn on his blog in 2017. John should have known better, but maybe he was jet-lagged like I was when I made my first post in this thread last week.

[sporteq]

Originally Posted by RUKen

That was posted by John Thorn on his blog in 2017. John should have known better, but maybe he was jet-lagged like I was when I made my first post in this thread last week.

Yup, thee John Thorn baseball historian.. baseball is his life. Must have been a late night for him.

[Cliff Bowman]

My bad, wrong year .

[Cliff Bowman]

My bad, wrong year .

[Cliff Bowman]

My bad, wrong year .

[JollyElm]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the Ricardo Montalbán-esque guy at the far left not only seems to be older than the other guys, but he's also wearing a different hat and his bizarre turtleneck doesn't really jibe either. Perhaps he's from a different team?